AMD is not done with the bullshit. (Unconfirmed)

[TOMPPIX]

 

With Ryzen 5000 for Desktop now in line with the mobile part numbering, You'd think the mobile 5000 series will be based on ZEN3 as well but, as it turns out, that might not be the case.

 

Quote

A series of reports from Twitter Fellow, ExecutableFix, have emerged regarding AMD's upcoming Ryzen APU lineup which will feature the Zen 3 based Cezanne & Zen 2 based Lucienne APUs. Both lineups will coexist and branded under the Ryzen 5000 family. The latest information not only gives us new insight into the Ryzen 5000 APU lineup but also strengthens previous reports and rumors.

 

i hope this is false, because AMD just increased the price on the zen 3 cpus and now they are fking up the 5000 series mobile cpu, the average customer is not gonna know the difference between zen 2 and zen 3. 

Spoiler

i wouldn't be surprised if the zen 3 non x desktop cpus had a locked multiplier or just limited to a lower frequency than the x versions, like they did with the rx 5600 xt, for those who don't know. the 5600 xt is locked to 1820mhz otherwise it would cannibalize the rx 5700.

 

Sources

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-5000-cezanne-luceinne-zen-3-zen-2-ryzen-7-5800u-5700u-ryzen-5-5600u-5500u-apus-detailed/

https://twitter.com/ExecuFix/status/1317362239125524480

https://twitter.com/ExecuFix/status/1316116576844820481

https://twitter.com/ExecuFix

[WhiteOrb]

I mean, if they declare these APUs as Zen 2 when they release it, they're not faking. Fact is, that the upcoming and announced CPUs on the event are Zen 3.

[LogicalDrm]

*** Thread cleaned ***

 

Stay on topic. This thread follows news guidelines and thats enough for us. If you want to argue about validity of source or their claims, do it based on the topic. Not something which doesn't belong to forums at all.

[SavageNeo]

51 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

because AMD just increased the price on the zen 3 cpus 

probably because they know that they will be good and beat any intel offerings in gaming and workloads.

52 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

and now they are fking up the 5000 series mobile cpu, the average customer is not gonna know the difference between zen 2 and zen 3.

they are not fking up anything. Average customer should do his research before buying. it is not AMDs fault. it is customers fault

[RTX 3090]

So long as people have a look at benchmarks, they know what to expect. Architecture is not going to make a difference if it gives the same performance as expected

[Elisis]

11 minutes ago, SavageNeo said:

they are not fking up anything. Average customer should do his research before buying. it is not AMDs fault. it is customers fault

It always strikes me as odd that consumers go through such measures to defend a company that couldn't give two shits about them. "Let's just blame the consumer for an overly convoluted naming scheme created by AMD, yeah!"

[SavageNeo]

5 minutes ago, Elisis said:

It always strikes me as odd that consumers go through such measures to defend a company that couldn't give two shits about them. "Let's just blame the consumer for an overly convoluted naming scheme created by AMD, yeah!"

Yeah the namig is crap never said that it was good in any way. but anyway customers should always do their research. Do they go AMD or Intel. What cpu is the bets for their needs, etc.

[Elisis]

1 minute ago, SavageNeo said:

Yeah the namig is crap never said that it was good in any way. but anyway customers should always do their research. Do they go AMD or Intel. What cpu is the bets for their needs, etc.

Did I argue that you said it was good? No, I was just calling out your shifting blame onto the consumer when the company is at fault.

[GDRRiley]

so there maybe 2-4 versions of 5000 APUs it isn't anything new to the rumor mill.

RDNA2+zen2

RDNA2+zen3

vega+zen3

vega+zen2

 

meh until we know more nothing exciting

[Master Disaster]

Even if this is true its a storm in a teacup. The Zen 2 based CPUs will likely be the low end SKUs anyway, the type that end up in the £300 or cheaper laptops that parents buy for their kids homework. Nobody buying a machine of that spec is going to care whether the CPU is based on Zen 2 or Zen 3.

 

My guess is they have a fabbing capacity constraint or a yield issue and they don't want to sacrifice yields on the higher end CPUs to manufacture low end stuff they make very little profit on. TSMC is pretty slammed right now.

[Dream Machines Official]

9 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Even if this is true its a storm in a teacup. The Zen 2 based CPUs will likely be the low end SKUs anyway, the type that end up in the £300 or cheaper laptops that parents buy for their kids homework. Nobody buying a machine of that spec is going to care whether the CPU is based on Zen 2 or Zen 3.

 

My guess is they have a fabbing capacity constraint or a yield issue and they don't want to sacrifice yields on the higher end CPUs to manufacture low end stuff they make very little profit on. TSMC is pretty slammed right now.

To my mind AMD will not stop dropping prices even if they have to go Low end for the sake of being ahead of Intel with performance. And Gaming? Well to my mind it's going to stay on Intel's side for a long time in the future

[Vishera]

The manufacturers in mobile market are extremely deceptive,unproportional prices and HUGE profit margins.

 

Apple = selling $200 worth of hardware for $1000 (Did you really think the manufacturing costs are that much higher than the desktop market?!)

And don't forget that they used to sell dual-cores for $1000 especially in 2018!

 

AMD = All of their offerings in the lase decade were either weak crap,or extremely over-priced stuff.

I mean silicon is silicon,It doesn't make any sense that the 3700X significantly outperforms anything on the mobile market yet it's significantly cheaper!

 

Intel = Calling some-dual cores "i7" is not OK,and it has the same price problem as AMD.

 

Nvidia = When a $700 GTX 1660 desktop system beats a $2000 RTX 2070 mobile laptop,no further explanation needed.

 

Most laptop manufacturers = fans barely work,and temperatures get high,Why did you install fans in the first place if you don't use them?!

Also they design their products to be disposable...

 

There are many more problems with the laptop industry,it's very cancerous and anti-consumer preying on the lack of care of Gen Z (most of them don't care).

[Dream Machines Official]

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

The manufacturers in mobile market are extremely deceptive,unproportional prices and HUGE profit margins.

 

Apple = selling $200 worth of hardware for $1000 (Did you really think the manufacturing costs are that much higher than the desktop market?!)

And don't forget that they used to sell dual-cores for $1000 especially in 2018!

 

AMD = All of their offerings in the lase decade were either weak crap,or extremely over-priced stuff.

I mean silicon is silicon,It doesn't make any sense that the 3700X significantly outperforms anything on the mobile market yet it's significantly cheaper!

 

Intel = Calling some-dual cores "i7" is not OK,and it has the same price problem as AMD.

 

Nvidia = When a $700 GTX 1660 desktop system beats a $2000 RTX 2070 mobile laptop,no further explanation needed.

 

Most laptop manufacturers = fans barely work,and temperatures get high,Why did you install fans in the first place if you don't use them?!

Also they design their products to be disposable...

 

There are many more problems with the laptop industry,it's very cancerous and anti-consumer preying on the lack of care of Gen Z (most of them don't care).

Apple has gone even further now. They are selling Iphone 12 without the adapter. Come on customer go and spend another 40-50 USD or soo..

in addition 120Hz refresh rate screen was supposed to be an advantege now the only advantage we are left with is... 5G. Because in my opinion TBH releasing smaller version of the iphone is nothing new.

[GDRRiley]

5 minutes ago, Vishera said:

The manufacturers in mobile market are extremely deceptive,unproportional prices and HUGE profit margins.

there aren't huge margins in it. maybe if your dell getting large kickbacks from intel and 2$ windows from Microsoft you'll hit a decent double digit.

yes ram and storage is way to much but most other items aren't crazy markups

[LAwLz]

People like to give Intel a bunch of crap for their naming schemes but honestly, AMD is not better in my mind. Might even be worse, even ignoring the scummy things like naming their platform the same as what Intel was going to name their platform (Intel had a 170 chipset, a 270 chipset, and then AMD released the 370 to fuck up for Intel).

For example, if you buy a computer with a Ryzen 3000 series CPU, it might be Zen, Zen+ or a Zen 2 processor. They have three CPU generations using the same series of names.

 

Let's hope they stick with only Zen 3 CPUs in the 5000 series. It makes way more sense for us consumers to be able to tell which generation of CPU cores we get by just looking at the name of the CPU.

[Vishera]

11 minutes ago, Dream Machines Official said:

the only advantage we are left with is... 5G

Even with LTE we get amazing speeds,who the hell needs 1Gb for a phone?!

7 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

there aren't huge margins in it. maybe if your dell getting large kickbacks from intel and 2$ windows from Microsoft you'll hit a decent double digit.

yes ram and storage is way to much but most other items aren't crazy markups

Nope,you are wrong.

Explain to me how a cheap-ass laptop motherboard with cheap VRMs costs more to manufacturer than a high-end desktop motherboard?

Or the cheap RAM,or DRAMless SSDs they put there?

And a cheap laptop LCD doesn't cost as much as a gaming monitor.

Or the GPUs that use the same silicon as the desktop (as matter of fact they use the inferior quality silicon for laptops).

The same TU104 is sold for 700$ on the desktop,but on laptops the lower quality and power limited TU104 is part of a $2200 laptop?!

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Even with LTE we get amazing speeds,who the hell needs 1Gb for a phone?!

People said similar things when we got to 1GHz CPUs (single core at that).

Who the hell needs a 1GHz processor in their desktop?!

 

Never say no to technological progress, even if you think you don't need it today. Your opinion of how useful something is is entirely based on your previous use cases. Those use cases might change as technology enables us to do more. But in order for new technologies that take advantages of let's say higher bandwidth to get developed, we need the infrastructure and capabilities to do so. Otherwise it becomes a chicken and egg problem, where nobody is interested in developing things that require high speed cellular data because "our customer base is 0 because nobody has the speeds necessary to use our product so we won't even develop it in the first place" and "nobody needs this fast Internet conenction so let's just stick with the one we already have and don't improve on it".

[Dream Machines Official]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

People said similar things when we got to 1GHz CPUs (single core at that).

Who the hell needs a 1GHz processor in their desktop?!

 

Never say no to technological progress, even if you think you don't need it today. Your opinion of how useful something is is entirely based on your previous use cases. Those use cases might change as technology enables us to do more. But in order for new technologies that take advantages of let's say higher bandwidth to get developed, we need the infrastructure and capabilities to do so. Otherwise it becomes a chicken and egg problem, where nobody is interested in developing things that require high speed cellular data because "our customer base is 0 because nobody has the speeds necessary to use our product so we won't even develop it in the first place" and "nobody needs this fast Internet conenction so let's just stick with the one we already have and don't improve on it".

So the conclusion is simple here. It's best to buy a piece of equipment today and spend a little bit more on it powerful version of the CPU, GPU or more RAM than regret it 3 years later and have to spend even more money to get a higher config...

[Blademaster91]

The naming schemes aren't nearly as bad as the sku's Intel came up with for Tiger Lake, for example the i7 1185G7. It's a 4 core/ 8thread part yet Intel calls it an i7.

 

[MageTank]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

People said similar things when we got to 1GHz CPUs (single core at that).

Who the hell needs a 1GHz processor in their desktop?!

 

Never say no to technological progress, even if you think you don't need it today. Your opinion of how useful something is is entirely based on your previous use cases. Those use cases might change as technology enables us to do more. But in order for new technologies that take advantages of let's say higher bandwidth to get developed, we need the infrastructure and capabilities to do so. Otherwise it becomes a chicken and egg problem, where nobody is interested in developing things that require high speed cellular data because "our customer base is 0 because nobody has the speeds necessary to use our product so we won't even develop it in the first place" and "nobody needs this fast Internet conenction so let's just stick with the one we already have and don't improve on it".

I'll be bold enough to say we can go ahead and remove the "might" from your statement and double down on them absolutely being worse with their naming conventions. AMD is intentional with their naming. They do it on purpose with the intent to confuse the consumers into believing their product is superior (Which is weird, because all signs are pointing to this being true without the shenanigans being required). Intel releases Z270, AMD releases X370. Intel releases X299, AMD releases X399. I can't imagine how many poor retail workers had to deal with explaining the difference between X370 and Z370 and why they were different motherboards for different processors. 

 

AMD also has no problem confusing their own customers within their own product stacks, as evidenced by their APU's. You have the 2200G/2400G based on the original Zen architecture despite sharing the same name as the Zen+ CPU's, the 3200G/3400G based on the Zen+ architectures despite sharing the same nomenclature as the Zen 2 CPU's and you have the 4000 series APU's that were based on Zen 2, which the average consumer would assume was automatically better than the desktop 3000 series just because of the logic of "bigger number = better".

 

My favorite quote on this subject came from @Rohith_Kumar_Sp

On 10/8/2020 at 3:05 PM, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

Welcome to the 5000 series, the 4th generation of Ryzen, known as Zen 3

 

Now this isn't to say Intel isn't bad at naming things (We almost had the 9900KFC and a man can still dream), or that Nvidia isn't bad either (RTX 3080 Ti Super Max Q Titan X Quadro Tesla X2 6GB Edition), but AMD is still the king and has been for quite some time now, both in CPU and GPU markets. We went from the RX 500 series to the Vega 56/64 to the Radeon VII to the 6000 series. If someone could explain this to me, I am all ears, lol.

 

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

The naming schemes aren't nearly as bad as the sku's Intel came up with for Tiger Lake, for example the i7 1185G7. It's a 4 core/ 8thread part yet Intel calls it an i7.

 

You trying to make us feel old? That was just a few years ago, lol.

[spartaman64]

what's the difference between renior and lucienne 

[Fatih19]

Quote

upcoming Ryzen APU lineup which will feature the Zen 3 based Cezanne & Zen 2 based Lucienne APUs

@spartaman64

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, Fatih19 said:

@spartaman64

yeah but renior is zen 2

[Fatih19]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

yeah but renior is zen 2

Exactly, that's why the naming scheme is confusing.

[Arika]

5 hours ago, SavageNeo said:

they are not fking up anything. Average customer should do his research before buying. it is not AMDs fault. it is customers fault

funny how no other company is afforded the same "defense"

I distinctly remember people raking NVidia over the coals when it came to the GT 1030 and the DDR4+ GDDR5 variations