COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Wait, there are people that believe this? That is as improbable as dying from leaving a fan on while you sleep at night.

Here’s an example. If wearing surgical masks cause hypercapnia, then there shouldn’t be doctors, nurses, scientists or even people in waste management in existence right now. 

3M is shooketh. 

[atxcyclist]

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Here’s an example. If wearing surgical masks cause hypercapnia, then there shouldn’t be doctors, nurses, scientists or even people in waste management in existence right now. 

 

3M is shooketh. 

Nothing truly surprises me these days, but that level of ignorance is disappointing.

[PhantomJaguarr]

3 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Tbh, unless the Governor wants to go HAM, I don’t think there’s a lot he can do if counties and their respective sheriffs don’t play ball. 

Compared to other governors I think he already has gone HAM. We do have the most populous State. And then there's counties that are far less populated/dense (Yuba and Sutter) compared to LA that have been given the green-light to reopen. I've heard of some sheriffs not wanting to impose stay-at-home orders in places like Riverside County. Ironic when both sheriffs and police officers have passed away because of Covid-19.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/496883-california-sheriff-says-he-wont-enforce-stay-at-home-order-because-its

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/second-riverside-county-sheriffs-deputy-dies-from-covid-19-complications

https://www.policeone.com/coronavirus-covid-19/articles/calif-police-officer-dies-of-covid-19-pyrWMRcIHk0DPJrY/

 

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article242711176.html

Quote

Last week, Yuba and Sutter counties went rogue, telling local businesses they can reopen in violation of Gov. Gavin Newsom’s ongoing statewide order clamping down on the economy to reduce coronavirus infection.

 

The governor responded by sending state regulators in to threaten businesses with license loss if they don’t close.Now, the feud appears to be at least partially settled. On Wednesday, state health officials announced that Yuba and Sutter, two agricultural counties in the Sacramento Valley, are among four more California counties given the green light to reopen restaurants and stores, including shopping malls, for indoor dining and shopping.

 

[Deli]

When an effective vaccine is finally available sometime in the future. There are 7 billion people on earth. And obviously even if licences are issued so it can be made in multiple countries. There is no way they can make 7 billion in a short few months. So the question is who should get the vaccine first? I don't want to see a certain worthy country buying all the initial production capacity. And the rest of the world has to wait.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Deli said:

When an effective vaccine is finally available sometime in the future. There are 7 billion people on earth. And obviously even if licences are issued so it can be made in multiple countries. There is no way they can make 7 billion in a short few months. So the question is who should get the vaccine first? I don't want to see a certain worthy country buying all the initial production capacity. And the rest of the world has to wait.

Unfortunately, it's less a question of who should get it first and who will get it first.  Odds are it'll be people in North America and Europe because of where the vaccines are being developed, which governments have the money to buy it, and the sheer scale of their outbreaks (the US being particularly bad).  My concern is that developing countries, like in Africa or parts of Asia, will get it last and be forced to endure safety precautions, mass infections or both.

[Deli]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

Unfortunately, it's less a question of who should get it first and who will get it first.  Odds are it'll be people in North America and Europe because of where the vaccines are being developed, which governments have the money to buy it, and the sheer scale of their outbreaks (the US being particularly bad).  My concern is that developing countries, like in Africa or parts of Asia, will get it last and be forced to endure safety precautions, mass infections or both.

China, Japan are also developing vaccine. Let's suppose China has it done first. And you can imagine China will prioritize its population first. That are 1.4 billion of people. Now imagine the outcry from other countries. Likewise, if the US has it first. It has the power to determine who will get it first. Europe is no longer on the list of allies of US. So Israel, Saudi Arabia? And Iran will be the last. Or US can use it as bargaining chip for trade deals?

 

It can get pretty ugly.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Quote

When they responded, they found that more than 100 people were gathered at a short-term-rental property that appeared to have been reserved for the occasion, he said.

 

The officers heard a single gunshot and called for backup units, Chong said. An investigation revealed that a man had been shot in his groin area. The wound is believed to have been accidentally self-inflicted.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-17/raging-hollywood-hills-house-party-amid-coronavirus-ends-when-man-shoots-himself-in-groin-police-say

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-17/raging-hollywood-hills-house-party-amid-coronavirus-ends-when-man-shoots-himself-in-groin-police-say

I know many pandemic deniers seem to be determined to meet a premature death... but in the case of that man, he apparently wasn't willing to wait for the virus.

[lewdicrous]

 

[spartaman64]

On 5/16/2020 at 11:36 PM, captain_to_fire said:

PSA to everyone: Wearing surgical masks (including N95) for prolonged periods of time DOES NOT cause acidosis or carbon monoxide poisoning. 

 

I’m sharing this as there had been several people sharing shit articles on Facebook that wearing surgical masks can cause CO poisoning. It can be claustrophobic to some people but it won’t kill you. 

wtf where would the carbon monoxide be coming from? this is why humanity is doomed

[spartaman64]

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/

interesting stats website i found

 

[lewdicrous]

https://www.mystateline.com/health/coronavirus/man-who-called-coronavirus-fake-crisis-gets-infected-wife-in-critical-condition/

Quote

JUPITER, Fla. (WTVO) — A Florida man who worked as a rideshare driver and refused to wear a mask out of skepticism of the coronavirus pandemic has been hospitalized, along with his wife, who is now facing a serious threat from the disease.

At what point will people stop treating this as a lie and actually start taking care of themselves and those around them?

[PhantomJaguarr]

2 hours ago, lewdicrous said:

https://www.mystateline.com/health/coronavirus/man-who-called-coronavirus-fake-crisis-gets-infected-wife-in-critical-condition/

At what point will people stop treating this as a lie and actually start taking care of themselves and those around them?

I’m getting questions like “has the virus actually affected any of your family?” So if it hasn’t then  that means it doesn’t exist or less dangerous than we thought? Two extended family members of mine that I have never met in person passed away because of Covid-19. The person who asked me the initial question finally backed off.

 

[lewdicrous]

13 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I’m getting questions like “has the virus actually affected any of your family?” So if it hasn’t then  that means it doesn’t exist or less dangerous than we thought? Two extended family members of mine that I have never met in person passed away because of Covid-19. The person who asked me the initial question finally backed off.

Some people won't believe it until it affects them, but even then, some will claim "It's just a flu".

[Rakanoth]

Comparing lockdown skeptics to anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers demonstrates a disturbing amount of scientific illiteracy. I am a staunch defender of the scientific consensus on a whole host of issues. I strongly believe, for example, that most vaccines are highly effective in light of relatively minimal side-effects; that climate change is real, is a significant threat to the environment, and is largely caused or exacerbated by human activity; that GMOs are largely safe and are responsible for saving countless lives; and that Darwinian evolution correctly explains the diversity of life on this planet. I have, in turn, embedded myself in social circles of people with similar views. I have always considered those people to be generally scientifically literate, at least until the pandemic hit.

 

Lately, many, if not most of those in my circle have explicitly compared any skepticism of the lockdown to the anti-vaccination movement, the climate denial movement, and even the flat earth movement. I’m shocked at just how unfair and uninformed these, my most enlightened of friends, really are.

 

Thousands and thousands of studies and direct observations conducted over many decades and even centuries have continually supported theories regarding vaccination, climate change, and the shape of the damned planet. We have nothing like that when it comes to the lockdown.

 

Science is only barely beginning to wrap its fingers around the current pandemic and the response to it. We have little more than untested hypotheses when it comes to the efficacy of the lockdown strategy, and we have less than that when speculating on the possible harms that will result from the lockdown. There are no studies, no controlled experiments, no attempts to falsify findings, and absolutely no scientific consensus when it comes to the lockdowns.

 

I am bewildered and deeply disturbed that so many people I have always trusted cannot see the difference between the issues. I’m forced to believe that most my science loving friends have no clue what science actually is or how it actually works. They have always, it appears, simply hidden behind the veneer of science to avoid actually becoming educated on the issues.

[Zodiark1593]

40 minutes ago, Rakanoth said:

Snippity 

I’ve pretty much stayed out of arguments as I don’t really know enough about virology to make a certain judgement call as to what policies to support or condemn. Obviously people dying from disease is bad and rather callous. Likewise, crippling the tax dollars (from a running economy) to keep hospitals open is bad too. There are merits to varying degrees from both sides of arguments. And in the States, one size does not fit all (due to geographical, logistical, cultural obstacles, etc). 

Given the information I have, or lack of, I’m unsure of the most pragmatic, direct means to the suppression, or even eradication of this virus with minimal impact to the country’s long term ability to maintain varying welfare and infrastructure (such as medical care) funding, short of going HAM and utilizing much more authoritarian directives, and the latter option is certainly subject to severe repercussions in the States, even if it succeeds. 

[lewdicrous]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/coronavirus-wearing-a-mask-can-reduce-transmission-by-75percent-new-study-claims.html

Study on hamsters, but it could help us in future studies.

Quote

As the debate over the effectiveness of wearing masks during a pandemic continues, a new study gives weight to arguments by medical professionals and government leaders that wearing a mask does indeed reduce virus transmission — and dramatically so. 

Experiments by a team in Hong Kong found that the coronavirus’ transmission rate via respiratory droplets or airborne particles dropped by as much as 75% when surgical masks were used.

“The findings implied to the world and the public is that the effectiveness of mask-wearing against the coronavirus pandemic is huge,” Dr. Yuen Kwok-yung, a leading microbiologist from Hong Kong University who helped discover the SARS virus in 2003, said Sunday. 

 

[Stockholmes]

3 hours ago, Rakanoth said:

Comparing lockdown skeptics to anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers demonstrates a disturbing amount of scientific illiteracy. I am a staunch defender of the scientific consensus on a whole host of issues. I strongly believe, for example, that most vaccines are highly effective in light of relatively minimal side-effects; that climate change is real, is a significant threat to the environment, and is largely caused or exacerbated by human activity; that GMOs are largely safe and are responsible for saving countless lives; and that Darwinian evolution correctly explains the diversity of life on this planet. I have, in turn, embedded myself in social circles of people with similar views. I have always considered those people to be generally scientifically literate, at least until the pandemic hit.

 

Lately, many, if not most of those in my circle have explicitly compared any skepticism of the lockdown to the anti-vaccination movement, the climate denial movement, and even the flat earth movement. I’m shocked at just how unfair and uninformed these, my most enlightened of friends, really are.

 

Thousands and thousands of studies and direct observations conducted over many decades and even centuries have continually supported theories regarding vaccination, climate change, and the shape of the damned planet. We have nothing like that when it comes to the lockdown.

 

Science is only barely beginning to wrap its fingers around the current pandemic and the response to it. We have little more than untested hypotheses when it comes to the efficacy of the lockdown strategy, and we have less than that when speculating on the possible harms that will result from the lockdown. There are no studies, no controlled experiments, no attempts to falsify findings, and absolutely no scientific consensus when it comes to the lockdowns.

 

I am bewildered and deeply disturbed that so many people I have always trusted cannot see the difference between the issues. I’m forced to believe that most my science loving friends have no clue what science actually is or how it actually works. They have always, it appears, simply hidden behind the veneer of science to avoid actually becoming educated on the issues.

I believe vaccines are highly useful tools too, unless they have heavy metals in them, like aluminum for example that the vaccine makers use as an adjuvant. Check this if you don't believe me: https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2018/4/1/international2018

 

You seem to be a little uninformed on the subject of vaccines too. Tho I'm derailing this thread with this talk. Really suggest you take atleast a glance at the link I posted. It's kind of heavy stuff, all of it from doctors who've studied vaccines. The aluminum that's in some of them really isn't that safe. Even though the authorities claim so.

[lewdicrous]

3 hours ago, Stockholmes said:

I believe vaccines are highly useful tools too, unless they have heavy metals in them, like aluminum for example that the vaccine makers use as an adjuvant. Check this if you don't believe me: https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2018/4/1/international2018

 

You seem to be a little uninformed on the subject of vaccines too. Tho I'm derailing this thread with this talk. Really suggest you take atleast a glance at the link I posted. It's kind of heavy stuff, all of it from doctors who've studied vaccines. The aluminum that's in some of them really isn't that safe. Even though the authorities claim so.

https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/adjuvants/Jun_2012/en/

 

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.vaccine.2011.09.124

Quote

Conclusions

 

Using the previous work of Keith et al.[1] as our starting point, we re-evaluated aluminum levels in infants using a number of updated parameters, including a current pediatric vaccination schedule, baseline aluminum levels at birth, a recent aluminum retention function from human volunteers that incorporates glomerular filtration rates in infants, an adjustment for the kinetics of aluminum efflux at the site of injection, the most recent MRL for aluminum, and up-to-date infant body weight data for children 0–60 months of age. Assuming slow release of aluminum adjuvant from the site of injection in to the systemic circulation, we have demonstrated that aluminum levels in infants are well below the minimal risk level curves for either median or low-birth weight babies. We also compared the body burden of aluminum contributed by vaccines with that contributed by diet.The body burden of aluminum from vaccines is not more than 2-fold higher than that received in the diet. While the contribution of vaccines to an infant’s aluminum body burden can be slightly higher than that of the dietary contribution in our model, the fact that the primary pool where the aluminum is residing, as a long- term storage depot, is likely to be skeletal and not a more sensitive soft organ system is reassuring [5]. Although aluminum toxicosis is known to occur in humans, it is found exclusively in individuals suffering from kidney disease or in those exposed to high levels of aluminum via occupational inhalation. However, for infants, our study demonstrates that there is little risk for aluminum toxicity following immunizations administered according to ACIP recommendations even with maximum exposures to aluminium adjuvant. For the general population of infants, who receive less than the maximum dose, the risk is even lower.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html

Quote

What is an adjuvant and why is it added to a vaccine?

 

An adjuvant is an ingredient used in some vaccines that helps create a stronger immune response in people receiving the vaccine. In other words, adjuvants help vaccines work better. Some vaccines that are made from weakened or killed germs contain naturally occurring adjuvants and help the body produce a strong protective immune response. However, most vaccines developed today include just small components of germs, such as their proteins, rather than the entire virus or bacteria. Adjuvants help the body to produce an immune response strong enough to protect the person from the disease he or she is being vaccinated against. Adjuvanted vaccines can cause more local reactions (such as redness, swelling, and pain at the injection site) and more systemic reactions (such as fever, chills and body aches) than non-adjuvanted vaccines.

 

Adjuvants have been used safely in vaccines for decades.

 

Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found they strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines.

Newer adjuvants have been developed to target specific components of the body’s immune response, so that protection against disease is stronger and lasts longer.

In all cases, vaccines containing adjuvants are tested for safety and effectiveness in clinical trials before they are licensed for use in the United States, and they are continuously monitored by CDC and FDA once they are approved.

https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.vaccine.2018.08.036

Quote

Conclusions

 

Presently, no population-based studies regarding the potential association between the Al in vaccines and the development of neurotoxicity have been conducted. This limits the evaluation of the neurotoxicity of Al-containing vaccines. However, billions of doses of these prophylactic preparations have been administered to children without incident and with enormous advantages regarding the prevention of common and severe infectious diseases. However, exposure to Al is associated with the development of severe clinical problems, including CNS deterioration. Fortunately, certain associations were found only in cases of long-term exposure to high amounts of Al or when the renal excretion of the element was impaired due to severe renal insufficiency. More-over, the development of AD after Al exposure is far from certain, as is the potential correlation between Al-containing vaccines and ASIA. Although the bioavailability of Al included in vaccines differs from that of the Al derived from water, food or inhalation,and the exposure of young children to Al from vaccines is not precisely defined, the total Al exposure from immunization is likely significantly lower than the level that causes neurotoxicity. Furthermore, studies that seem to demonstrate a possible correlation between vaccines and ADS development in children are strongly debated because they are seriously flawed. Thus, current data do not support the elimination of Al from vaccines for fear of neurotoxicity.

 

The problem that deserves attention is the suggested relationship between Al oxyhydroxide -containing vaccines and MMF or ME/CSF. This relationship is supported by a series of experimental findings and specific data collected from patients that suggest that,in some cases, the Al contained in macrophages at the site of injection can reach the brain and cause damage in a few individuals who most likely have a genetic predisposition. Importantly, the described cases of MMF and ME/CSF are very few, and MMF cases not related to adjuvants have been described. Currently, definitive conclusions cannot be drawn. Thus, several studies must be conducted. Until then, Al improves vaccine immunogenicity and performance, and should be maintained; nevertheless, research on the pharmacokinetics of Al in vaccines should be encouraged.

 

The study that the blog cites was funded by an anti-vaccination group called Children's Medical Safety Research Institute.

At least two other studies referenced in that paper were also funded by anti-vaccine foundations, the Katlyn Fox Foundation and the Dwoskin Family Foundation.

 

If your sources are already anti-vaccine and are being funded by anti-vaccination foundations, then their data will be biased towards that and it will be reflected in their studies.

Please don't use blogs as your source of information, especially those that enforce your own misguided bias, without properly looking into the subject at hand.

[IkeaGnome]

Starting to go back to normal here. As of Friday we have no quarantine except for the mandatory 2 week quarantine for people coming in from out of state. I still have to quarantine for work. It's a remote man camp job and we have people flying in from out of state. Overall in state, our active cases has been falling while our recovered goes up. I'm impartial to a full lockdown. It can work if people just cooperate. As a state, it went really well. In the active cases, you can pretty much see when we went to our "full" lockdown. Of course, most of the state works in critical infrastructure jobs (mining, fishing, oil), so ours wasn't as "complete" of a lockdown as most places, and it worked for us. Smaller more spread out population though. Just proof that if done right, lockdown can work. We have about 1000 hospital beds open out of around 2000 total, with less than 10% of our ventilators in use. We have a little bit of wiggle room to test opening. On 8 May, we went to stage 2 of our reopening which included a lot of "communal" places opening up at 25-50% capacity and so far no major jump in cases. Overall, it's going really well here and people haven't over reacted too badly. Our state government did jump all over this before it became a "big" issue for us though.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/05/19/dunleavy-to-lift-all-coronavirus-capacity-restrictions-on-alaska-businesses-friday/

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/04/06/covid-19-in-alaska/

https://covid19.alaska.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/05142020-Reopen-Alaska-Plan.pdf

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, Voluspa said:

Starting to go back to normal here. As of Friday we have no quarantine except for the mandatory 2 week quarantine for people coming in from out of state. I still have to quarantine for work. It's a remote man camp job and we have people flying in from out of state. Overall in state, our active cases has been falling while our recovered goes up. I'm impartial to a full lockdown. It can work if people just cooperate. As a state, it went really well. In the active cases, you can pretty much see when we went to our "full" lockdown. Of course, most of the state works in critical infrastructure jobs (mining, fishing, oil), so ours wasn't as "complete" of a lockdown as most places, and it worked for us. Smaller more spread out population though. Just proof that if done right, lockdown can work. We have about 1000 hospital beds open out of around 2000 total, with less than 10% of our ventilators in use. We have a little bit of wiggle room to test opening. On 8 May, we went to stage 2 of our reopening which included a lot of "communal" places opening up at 25-50% capacity and so far no major jump in cases. Overall, it's going really well here and people haven't over reacted too badly. Our state government did jump all over this before it became a "big" issue for us though.

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/05/19/dunleavy-to-lift-all-coronavirus-capacity-restrictions-on-alaska-businesses-friday/

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/04/06/covid-19-in-alaska/

https://covid19.alaska.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/05142020-Reopen-Alaska-Plan.pdf

That sounds good.  My biggest concern is that there will be too many people who'll see lockdown measures lift and immediately act like everything is back to normal -- that is, ignoring distancing rules and rushing to go to as many public gatherings as possible.  It doesn't sound like it's out of control in Alaska.

 

Here in Ottawa, on the other hand, I hear it was like dodging bullets if you tried to see tulips at the local parks this holiday weekend.  Police were there to enforce distancing, I believe, but I'd have been so stressed with the crowds that I wouldn't have enjoyed the flowers at all.  It needs to get to the point where there hasn't been a new case for a good couple of weeks before I could relax.

[IkeaGnome]

It's also a lot easier for us to socially distance and all that up here than in other places. I do feel for the dense areas that are being hit very hard. I'm just fortunate to live in a place that's (for a lack of better words) designed against stuff like this. In fact, minus tourist season most people are up here because they want to be left alone and enjoy the space. If you include Anchorage in our population density it's only 1.2 people per square mile. Anchorage counts for almost 300,000 people of our 765,000 though. If you don't count Anchorage and it's land mass, we average 1.4 square miles per person. That does include uninhabitable areas, but it also includes the other more "population dense" areas. Pretty easy for us to self isolate.

[Nowak]

Is anyone gonna point out that we avoided the apocalyptic models predicted by medical researchers because of the lockdowns?

[WkdPaul]

1 minute ago, Nowak said:

Is anyone gonna point out that we avoided the apocalyptic models predicted by medical researchers because of the lockdowns?

Nah, it's because it's just a bad flu... /S

 

But seriously, this seems to be something that many aren't taking into account, yeah. They see low numbers and jump on that and incomplete data to "prove" us that we're being lied to.

 

Another thing that is being ignored, is that we're still in the middle of it. We have data, but it's incomplete. That should be cause for caution, not dismissal.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Nah, it's because it's just a bad flu... /S

 

But seriously, this seems to be something that many aren't taking into account, yeah. They see low numbers and jump on that and incomplete data to "prove" us that we're being lied to.

 

Another thing that is being ignored, is that we're still in the middle of it. We have data, but it's incomplete. That should be cause for caution, not dismissal.

Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.