COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Zodiark1593]

With many schools moving to online learning, I ponder how well those in rural areas with unsuitable/no internet will cope. Even public hotspots will be scarce due to pandemic-related restrictions.  In a democratic (and for that matter, a hypothetical libertarian) society, I feel education to be especially crucial to its long term stability and survival. Education is in a pretty poor state overall as it is right-now. It would be incredibly poor form to abandon those unable to access the internet. 

[SeriouslyMikey]

This is an interesting read about how things are possibly being wrongfully managed in England. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-one-can-ever-recover-from-covid-19-in-england-a-statistical-anomaly/

 

[NumLock21]

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/investigations/13-investigates/13-investigates-anti-mask-protestors-turn-to-mesh-yarn-crochet-masks-covid-coronavirus/531-5350260c-d6b1-4bd8-857e-860fe84e0f52

 

Idiots like them who ruins it for everyone and US is joke when it comes to handing the pandemic. The problem is if those anti-mask are lucky and survived through this, then any future pandemics, they'll just say we're overreacting.

[PhantomJaguarr]

17 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

With many schools moving to online learning, I ponder how well those in rural areas with unsuitable/no internet will cope. Even public hotspots will be scarce due to pandemic-related restrictions.  In a democratic (and for that matter, a hypothetical libertarian) society, I feel education to be especially crucial to its long term stability and survival. Education is in a pretty poor state overall as it is right-now. It would be incredibly poor form to abandon those unable to access the internet. 

From this morning:

Quote

At his Friday news conference, California Governor Gavin Newsom ordered counties on the state’s coronavirus watch list to shut down school campuses this fall, at least to begin the school year. The 32 counties on the list — which include Los Angeles and most of Southern California — must switch to virtual instruction only. The state’s two largest districts, Los Angeles Unified and San Diego Unified, had already announced plans to begin the new academic year with online-only courses.

 

The mandate applies to private as well as public schools, according to Newsom.

https://deadline.com/2020/07/california-governor-gavin-newsom-orders-schools-to-close-campuses-coronavirus-1202988544/
 

Yikes. And there’s the issue with daycare. Not all parents can stay home because they need to go to work. Especially since more business have reopened.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Personally, I think face masks should be personal choice. However, I can completely understand why someone would think differently, or wear one themselves. I don't understand the whole unconstitutional argument, but I'm not American, so I'm not going to bother with commenting on that.

 

Though, as of the 24th, it'll be mandatory for shoppers here to wear masks when going into a store. I think it's probably too late to be doing that as people are beginning to get back into the swing of things and want to return to normal life. It's also not mandatory for the staff and that has been left down to companies to decide whether or not they want their staff to wear them or not. For example, Lidl has stated that they will leave it up to the individual whereas Sainsbury's are saying that if the customers have to wear one, then the staff should too, which I can understand and actually agree with (on the grounds that it would be both hypocritical and unfair is staff didn't need to).

On top of this, staff members aren't able to prevent or enforce the rules themselves, which in turn makes the law unenforcable on a grand scale, so we'll just have to see how that goes. I'm not personally happy with it, but I'll just deal with it considering the plan is to try and get life back to normal by Christmas, which'll be nice.

 

Not aiming to change anyone's mind, just wanted to throw in my two cents, really.

[Commodus]

9 minutes ago, SeriouslyMikey said:

Personally, I think face masks should be personal choice. However, I can completely understand why someone would think differently, or wear one themselves. I don't understand the whole unconstitutional argument, but I'm not American, so I'm not going to bother with commenting on that.

If it's a public health and safety issue, it shouldn't really be personal choice -- at least, not in spaces where it's difficult to keep your distance.  What you're unintentionally saying is that it's your choice to make others sick.

 

A meme going around explains it pretty well: imagine if people said they had the right to drink and drive, and that you could just stay off the road if you didn't like it. You'd be incensed, right? Well, the threat is similar here. If you have COVID-19 (remember, it's sometimes asymptomatic) and not only go out but don't wear a mask, you're effectively playing Russian roulette with everyone you come close to. Will they get the worst fever of their life? Will they be crippled with permanent lung damage? Will they die a painful, lonely death?  You may choose not to wear a mask, but those people won't get to choose what happens to them.

[SeriouslyMikey]

15 minutes ago, Commodus said:

If it's a public health and safety issue, it shouldn't really be personal choice -- at least, not in spaces where it's difficult to keep your distance.  What you're unintentionally saying is that it's your choice to make others sick.

 

A meme going around explains it pretty well: imagine if people said they had the right to drink and drive, and that you could just stay off the road if you didn't like it. You'd be incensed, right? Well, the threat is similar here. If you have COVID-19 (remember, it's sometimes asymptomatic) and not only go out but don't wear a mask, you're effectively playing Russian roulette with everyone you come close to. Will they get the worst fever of their life? Will they be crippled with permanent lung damage? Will they die a painful, lonely death?  You may choose not to wear a mask, but those people won't get to choose what happens to them.

See, I still disagree. Though again I'm not trying to change your mind.

 

What I will say is, I'm fine with having to put up with it, as I'm not one of these people who thinks the laws are permanent. As, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure that any law that has been made under the covid pandemic has a sunset clause of two years. So no matter what they are not lasting forever. See, it's all about compromising. It's not mandatory in the streets, however it will be in stores as where you say, it can be difficult to keep your distance. It's also the case on public transport here too.

[Commodus]

21 hours ago, SeriouslyMikey said:

See, I still disagree. Though again I'm not trying to change your mind.

 

What I will say is, I'm fine with having to put up with it, as I'm not one of these people who thinks the laws are permanent. As, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure that any law that has been made under the covid pandemic has a sunset clause of two years. So no matter what they are not lasting forever. See, it's all about compromising. It's not mandatory in the streets, however it will be in stores as where you say, it can be difficult to keep your distance. It's also the case on public transport here too.

The laws definitely aren't permanent -- they're just contingent on the pandemic ending, most likely through a vaccine or a surefire treatment.   And I really, really hope those vaccines aimed at late 2020 / early 2021 pan out.

[SeriouslyMikey]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

The laws definitely aren't permanent -- they're just contingent on the pandemic ending, most likely through a vaccine or a surefire treatment.   And I really, really hope those vaccines aimed at late 2020 / early 2021 pan out.

As do I. After all, there's no reason to be pesemistic, it'll only bring already low-ish spirits even lower.

Though I've worked all the way through this crisis, it's been good to work on myself now there's more free time, even if I'm looking forward to things getting back to normal again. The whole situation has brought out both the worst and best in people, too.

[Ithanul]

On 7/15/2020 at 6:53 PM, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Lol someone yesterday gave me the death stare when I asked her to put on a mask in my store that was in her pocket. And of course she incorrectly wore it like a beard, not covering her mouth or nose. Found out when she showed up at the register and my clerk had to literally ask her 3 times to put it on right. 
 

Now I just look at what’s happening to Florida and Texas. And neighboring Arizona. Smfh.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-arizona-coronavirus-deaths-refrigerated-trucks-morgues/

Those folks probably loose their minds if they came onto a base.  It been 100% mandatory way before the majority States or cities declared such. 

 

Heck, even our bases down range have similar guidelines, as well with restrictions at the gyms (some going as far as closing up the gyms).

 

Also, funny you mention Florida.  I put it like this, the military has declared stop movement into that State, along with a few other States and cities.  Or, if going there, mandatory 14+ day quarantine, especially if coming from one of those States.

 

The base I worked at was actually at phase 2 to re-opening and then the increase case count started to occur.  So, all back to phase 1 and spilt shifts again.

On 7/16/2020 at 11:50 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

With many schools moving to online learning, I ponder how well those in rural areas with unsuitable/no internet will cope. Even public hotspots will be scarce due to pandemic-related restrictions.  In a democratic (and for that matter, a hypothetical libertarian) society, I feel education to be especially crucial to its long term stability and survival. Education is in a pretty poor state overall as it is right-now. It would be incredibly poor form to abandon those unable to access the internet. 

That worries me as well.  As someone that had to deal growing up in rural Alabama.   Good luck having decent Internet or the darn money to afford even satellite.  Maybe if folks can work out a hotspot plan with their cell provider.  Had to go that route with my parents (they still live out in that rural area). 

[PhantomJaguarr]

4 hours ago, Ithanul said:

Also, funny you mention Florida.  I put it like this, the military has declared stop movement into that State, along with a few other States and cities.  Or, if going there, mandatory 14+ day quarantine, especially if coming from one of those States.

I wonder if that’s the case with my city because we’re basically a hotspot now but we’re known for our navy bases and camp pendleton marine base. Didn’t help one of our navy ships caught fire and became hazardous for air quality. The air smelled like burnt plastic. After four days it was finally put out.

[Nowak]

American passports are pretty useless now. The Bahamas is the latest country to ban American tourists now.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/americans-banned-bahamas-coronavirus/

 

If only our "leadership" wasn't so fucking useless, decided that listening to money is better than medical experts, and people wore masks without whining like a two year old about it, maybe then we'd be pretty back to "normal" now and these travel bans wouldn't be happening.

 

Fox is angry.

[FakeNSA]

On 7/16/2020 at 9:50 PM, Zodiark1593 said:

With many schools moving to online learning, I ponder how well those in rural areas with unsuitable/no internet will cope. Even public hotspots will be scarce due to pandemic-related restrictions.  In a democratic (and for that matter, a hypothetical libertarian) society, I feel education to be especially crucial to its long term stability and survival. Education is in a pretty poor state overall as it is right-now. It would be incredibly poor form to abandon those unable to access the internet. 

As someone living with my parents in rural Arizona right now, quarantine education is next to nonexistent. Last year, they finished it out sending a week's worth of homework at a time to their student base by driving it to each bus stop, and picking up the previous week's homework.

This year, they are talking about moving toward partial online learning, with no provisions for providing internet (my house is 40 miles out of town, so satellite or cellular data are your only options.)

 

So yeah, continued school shutdowns are seriously harming students. Especially poor kids, especially rural kids.

And where the two meet? If this goes on too long, a lot of people out here might never graduate.

 

An article that I found informative on school reopening stats:https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/04/30/when-easing-lockdowns-governments-should-open-schools-first

[Plasma Gamer]

Did Riley call it 

 

[Sauron]

On 7/18/2020 at 5:59 PM, SeriouslyMikey said:

Personally, I think face masks should be personal choice. However, I can completely understand why someone would think differently, or wear one themselves.

Problem is that you not wearing one makes it more likely for you to infect me, not the other way around. So no, it isn't and shouldn't be your personal choice, just like getting vaccinated or not driving while drunk - it's not just for your safety but also for the safety of other, potentially more vulnerable, people.

On 7/17/2020 at 6:50 AM, Zodiark1593 said:

With many schools moving to online learning, I ponder how well those in rural areas with unsuitable/no internet will cope. Even public hotspots will be scarce due to pandemic-related restrictions.  In a democratic (and for that matter, a hypothetical libertarian) society, I feel education to be especially crucial to its long term stability and survival. Education is in a pretty poor state overall as it is right-now. It would be incredibly poor form to abandon those unable to access the internet. 

Yeah... it's almost like education and internet access should be considered essential services and guaranteed by the state rather than commodified by corporations.

[FakeNSA]

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

Problem is that you not wearing one makes it more likely for you to infect me, not the other way around. So no, it isn't and shouldn't be your personal choice, just like getting vaccinated or not driving while drunk - it's not just for your safety but also for the safety of other, potentially more vulnerable, people.

Yeah... it's almost like education and internet access should be considered essential services and guaranteed by the state rather than commodified by corporations.

Education is supplied by the state? 

[Sauron]

26 minutes ago, FakeNSA said:

Education is supplied by the state? 

Supplied and guaranteed are not the same.

[FakeNSA]

53 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Supplied and guaranteed are not the same.

In this case, how is it different?

Genuinely confused here. 
(please warn me if we stray in to politics, mods)

[Sauron]

4 minutes ago, FakeNSA said:

In this case, how is it different?

Genuinely confused here. 
(please warn me if we stray in to politics, mods)

The difference is that even a completely free university has costs associated with attending that should be covered by the government so that *everyone* can actually take them without problems; plus, public education in the US is notoriously underfunded.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Seems like everyone is forgetting about the teachers. I remember in elementary and even high school there were teachers that were in the susceptible age group to Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/beloved-arizona-teacher-dies-coronavirus-two-others-sharing-classroom-also-n1233672

https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-dies-coronavirus-after-warning-that-parents-are-violating-isolation-sending-kids-school-1518882

South Korea did a study involving 65,000 people related to school reopenings.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html
 

At least here, teachers will probably receive hazard pay. I received something similar but that only lasted like 2 months from our company and we never stopped working in person.

[FakeNSA]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

The difference is that even a completely free university has costs associated with attending that should be covered by the government so that *everyone* can actually take them without problems; plus, public education in the US is notoriously underfunded.

Oh, sorry. I wasn't considering Uni to be a governmental responsibility.

And I agree the public school system has problems!

[FakeNSA]

20 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Seems like everyone is forgetting about the teachers. I remember in elementary and even high school there were teachers that were in the susceptible age group to Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/beloved-arizona-teacher-dies-coronavirus-two-others-sharing-classroom-also-n1233672

https://www.newsweek.com/teacher-dies-coronavirus-after-warning-that-parents-are-violating-isolation-sending-kids-school-1518882

South Korea did a study involving 65,000 people related to school reopenings.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html
 

At least here, teachers will probably receive hazard pay. I received something similar but that only lasted like 2 months from our company and we never stopped working in person.

I actually am not forgetting the teachers, but I am more concerned about students. Long term, compromising schools could decimate graduation rates, especially for poor and/or rural students.

Maybe new policies have to be enacted for fragile teachers (enforced 10 ft social distancing, and a TA to work with the students more closely), but I believe schools have to be reopened.

[PhantomJaguarr]

41 minutes ago, FakeNSA said:

I actually am not forgetting the teachers, but I am more concerned about students. Long term, compromising schools could decimate graduation rates, especially for poor and/or rural students.

Maybe new policies have to be enacted for fragile teachers (enforced 10 ft social distancing, and a TA to work with the students more closely), but I believe schools have to be reopened.

Might take some time for some counties to come back from virtual learning while they stay on my State’s watchlist, including mine. Some people just don’t wear masks. But each State is different. Florida is reopening their schools anyways even with their alarming positive test rate. 

[captain_to_fire]

Meanwhile, the watchOS 7 beta will now include automatic hand-washing detection

Quote

Automatic Handwashing Detection

Washing hands properly for at least 20 seconds can help prevent the spread of illness. In a first-of-its-kind innovation for a wearable, Apple Watch uses the motion sensors, microphone, and on-device machine learning to automatically detect handwashing motions and sounds. It then initiates a 20-second countdown timer, and if the user finishes early, they will be prompted to keep washing. Apple Watch can also conveniently remind the user to wash their hands when they return home.

 

The Health app on iPhone will show frequency and duration of the user’s handwashing, as well as information on the importance of handwashing, as it relates to overall health. Sounds used to detect handwashing are not automatically recorded or saved by the Health app or Apple Watch.

 

 

Basically if you're an Apple Watch owner, there's no reason not to wash your hands. Forget about them looking like prunes after all the handwashing and rubbing alcohol, there's hand lotion for that.

[Donut417]

9 hours ago, FakeNSA said:

I actually am not forgetting the teachers, but I am more concerned about students. Long term, compromising schools could decimate graduation rates, especially for poor and/or rural students.

Maybe new policies have to be enacted for fragile teachers (enforced 10 ft social distancing, and a TA to work with the students more closely), but I believe schools have to be reopened.

From what one of my co workers was telling me, her son's school is considering online only or a 2 day a week thing. As in 50% of students go 2 select days and the other students go the other two selected days. The issue in Michigan is that many class rooms have 30+ students in them. 

 

Personally to me, it should be the parents choice. If they want to do full online schooling then they should be allowed. If they want their kids to go to school, then that should be allowed AS LONG AS they have a proper procedure setup to keep them safe. For the teachers who are concerned about returning, they can use them for online learning. 

 

Im kinda surprised that online courses haven't made it down to lower education. I mean all the colleges I have been to do online learning. Eastern Michigan University had it where we did 1 hour and 15 min class period a week and did the rest online. Even if you don't have an online class, many times you still utilized the internet to turn it work, so to me it makes more sense to embrace online learning. For K to 6 I can see having them go to school, besides learning they get those social skills going. But grades 7-12 they get a smart phone and promptly loose all those social skills.