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H.266 Video Codec promises 50% size reduction over the current H.265

DuckDodgers
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Fraunhofer issued a press release that is making a pretty interesting claim, as the h.265 video of yours, can be halved in size, at the same quality. Fraunhofer's successor to H.265/HEVC for encoding would be H.266, also referred to as Versatile Video Coding (VVC) and offers significant improvements.

 

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After devoting several years to its research and standardization, Fraunhofer HHI (together with partners from industry including Apple, Ericsson, Intel, Huawei, Microsoft, Qualcomm, and Sony) is celebrating the release and official adoption of the new global video coding standard H.266/Versatile Video Coding (VVC). This new standard offers improved compression, which reduces data requirements by around 50% of the bit rate relative to the previous standard H.265/High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) without compromising visual quality. In other words, H.266/VVC offers faster video transmission for equal perceptual quality. Overall, H.266/VVC provides efficient transmission and storage of all video resolutions from SD to HD up to 4K and 8K, while supporting high dynamic range video and omnidirectional 360° video.

 

Today, compressed video data make up 80% of global Internet traffic. H.266/VVC represents the pinnacle of (at least) four generations of international standards for video coding. The previous standards H.264/Advanced Video Coding (AVC) and H.265/HEVC, which were produced with substantial contributions from Fraunhofer HHI, remain active in more than 10 billion end devices, processing over 90% of the total global volume of video bits. Both previous standards were also recognized by collectively three Emmy Engineering Awards for contributing substantially to the progress of television technology.

 

Improved compression is always better, the only downside is that the increased complexity will require new hardware codecs for GPUs and mobile SOCs. Software encoding/decoding of HVEC is already quite heavy on modern multi-core CPUs and VVC will make it only worse.

 

Source:

https://newsletter.fraunhofer.de/-viewonline2/17386/465/11/14SHcBTt/V44RELLZBp/1 

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49 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

Can't wait to see how high end PCs choke on encoding h266 video lmfao

High end PCs will have graphics cards new enough to do that with hardware acceleration, it's the old stuff that cries when they see the new standard

 

46 minutes ago, Benji said:

Yeah. I don't get that they always push out new video codecs instead of optimising the previous encoders and decoders first. Sure, they'll save bandwidth, but what are they worth if their adoption takes relatively long? I mean, there aren't even really any commonly used hardware decoders (besides apparently Samsung 8K video processor in the 8K QLED TVs) for the VP9 replacement AV1 that YouTube started to roll out some time ago, and now another party is bringing out yet another new standard that is probably "standard" in 2-3 years? You'll end up constantly buying new hardware just for your system to not choke while playing back a video...

How are you going to optimize stuff already implemented through ASICs? Unless you're talking about tuning variables used in profiles but you can do that yourself.

 

Besides I believe h264 to still be the norm, only using the new standard on high res and frame rate stuff in which the target audiences would have newer PCs anyway

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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18 minutes ago, Tedny said:

16k videos incoming, boi 

Hey procedural technologies have been making 15 minutes video with 64kb or less for decades. Wonder when someone will convert an actual video to a procedural function so we get super high quality videos for less than 1 megabyte. A 3 hour 16k video 120 fps HDR for 600 kb... yes please.

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Like others have said H.265 has license issues but I would choose H.265 over VP9 or AV1 any day of the week.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Can't wait to cram nearly flawless transcode of the criterion collection onto a sd card.

 

No details, but this and av1 are necessary, web video compression is still pretty horrific, what good is 4k or 8k when a bluray at half the resolution has more real world detail free from artifacts.

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don't really care maybe it will be a deliver codec but please camera makers don't make it a recording one

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Still a God awful codec that I hope fails spectacularly just like HEVC. Until they make it completely royalty free the MPEG can go fuck themselves. 

 

AV1 is the future. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Like others have said H.265 has license issues but I would choose H.265 over VP9 or AV1 any day of the week.

Why? AV1 I get, because of a lack or optimization in encoders and lack of hardware decoders, but VP9 is as good as HEVC. 

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I could see this getting pushed hard by phone data companies even if it sucks because it means they can cheapen their infrastructure buildout.  Even if it sucks and has problems if they can do the hardware decoder and get through the licensing garbage companies like t-mo or Verizon or whatnot might only sell phones that had it just so they could advertise “faster movies” even if all it did was pass the cost onto the consumer in the form of a stupidly expensive hardware decoder because they wouldn’t actually have to DO anything. 

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5 hours ago, DuckDodgers said:

Fraunhofer

Man these guys have come a long way since mp3

( if you don’t know the Frauenhofer Institut developed the mp3 format for compressed digital music)

Hi

 

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hi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Still a God awful codec that I hope fails spectacularly just like HEVC. Until they make it completely royalty free the MPEG can go fuck themselves. 

 

AV1 is the future. 

 

 

 

Why? AV1 I get, because of a lack or optimization in encoders and lack of hardware decoders, but VP9 is as good as HEVC. 

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i tried to play a video yesterday and this popped up ... excuse me microsoft

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

 

Why? AV1 I get, because of a lack or optimization in encoders and lack of hardware decoders, but VP9 is as good as HEVC. 

Performance as of now. AV1 would be nice to get rid of all the bullshit H.265 has over it but encoding a video in H.265 already takes way longer than H.264 but AV1 is a nightmare. At least on my hardware and workflow. But I'm hoping it will get better as tech improves

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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As a video editor, any new high-compression format frightens me, but I can see the potential for delivery, hopefully the compression won't destroy the video.

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6 hours ago, Benji said:

Yeah. I don't get that they always push out new video codecs instead of optimising the previous encoders and decoders first. Sure, they'll save bandwidth, but what are they worth if their adoption takes relatively long? I mean, there aren't even really any commonly used hardware decoders (besides apparently Samsung 8K video processor in the 8K QLED TVs) for the VP9 replacement AV1 that YouTube started to roll out some time ago, and now another party is bringing out yet another new standard that is probably "standard" in 2-3 years? You'll end up constantly buying new hardware just for your system to not choke while playing back a video...

most samsung smart TVs since 2017-8 can do H256 natively 

 

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By the time it comes out, I'll probably be waiting for something worthwhile to replace my 1070...hopefully it'll fit within my GPU upgrade cycle.

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8 hours ago, DuckDodgers said:

Fraunhofer issued a press release that is making a pretty interesting claim, as the h.265 video of yours, can be halved in size, at the same quality. Fraunhofer's successor to H.265/HEVC for encoding would be H.266, also referred to as Versatile Video Coding (VVC) and offers significant improvements.

 

Quotes

 

Improved compression is always better, the only downside is that the increased complexity will require new hardware codecs for GPUs and mobile SOCs. Software encoding/decoding of HVEC is already quite heavy on modern multi-core CPUs and VVC will make it only worse.

 

Source:

https://newsletter.fraunhofer.de/-viewonline2/17386/465/11/14SHcBTt/V44RELLZBp/1 

Just think how much worse things would be if AMD hadn't kicked Intel in the nuts and forced them to up their core counts.

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27 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Just think how much worse things would be if AMD hadn't kicked Intel in the nuts and forced them to up their core counts.

Think how much better it would be if there was real competition and that happened in 2005

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4 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

unknown.png

i tried to play a video yesterday and this popped up ... excuse me microsoft

Never seen that before. Figured Windows includes the more common codecs by default, unless they’re charging for a software decoder maybe? I’ve a lot of anime and shows encoded via x265 as well. 
 

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1 minute ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

How long will it take until we start using auto-encoder neural networks to compress video?

a long time. much easier to used fixed with asics

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10 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Like others have said H.265 has license issues but I would choose H.265 over VP9 or AV1 any day of the week.

I find H.265 to be useless for movies/TV - it cuts off the shadows and highlights way too harshly to save bandwidth. Really shows on an OLED screen. Great for CCTV, for the space saving though... I expect H.266 to even more dire tbh.

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11 hours ago, Benji said:

Yeah. I don't get that they always push out new video codecs instead of optimising the previous encoders and decoders first. Sure, they'll save bandwidth, but what are they worth if their adoption takes relatively long? I mean, there aren't even really any commonly used hardware decoders (besides apparently Samsung 8K video processor in the 8K QLED TVs) for the VP9 replacement AV1 that YouTube started to roll out some time ago, and now another party is bringing out yet another new standard that is probably "standard" in 2-3 years? You'll end up constantly buying new hardware just for your system to not choke while playing back a video...

Because you can't optimize something that's already in hardware. It's a published standard. You basically have to come out with a new codec every 5 years to keep up with the increase in frame rate and resolution of hardware.

 

The bigger problem is that these codecs that Google keeps developing, are not ending up in hardware, not even hardware running Android, so the battery life suffers on Android devices, but not Apple devices unless the source doesn't meaningfully support it on purpose (eg youtube) 

 

Funny enough, this is one front in the war on standards that google is actually losing, and we can thank Adobe Flash for that. H264 got "in" because all these foolish companies decided to make video streaming sites based on using the flash player as nothing more than a software h.264 player, and adobe enabled it, and cut their own throat on the product.

 

Apple, realizing this, forbade flash from running on the iPhone. This sealed flash as a "player"'s fate. 

 

So Apple has had support for hardware-supported video playback since it's inception, where as android, has not, and stubbornly refuses to (and didn't exist until Android 6.0 despite underlying hardware having support for it since 3.0) Android still does not support h.265 or VP9 as encoders.

 

https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/media/media-formats

 

Yeah, it took 3 generations of Android devices before playing video from youtube was possible. It was actually Apple who twisted MPEG LA's arm into establishing h.264 as the HTML5 video standard, but petty differences between the browser vendors who tried to drown h.264's use on the web and the W3C's standard html5 resulted in NO standard. And thus we can blame google for yet another thing they tried to use their monopoly powers for evil. (Google Chrome and Firefox can also be blamed for the lack of http/2 support in browsers, thus not being enabled in servers by default, and the lack of any other compression algorithms being developed for compression of http connections.) 

 

The end result here is that your battery life on a mobile device has largely been destroyed by choices google made in making a mobile device the worst thing to stream video to. Can't send an unencrypted connection even if the video is encrypted, can't send a hardware-supported codec because only software codecs are supported, lack of context-awareness results in compressing and encrypting video and audio streams twice, thus having to be decrypted twice in software and decompressed twice in software.

 

What would really solve these problems is not "yet another codec" but for the hardware vendors to put FPGA space on their SoC to update fixed hardware codecs rather than trying to ship fixed hardware codecs that ultimately don't get used because google doesn't want to pay the patent licence.

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6 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

i tried to play a video yesterday and this popped up ... excuse me microsoft

There was a method at one point to get the codec for free (might even still work, IDK). 
See video below from Barnacules about it.

Spoiler

 


All I know is that HEVC works fine for me via VLC/MPC/Plex without having that codec installed (although I do use K-Lite/ Combined Community Codec Pack.) maybe give them a try?

But on point, it sucks that you have to pay for the codec. Its on most modern hardware already, you should be able to use it. I feel like the royalty was paid for when you bought the hardware(I know that's not how it works, but it's how I feel).
I'd be interested to try the H.266 codec at least once. I've only just got around to doing my media collection for my server - nearly 7TB (every movie/show that is on disk that steps foot in my house I automatically backup due to not so careful siblings), so H.265 is helping there, but it takes time to re-encode the footage and I don't have all the source material anymore, so quality may take a hit from being an encode of an encode. But only one way to find out and unfortunately that may not be on my current hardware...

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GPU:      MSI RTX 3060 12GB Aero ITX
Storage: Crucial P3 1TB NVMe Gen 4 SSD, 1TB Crucial MX500, Spinning Rust (7TB Internal, 16TB External - All in-use),
PSU:      Cooler Master MWE Gold 750w V2 PSU (Thanks LTT PSU Tier List)
Cooler:   BeQuite! Prue Rock 2 Black Edition
Case:     ThermalTake Versa J22 TG

Passmark 10 Score: 6096.4         CPU-z Score: 4189 MT         Unigine Valley (DX11 @1080p Ultra): 5145         CryEngine Neon Noir (1080p Ultra): 9579

Audio Setup:                  Scarlett 2i2, AudioTechnica AT2020 XLR, Mackie CR3 Monitors, Sennheiser HD559 headphones, HyperX Cloud II Headset, KZ ES4 IEM (Cyan)

Laptop:                            MacBook Pro 2017 (Intel i5 7360U, 8GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, 2x Thunderbolt 3 Ports - No Touch Bar) Catalina & Boot Camp Win10 Pro

Primary Phone:               Xiaomi Mi 11T Pro 5G 256GB (Snapdragon 888)

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Posted
49 minutes ago, WelshDdraig said:


All I know is that HEVC works fine for me via VLC/MPC/Plex without having that codec installed (although I do use K-Lite/ Combined Community Codec Pack.) maybe give them a try?
 

HEVC support on Windows is not supported in hardware (DXVA) without the codec. However both VLC and MPC-HC can use the on-board decoders of intel/amd/nvidia GPU's through their own propietary api's if certain things are installed. For MPC-HC, there needs to be a directshow filter, and you can override things the OS has determined (that would normally be used) by installing your own filters. Normally when you install mpc-hc you install the LAVfilters which are the codecs from ffmpeg. So both VLC and MPC-HC have the same support as FFMPEG.

 

FFMPEG of course, supports the hardware acceleration API's for h264 and h265, if compiled as such. But FFDshow hasn't been updated in about 6 years, where as LAVfilters has been updated at least since last year.

 

It's not normally recommended to even install ffdshow/lavfilters for the OS to use since it will interfere with games if allowed to override the OS filters so you can use it with all other video players. Just stick to mpc-hc or vlc to play video stand-alone.

 

And this lack of HEVC (h265) on Win10 is the same problem as the lack of AVC (h264) was on 7, and MPEG-2 (h262) was on Windows up till Windows 7. Microsoft doesn't want to pay for it, Microsoft doesn't expect, or want you to play videos on the PC, and if you want to, pay them for the codec. Meanwhile Apple has always had these codecs available, at least inside Quicktime, and that was one way you could install it for free on Windows, provided you used quicktime to play the videos.

 

19 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

How much FPGA space?. How do you future proof that if you don't know which codec will be released in the future nor its requirements? Not to mention "rewiring" (or whatever people call it) FPGA circuits take some time, so you can't keep switching codecs back and forth.

No idea, I'm just putting it out there that instead of leaving ASIC space that gets wasted on codecs that aren't being used, reserve that space as a FPGA core for "future codec logic core" and offload things that the OS actually needs help to support like AV1 and h265 video, and opus (audio) without draining the battery. Given the life of smartphones, I really doubt any smartphone vendors would even take this up, they'd rather just shotgun all the codec logic blocks that are needed for netflix/tiktok and be done with it, even if it costs them more.

 

That doesn't excuse AMD, nVidia, Intel, or even ARM itself from divergent video codecs. If there was a FPGA space on the GPU/CPU that can be programmed as standard h264/h265/h266/VP8/VP9/AV1/etc playback, then that would move the efforts we typically see in FFMPEG to actual hardware without having to jump through patent and licencing hurdles. The GPU vendors and CPU vendors can just sell the parts without the codecs installed, and if the user wants to use it, it can be programmed into the FPGA logic block at boot time or runtime, and people who are using their systems as video editors/streaming transcoders/etc get the same benefit. Then it's no longer a question of "if" something is supported but "did you buy a high end enough part" that it can be reprogrammed to do so. OpenCL largely suggested this could be done, but what we've instead seen is every CPU/GPU vendor build their own ASIC anyway. So how much of that GPU space is being wasted on a fixed function block? How often is VP9 or AV1 going to be encountered outside of Youtube?

 

In general, at least as far as I know, usually the decoder ASIC blocks are not very large, and that is mostly what you need just to watch video. It's the encoders that are large and usually what is most CPU intensive, often at a 10:1 ratio. A lot of compression is like that, increase the compression's complexity/memory use at the expense of time, but the decoder is often not nearly as complex, and in some cases, lossless decoders are very tiny compared to their encoders. Lossy encoders require a lot of "figuring out where the motion vectors go" in predicting what should be where, so the more data there is (eg bigger resolutions, higher frame rates) the more memory is required. 

 

As a side note, trying to encode 4K video, using the Geforce 1080, requires substantial portions of system memory and gpu memory. https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/?p=15229 , so even if there is a fixed function encoder, that doesn't automatically mean that the device will have the necessary memory to do it. But Playback does not require that.

 

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