MOOOOOM!!!! He's not touching me! - Pixel 4 teaser confirms project Soli

[rcmaehl]

Sources:
XDA
The Verge (quote source/media source)

 

Summary:
A teaser for the Pixel 4 confirms project Soli support as well as Face Unlock

 

Media:

 

Quotes/Excerpts:

Quote

Google just can’t help talking about the Pixel 4. In a YouTube video and blog post, the company revealed that the phone will feature face unlock technology instead of a fingerprint sensor. Google also revealed that the Pixel 4 will have a feature called “Motion Sense,” which confirms that it will have a Project Soli chip that uses radar to detect hand gestures near the phone. Google couldn’t help but take a small swipe at the iPhone while it can: right now, Face ID doesn’t work unless the phone is right-side up. “face unlock works in almost any orientation — even if you’re holding it upside down — and you can use it for secure payments and app authentication too.” As with the iPhone, Google says that biometric data will be stored locally in a secure chip and never share with other Google services. The Pixel 4’s face unlock feature will use a variety of sensors to identify your face, including depth, infrared, and RGB. That should mean that it will work in a variety of lighting situations and also work with a diverse set of faces. Looking at the image below, what you won’t see is a second front-facing camera. The Pixel 3 and 3 XL both had an ultra-wide selfie shooter that could capture more of your surroundings or cram more people into a photo. As for the “Motion Sense” feature, there’s not a ton that we can glean from Google’s article. Earlier rumors have pointed to it being related to Project Soli, which uses radar to detect tiny hand or finger movements above the device. Google’s post cites a possible use case where the Soli chip could detect your hand reaching for the phone, which would automatically turn on “the face unlock sensors.” If it all works, the phone would automatically unlock itself and be ready by the time you’re looking at it. We first tried Project Soli back in 2015 when Google expected it to launch in products like smartwatches and speakers. Instead, its first commercial launch is coming in Google’s flagship smartphone. The Pixel 4 is expected to launch in October. Normally, I’d use the word “announce,” but we’re well beyond that now.

 

My Thoughts:

Look Ma'! No Hands! Looks like the research and development of Soli is FINALLY getting a release. I hope this is the first of many releases with the technology. We're halfway to full sized touchless phones the size of watches strapped to our wrist. Now we just need magic air-projecting phone screens and we'll be fully living in the future. Although, I don't think that specific tech will be coming ANYTIME soon. I just hope the Pixel 4a comes with a headphone jack and SD card slot.

[dizmo]

I just don't see the advantage of not touching the device. Seems like a lot of work for a pretty gimmicky feature. I'd rather have a second front camera. 

[Froody129]

I can see myself using the non-touch feature to control music while my phone is on my desk, but it's not that much of a struggle anyway. Hopefully they can think up some cool implementations. At least someone is driving innovation that is not directly in competition with Apple.

 

Speaking of... is Apple not re-introducing Touch ID at some point? I think it's a feature people want, although face unlock is also nice. I disagree with using the face unlock to authorise purchases etc. as even Face ID has been shown to not be flawless under security scrutiny.

[Commodus]

11 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

I can see myself using the non-touch feature to control music while my phone is on my desk, but it's not that much of a struggle anyway. Hopefully they can think up some cool implementations. At least someone is driving innovation that is not directly in competition with Apple.

 

Speaking of... is Apple not re-introducing Touch ID at some point? I think it's a feature people want, although face unlock is also nice. I disagree with using the face unlock to authorise purchases etc. as even Face ID has been shown to not be flawless under security scrutiny.

You're new to how Apple works, aren't you? 

 

Apple never brings features back unless the current one is so horribly broken that there's no choice (as it appears to be doing with MacBook keyboards).  And since Face ID isn't broken... Touch ID isn't coming back.  If anything happens it'll be different technology altogether.

[Murasaki]

ambient light sensor gesture gimmick v2 gotcha

[SenKa]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

You're new to how Apple works, aren't you? 

 

Apple never brings features back unless the current one is so horribly broken that there's no choice (as it appears to be doing with MacBook keyboards).  And since Face ID isn't broken... Touch ID isn't coming back.  If anything happens it'll be different technology altogether.

Incorrect, if current leaks are to be believed. The iPhone X was planned to have FaceID and TouchID with an under screen fingerprint reader, and it was put off as the tech wasn't there at the time. The iPhone 11 is said to have both, current leaks reflect that as well. The credability of the leaks aside, Apple does, and always has planned for TouchID and FaceID to exist together.

 

26 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

Speaking of... is Apple not re-introducing Touch ID at some point? I think it's a feature people want, although face unlock is also nice. I disagree with using the face unlock to authorise purchases etc. as even Face ID has been shown to not be flawless under security scrutiny.

As to your first question, see above. As to touch versus face verus retina biometrics, none are perfect. I have personally found that FaceID is a good balance between security and speed. It does have some retina scanning component from my testing, as with my iPhone XS Max, it will not unlock if it is focused on my face but my eyes are focused on something other than my phone.

[ARikozuM]

That title...

[TechyBen]

14 minutes ago, Murasaki said:

ambient light sensor gesture gimmick v2 gotcha

Well, it's probably a IR pattern blaster and IR camera... but similar thing. The tech exists. *What* to do with it, that's the hard part. *How* to do it well... requires real skill!

[mr moose]

Dear google (and all other phone manufacturers), here the list of feastures I want to see ina phone:

 

1. battery that lasts 2 days normal use

2. screen/case that doesn't break when I look at it sideways

3. fits in my pocket, I feel like I may as well carry a tablet around for the size of phones these days.

4. option to use whichever app store I damn well please. 

 

 

You can stick all other id, a 4 digit pin is enough security for me.

[lewdicrous]

Samsung has entered the chat

[S w a t s o n]

Lets see if this works any better or is any more useful than LG's recent attempt at this.

[rawrdaysgoby]

This would be great for holograms 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Murasaki said:

ambient light sensor gesture gimmick v2 gotcha

 

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Well, it's probably a IR pattern blaster and IR camera... but similar thing. The tech exists. *What* to do with it, that's the hard part. *How* to do it well... requires real skill!

 

I will say, if it actually works, it would be more than a gimmick for those of us who get dirty greasy hands working on engines and with glue n' shit, being able to change the music or answer the phone without touching it or any other device would be awesome.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

 

I will say, if it actually works, it would be more than a gimmick for those of us who get dirty greasy hands working on engines and with glue n' shit, being able to change the music or answer the phone without touching it or any other device would be awesome.

Like when you're soldering and someone calls you... Solder, meet skin... 

Or when cooking.

Or when you're taking a shower. 

Or angry at someone and don't want to take your eyes off of them... 

 

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, SenKa said:

Incorrect, if current leaks are to be believed. The iPhone X was planned to have FaceID and TouchID with an under screen fingerprint reader, and it was put off as the tech wasn't there at the time. The iPhone 11 is said to have both, current leaks reflect that as well. The credability of the leaks aside, Apple does, and always has planned for TouchID and FaceID to exist together.

 

As to your first question, see above. As to touch versus face verus retina biometrics, none are perfect. I have personally found that FaceID is a good balance between security and speed. It does have some retina scanning component from my testing, as with my iPhone XS Max, it will not unlock if it is focused on my face but my eyes are focused on something other than my phone.

Citation please?  Because the closest I've seen to that is analyst reports (not actual leaks) indicating that you might see full-screen fingerprint readers in 2020 or 2021.  Not a one that I've read has showed that this year's iPhone range will have Touch ID, let alone that it'll have both that and Face ID.  You certainly don't have evidence that Apple has "always" planned for the two technologies to coexist.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just that there are some pretty bold claims that need more than just a blanket assertion to be credible.

[DrMacintosh]

4 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

 

 

[jiyeon]

4 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

No notch? You've caught my attention.

[SenKa]

35 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Citation please?  Because the closest I've seen to that is analyst reports (not actual leaks) indicating that you might see full-screen fingerprint readers in 2020 or 2021.  Not a one that I've read has showed that this year's iPhone range will have Touch ID, let alone that it'll have both that and Face ID.  You certainly don't have evidence that Apple has "always" planned for the two technologies to coexist.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh, it's just that there are some pretty bold claims that need more than just a blanket assertion to be credible.

I will correct myself, as rumor may have not been the correct word. There are, however, very strong hints that this is to come.

 

In the quote box below is my post, which I will add notations with sources below it.

 

Quote

Incorrect, if current leaks are to be believed. The iPhone X was planned to have FaceID and TouchID with an under screen fingerprint reader, and it was put off as the tech wasn't there at the time. [1] The iPhone 11 is said to have both, current leaks reflect that as well. [2] The credability of the leaks aside, Apple does, and always has planned for TouchID and FaceID to exist together. [1]

1: "But a source with knowledge of the iPhone X development process told me Apple still worked for months to integrate a fingerprint sensor directly into the device’s display.

By last spring, however, it become clear that the in-display fingerprint sensor wasn’t going to work. The sensors in the prototype iPhone X’s were generating too many false negatives; that is, keeping legitimate users out of their phones." -Fast Company

 

2: " 2020 iPhones will have more significant changes, including 5G support, 3D sensing via the rear camera system, and acoustic fingerprint technology that could allow for full-screen Touch ID"- MacRumors

 

So, I certianly do have evidence that apple always planned to have FaceID and TouchID coexist, as the iPhone X was the first phone to ditch TouchID as well as the first phone to integrate FaceID. I also believe I have thoroughly laid proof to my claim that the iPhone 11 probably will have TouchID, as I said.

[yolosnail]

I remember using the Air Gestures on the Galaxy S4 quite a bit, then getting a different phone and not caring at all that they weren't there

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, SenKa said:

I will correct myself, as rumor may have not been the correct word. There are, however, very strong hints that this is to come.

 

In the quote box below is my post, which I will add notations with sources below it.

 

1: "But a source with knowledge of the iPhone X development process told me Apple still worked for months to integrate a fingerprint sensor directly into the device’s display.

By last spring, however, it become clear that the in-display fingerprint sensor wasn’t going to work. The sensors in the prototype iPhone X’s were generating too many false negatives; that is, keeping legitimate users out of their phones." -Fast Company

 

2: " 2020 iPhones will have more significant changes, including 5G support, 3D sensing via the rear camera system, and acoustic fingerprint technology that could allow for full-screen Touch ID"- MacRumors

 

So, I certianly do have evidence that apple always planned to have FaceID and TouchID coexist, as the iPhone X was the first phone to ditch TouchID as well as the first phone to integrate FaceID. I also believe I have thoroughly laid proof to my claim that the iPhone 11 probably will have TouchID, as I said.

But that's... not what that source actually said.

 

What it said was that Apple had originally looked at under-screen fingerprint readers, found they weren't satisfactory, and switched wholesale to Face ID.  It's not clear that Apple was determined to include both, and it's certainly not clear that Apple wants to offer both.

 

Also, iPhone 11 comes this year unless Apple decides to use some weird naming scheme... so I wouldn't expect Touch ID on what's ultimately another revision of the iPhone X.  And frankly, I'm not wholly convinced that one Barclays analyst with an uncertain track record would know what 2020 iPhones will be like based on supply chain talks.

[SenKa]

Just now, Commodus said:

But that's... not what that source actually said.

 

What it said was that Apple had originally looked at under-screen fingerprint readers, found they weren't satisfactory, and switched wholesale to Face ID.  It's not clear that Apple was determined to include both, and it's certainly not clear that Apple wants to offer both.

From FastCompany, later in the article: "That’s when Apple decided to rely solely on a front-facing laser system for biometric authentication"

The wording of this phrase from the apple rep states that Apple intended to have both forms of biometrics. If Apple decided to "solely rely on a front facing laser system" than there must have been an interim where there were atleast one other biometrics option, or "solely" would not be the correct speech. While there is no in stone proof this other biometric was in screen TouchID, it was the only thing Apple was experimenting with at the time other than FaceID.

[Fnige]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

Dear google (and all other phone manufacturers), here the list of feastures I want to see ina phone:

 

1. battery that lasts 2 days normal use

2. screen/case that doesn't break when I look at it sideways

3. fits in my pocket, I feel like I may as well carry a tablet around for the size of phones these days.

4. option to use whichever app store I damn well please. 

 

 

You can stick all other id, a 4 digit pin is enough security for me.

1. Pretty useful though if you remember your charger then there shouldnt be that much of a problem

2. Please elaborate

3. YES though bigger phones are still good

4. Aint gonna happen

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, yolosnail said:

I remember using the Air Gestures on the Galaxy S4 quite a bit, then getting a different phone and not caring at all that they weren't there

That's what I was thinking of too. Except I didn't use the air gestures on my S4 more than a handful of times.

If you're going to wave your hand in front of the phone you might as well just lower it a few more centimeters and touch the screen. It's far more accurate.

 

 

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

 



Holy crap, you're right!

We all know Apple were the first manufacturer to put a proximity sensor, speaker, microphone, front facing camera and ambient light sensor in a phone so clearly Google are copying them!

I mean, Samsung had all of those things I listed before Apple had, but since Google now has 3 things the iPhone had first (IR camera, flood illuminatior and dot projector) it's clearly Google copying Apple. Oh and let's conveniently ignore the other IR camera, the soli radar and audio port. Please don't focus on those things!

[mr moose]

59 minutes ago, SlimyPython said:

1. Pretty useful though if you remember your charger then there shouldnt be that much of a problem

2. Please elaborate

3. YES though bigger phones are still good

4. Aint gonna happen

 

1.  I get tired of having to take portable batteries with me when I am out all day (big days on busy jobs).

2. I have broken 4 phones in the last 5 years.  Some just from bending over when it's in my pocket and others from dropping them only a few feet onto tiles.

3. I'm not asking them to stop making big phones, just make phones that are small again, I have never broken a sub 4" phone.

4. If you ask me it's anti consumer not being able to buy apps for your device from anywhere, Same with having to buy the same bloody app twice because you have an ios device and an android device, or  a windows device and an android device.

 

 

[williamcll]

Wait for the reviews.