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Github changes branching terminology.

pcs3rd
By pcs3rd
in Tech News
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Posted

im not against the master slave term change but the blacklist whitelist change is a bit weird since its referring to the black book 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

Politics from the beginning is about making people agree on stuff that can cause conflicts (with "policy"). You can expand this up to between countries, or shrink it down to following your partner's preference in order to be uh, reproductive later. It's really not rocket science.

It's more accurate to say that politics is about ideologies and people using propaganda to promote their ideology or force it on others.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Eigenvektor said:

You can't really treat another person as a slave, while also respecting them as a human being. Meaning a slave is pretty much always seen as "lesser". You are right that master/slave can apply to any person, regardless of race, color, gender, etc. but it is often based on discrimination against "something" (including race).

 

I honestly don't care if the principal development branch of my project is labeled as "master" or "main". It may be a pain for existing projects and require some time to get used to it, but overall it doesn't really matter.

Right but in the sense of the word being used for this it is saying one thing has more control over the other. As one is a master and the other thing is it's slave. It's the proper use of the words and has no affiliation with a race or anything like that. The same applies to other words like retard. You can retard the cam timing in a car or retard off the throttle but if I was to call someone a retard it's not okay at all. Like I said before I don't care if they change it I just am failing to see how it connects to racism or was used improperly. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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just as retarded as mozilla wasting 15k to remove all slave terminology in their documentation, APIs and tests

 

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"We also wanted to get on board the PR train but didn't want to do the same thing as everyone else"

 

This is stupid. Anyone reading this far into programming terms needs a reality check. All this is going to do is create more confusion about programming/computer terms, and it's not like we're short on confusion atm. 

That's an F in the profile pic

 

 

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1 hour ago, pcs3rd said:

Within the last few days, github has decided that the Terms 'master' and 'slave' with 'main' and so-on. The decision was odly made as a tweeted suggestion.

There are currently arguments on twitter on wether or not that this is a distraction from black equality or a step forward.

 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/github-to-replace-master-with-alternative-term-to-avoid-slavery-references/

 

Personally, I think this is dumb and it will break everyone's automation  scripts.

 

That's a very, very, minor thing and is unlikely to matter. Master-Slave terminology was typically used for device addressing or software duplication/replication systems, and a more accurate term would have been "simon says", where in especially SQL replication, you only want the replication server to listen to changes made to Server A, and in a round-robin replication system, you want Server B to copy everything Server A does EXCEPT what Server A copies from Server B.

 

With software development, a lot of "master" builds or "mastering" systems are simply denotes a storage path. There is no "slave" component. There's clone and check-out systems and pull requests. None of this denotes any connection to slavery, just which build component contains all the accepted checked in changes. It could easily have been called anything else.

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9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Right but in the sense of the word being used for this it is saying one thing has more control over the other. As one is a master and the other thing is it's slave. It's the proper use of the words and has no affiliation with a race or anything like that. The same applies to other words like retard. You can retard the cam timing in a car or retard off the throttle but if I was to call someone a retard it's not okay at all. Like I said before I don't care if they change it I just am failing to see how it connects to racism or was used improperly. 

Yeah, I'm with you. I've used these terms for years and not once associated them with race or anything. I don't care enough to object to the change but I can understand that some people might feel strongly about it (in either direction).

 

But since @VegetableStu pointed it out, I can't help but feel that this is mostly a distraction from much more serious problems that need to be solved (but probably won't). Here we are spending lots of time and effort to quarrel about words, while there's still people out there being beaten to death, forgotten next to "master" vs "main".

Remember to either quote or @mention others, so they are notified of your reply

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1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

Politics from the beginning is about making people agree on stuff that can cause conflicts (with "policy").

Policies ≠ politics

 

Politics is a word use in relation to governance, if you feel like your relationships is all about governance, or policies, I honestly pity you ; that must be a very sad life to live.

 

Yes, politics are involved into what policies are going to be applied or not (in relation to the government, not so much with the topic at hand though), but they are NOT the same thing, and implying that politics is part of having a life partner is a rather twisted way of presenting things. Having a spouse / boyfriend / girlfriend / etc., is about having mutual relationship, policies are a set of rules to follow and as I mentioned, politics is about governance... so I'm 100% failing to see the connection you're trying to make (like 100%, not trying to antagonize or anything, I really am astonished at your comparaison).

 

 

With that said, this has NOTHING to do with politics, GitHub decided to make a change in the terminology they use, and while it may be because of recent events, Mozilla did this over 4 years ago, and so I don't see why people are getting offended by this. If that's all people have to complain about, then you're pretty lucky in life, not gonna lie! ;)

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Anyone who  associates the term master in this sense with slavery is looking for something to be offended over.  There is no logical or rational reason to make such a lateral leap other than trying to prop up an old ideal that people have left in the past.

 

EDIT: just another note, if you go changing the terminology people use in complex activities you simply introduce confusion.  people already use the main as terminology to describe other aspects of progressive design processes.  The next step here is to try and change all language that insinuates gender (no more plugs and sockets) sorry EE and mechanics, no more ownership talk, no one is allowed to say anything that could be even remotely laterally linked to race talk.   It's just silliness. and it will lead to nothing of any value.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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What a pointless and utterly shallow gesture.

 

This is the exact same shit as that Jenner girl handing the police a Pepsi and racism was over.

 

This solves nothing. No one associates the word 'master' with slavery. I could MAYBE see 'slave' but Git doesn't use that terminology. There's literally no reason for this.

 

It's meaningless.

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2 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

It's also kind of funny how GitHub was singled out. They're just one among many git hosters (like GitLab, Bitbucket, …). Of course there's still a lot of people who mistakenly think GitHub = git…

That's because gitlab hasn't bothered yet. 

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So glad a global platform has to change a few words just to stay PC for a small subsection of America. 

 

There is no one that would be using github that saw master/slave in the terminology and thought "oh, git uses these words, therefore slavery was actually OK and an amazing thing" 

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4 hours ago, Eigenvektor said:

Yes, primary/secondary makes no sense for git. Read the Ars article: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/openzfs-removed-master-slave-terminology-from-its-codebase/

 

They're suggesting to replace master/slave with more descriptive terms. That doesn't mean primary/secondary is the best fit in all cases, just that it was a good fit for DNS.

 

Creating a branch from the master branch or the main branch is the same difference to me. I've never seen a branch called "slave" though. Our branches are typically called "feature/<whatever>". The master branch contains the latest code, stuff gets developed in feature branches that go back into master once they're done.

What would you suggest would be a more descriptive term? I feel that master describes it perfectly, since when a branch is first created, it is essentially a clone of the master branch, and the master branch is imo better described as a master copy. 

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For what it's worth, I know some big companies already use names other than master for their primary branch, for reasons unrelated to this. There is no reason, other than convention, why the default branch should be called master - the default branch is just whatever is in the file .git/HEAD on the git server (or, for bare repositories, just HEAD). It will break some existing guides, but only to the extent that they need to swap master for main. You can already configure the default branch in GitHub

Spoiler

image.png

(from my fork of an open source project).

 

Whether the change is necessary or not is a different matter, and one which I don't want to get involved in, but the change itself is totally possible without much collateral impact.

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7 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

isn't the master-slave computing terminology.... super old? o_o

 

also why only disuse it now? sure, the confederates were the ones perpetrating slavery and racism, and their symbols and statues should (and must) not be glorified in public anymore, but why only now change a term that's so far removed from the confederates, and why this specific leap in connection (rather than anything else in history)?

 

also also:

 

... i don't want it to come to the point where the concept of colour is not politically correct ._. like i don't know how to measure however much a overreaction this might be (in terms of etymology)

I get why people get iffy about it but it's really a good descriptor for a lot of relations in software and hardware. Take something like an SPI or I2C bus. You typically have one device that issues commands and controls the bus and then several devices that do nothing other than what they're told to do. Now if there was more intercommunication such as both devices issuing commands to each other than a worker device might be more accurate but with the one way street as it is 'master' and 'slave' are without a doubt the more accurate vernacular. It comes down to the hierarchy are all things equal or is one above the rest. 

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Are they going to change the terminology of my Hard drives as well? 
masterslave.jpg

Spoiler

/s

 

Jokes aside I think people are making way too big of a change in words. 

And no I would not rather have my files snooped by the government by changing to GitLab.

 

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43 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Are they going to change the terminology of my Hard drives as well? 
masterslave.jpg

  Hide contents

/s

 

Jokes aside I think people are making way too big of a change in words. 

And no I would not rather have my files snooped by the government by changing to GitLab.

 

For me it really isn't about the literal change in words. This matters more about the why github is doing it and the effects of them preforming said action.

It is an unnecessary change that, in reality, is only being preformed because the bubbles in the boiling pot that America is started flowing over the brim.

It doesn't effect or reduce police brutality, nor racism on the internet and on the streets. It doesn't change white on black or black on black violence, or actually any violence.

 

The change isn't because it would only help developers (that use github) as a whole, but because it may bring good press, or press at all. And it has.

 

Depending on implementation (if the default changes and 'master' aren't kept as an alias as mentioned by others), they break scripts. Lots of 'em. 

 

Please understand that this is my pov, and I hope this explains why I thought it was worth my time to put it over here. It may just be extremely poor timing on GitHub's part. I really do apologise if this comes through as an emotionally charged reply.

Edited by pcs3rd
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Daily reminder that slavery is/was a human problem, not a black/US problem. Black people in the US are not from the only slaves that ever existed and every race has been enslaved. Another daily reminder that this master/slave terminology is used in every country that isn't the US as well, just translated.

Black people in the US need to stop thinking that literally any mention of the word slave is a racial injustice or somehow related to them in any way. I say this as a person of black heritage, not that being black makes your opinion on slavery as a concept more or less valid.

 

I dont really care about Github in particular but if this becomes a trend it's going to get silly really fast. Master/slave is a very accurate way of way denoting that one object controls the second (identical or close enough) object without the second object being able to control the first object or receive instructions from anything other than the first object. We wont be able to just switch over to "main" for most things and what's the replacement word for the slave, backup? that's not gonna work chief

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Okay this is seriously dumb. I've always considered the master branch to be equivalent with a master craftsmen rather than something relating to slavery. I guess the next step in this insanity is for Disney to retroactively remove Jedi and Sith Masters from all of Star Wars cause "Master" == "bad word" now for some illogical reason.

 

Words are at the end of the day just a randomish collections of sounds which we for some reason agreed mean something and in this case the meaning did not relate to slavery or racism in any way. That link had been severed decades ago making changes like this completely dumb.

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Lol this doesn't change a thing for me, it's still "git chec[tab] m[tab]"

This is a signature.

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Meh. "Master" and "slave" are very understandtable and descriptive terms when it comes to tech and, surprisingly, has fuck all to do with human slavery. But what do I know? I'm not one of these hypersensitive people who insist on getting offended by every single little thing and then demanding everyone else bend over to please them.

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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Whenever a change is made, and this goes for ANY change, not just computer related, the pros and cons should be looked at and a decision should be made based on that.

 

Pros of this change:

1) It makes some people more comfortable, I think. Haven't seen anybody but white people cheery this change on yet but according to them it will make black developers more at ease.

2) ??? Something I am missing? I guess "main is shorter than master" is somewhat valid but we are realllly scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

 

Cons of this change:

1) It makes some documentation outdated.

2) Changing established terminology will inevitably cause some amount of confusion.

3) This will cause issues with code. The word "master" is hard coded into git (the program where github gets its name from) in at least 778 different places. And that's just one program. If this change is made, it has the potential to break hundreds of thousands of programs that interact with Github.

4) It makes some people less comfortable. By taking offense to neutral terms like master (yes, master is a neutral term and does not refer to master/slave in most of the definitions of the word) we are forcing others to associate the word with a bad meaning. I saw a black developer on Twitter say that this change made him feel uncomfortable because he had never made the slavery association before, but now he won't be able to stop thinking about it.

5) Causes unrest and uproar in the developer community.

 

 

Personally I think this change is terrible and should never be made. It's clearly a witch hunt and a stupid PR move.

Also, I feel like this is a slippery slope. I hate to make that argument but it really seems like it. Back when Ruby on Rails moved away from the master/slave terminology some other developer chipped in that things like "killer app" was offensive too, and the suggestion seem to have been taken seriously.

 

Since they are also going after "whitelist" and "blacklist" now, I would say that these people will never be fully satisfied and will keep complaining. Once "master" and "slave" are all gone, and all references to "white" or "black" are gone, what's next? Anything that can be related to vagina or penises? Can't use the word "hole" or "rod" anymore. Socket? Totally a sexist term because some people might think of a vagina. Connector? Same thing there.

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2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Master/replica? That's not even applicable to most of the things that we use master/slave for in tech! Fuck me!

1075032593_multifingersalute.gif.f4daae6a1fab8ee7d9d1da779dfaa3d8.gif

Hand, n. A singular instrument worn at the end of the human arm and commonly thrust into somebody’s pocket.

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