COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[captain_to_fire]

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Also relates to the nature of a virus being able to live in just about any organism (Doesn't have to make them sick for it to thrive) and how it can be reintroduced into the populace at any time.

Viruses are dead when outside of a living cell. To be called a living organism, it has to be able to replicate by itself.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

BTW to be fair, there are arguements for both sides of it and I'm not going to advocate for either side of it - Getting the shot or not, it should be your choice.
COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

Natural Immunity vs. Vaccine-Acquired Immunity: Which Is Better?

Getting Covid for a lot of people is not as mild as getting chicken pox and remain immune afterwards. Antibody levels from past Covid infection wanes over time. Also there are documented cases of people with past infections succumbing to severe infections afterwards.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

You are incorrect about one thing - The virus CAN still be spread to and between folks, vaccinated OR not, that's already been said as fact by the medical guys.
And it's legitamate to mandate something because it's a social issue?
Where are we living - In the old USSR?

I don't want to delve into politics and focus on science instead. The viral load for both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals when it comes to the delta variant are the same and there are indeed cases of "breakthrough infections" among vaccinated individuals. However, the vaccines are still protective against severe illness and death.

8 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Just because you haven't taken a shot doesn't mean you don't have immunity period as an absolute, by how it's represented by the media, drawing a hardline between the two cases of whether you did or didn't get the shot.
Yes, I have a problem with that - A big one.

It's quite easy to justify bein naturally infected with Covid when there are not plenty of people dying from it. All I know is that vaccinated people have a way lesser chances of succumbing to severe infections and death.

 

8 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

And I'm sorry, these masks don't do squat to stop it.
It's like this:

-snip-

For the record, underwear is not meant to stop farts. In men especially, it's purpose is to keep ones dick and balls in place and to prevent those embarrassing moments when one goes commando in public. Masks are meant to prevent the spread of droplets carrying the virus and other germs. Just because it has been proven that the coronavirus can be transmitted over the air doesn't mean that masks are useless. Remember that the primary vector still for Covid is through respiratory droplets.

 

8 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

It's a frickin virus and being what it is, it can live in about any organism such as your pet dog, cat, the wildlife around you.... And even if it's "Beaten" as they say, all it would take is a simple mosquito bite to reintroduce it from an infected animal back to a human.
And if you want to go out and vaccinate all the wildlife, go ahead and get started already.....
Those animals ain't gonna stick themselves you know and there's plenty of them too.

I mean I can use what you said to debunk your sentiments. Rabies can live in my mom's cat so why bother vaccinate her yearly for rabies? And also, you're confusing Dengue fever and Malaria to Covid. There is such a thing as tropism and coronavirus can't be transmitted by mosquitoes. I have yet to see a mosquito expressing the ACE2 receptor. And just because viruses continue to mutate (which is what they do best) doesn't mean we shouldn't protect ourselves from it.

8 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

The purpose of a vaccine is to introduce the virus in a weakened form so the body detects it, then works to destroy it BUT immunity also works when you get it and beat it.
In both cases whether it's aquired by natural or medical means you have immunity - Period and both are on par with each other, it's not like the vaccine does anything special aside from introducing the weakened form of it to kick-start the immune system anyway.

Actually vaccines does something different that being infected with the real SARS-Cov-2: you're adaptive immune system develops specific defenses without making you sick. Can't have that with natural infection. I mean would you like to get paralyzed first before getting protected against polio? 

• mRNA and adenovector vaccines: it gives your body the cookbook to make the spike protein which your immune cells to combat against.
• inactivated and subunit vaccines: it gives your immune system the main course to learn

 

[WindirBear]

12 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

 

Jesus, are you serious ?

 

Do you not understand that without the vaccine, you're a lot more contagious than if you're not (except for the Delta variant), and that by not being vaccinated, you're helping with the potential creation of new variants ?

 

You can spin it all you want, but again ; it's a PUBLIC health issue, nothing in the decision you're making is affecting you and you alone, this is only an excuse.

I'm not really spinning it. This argument can go back and forth. This is why it's controversial. I just want my choices respected. I understand people should get vaccinated and I'm not telling people they shouldn't. I also understand why many are not. I also know that there are crazy people that believe crazy things about the vaccine. Soo as I mentioned in the first post, many vaccinated people do not share this sentiment of understanding.

[WindirBear]

10 hours ago, Commodus said:

To spin wkdpaul's take a bit:

 

Vaccinating yourself greatly reduces the chances of getting infected in the first place. When you hear about talk of vaccinated people spreading the virus, that's in cases of breakthrough infections — that minority of people for whom the vaccine wasn't effective enough (apparently a significant minority, but clearly so). And even if you are infected, you'll likely have gentler symptoms that reduce the chances of transmission. 

 

Besides... do you have anyone who depends on you? Even if full vaccination didn't significantly reduce the chances of spreading the virus to people around you, I'm pretty sure your roommate, partner, kids or similar connections would very much care what happened to you. It's easy to claim it's "still a personal choice" if you're a single 20-something whose only dependent is a houseplant; it's another if you hobble an entire family because you were more concerned with "personal choice" than being responsible.

 

The vaccines are effective and safe. It only takes a few minutes to get a dose (plus 15 minutes of just-in-case observation). And the consequences of falling ill with the virus are much, much worse than the minor inconvenience of feeling a bit unwell for a day. So what obstacles do you really have?

 

You're under the impression that I don't understand the consequences of not being vaccinated. This is what I mean when people that aren't vaccinated are looked at as morons by the vaccinated. Everything you said is not new information. Please, allow people to take responsibility for their actions.

[lewdicrous]

[tikker]

5 hours ago, WindirBear said:

I'm not really spinning it. This argument can go back and forth. This is why it's controversial. I just want my choices respected. I understand people should get vaccinated and I'm not telling people they shouldn't. I also understand why many are not. I also know that there are crazy people that believe crazy things about the vaccine. Soo as I mentioned in the first post, many vaccinated people do not share this sentiment of understanding.

5 hours ago, WindirBear said:

You're under the impression that I don't understand the consequences of not being vaccinated. This is what I mean when people that aren't vaccinated are looked at as morons by the vaccinated. Everything you said is not new information.

I respect that you have a choice, but it's a willfully ignorant one and neglectful to society and your surroundings. You'll have to respect that opinion on that as well. I have to be blunt here: if you truly, and I mean truly, understand why you should get vaccinated, the consequences of not doing so, and you are not one of those crazy people believing crazy things about the vaccine, why aren't you getting vaccinated?

5 hours ago, WindirBear said:

Please, allow people to take responsibility for their actions.

There's one problem: you can't.

 

If this choice only affected the people themselves it would have been no problem, but it doesn't. It affects the world. The only way for people to "take responsibility" is to get vaccinated. How do you plan to take responsibility for endangering people's lives, potentially killing those that actually cannot get the vaccine for either medical reasons or because it doesn't work on them (and even vaccinated people to an extent)? For bringing about another mutation; more infectious or potentially resistant to our vaccines, undoing all the progress we've made? I repeat this isn't even completely about protecting you or your neighbour, it's also to stop the virus from evolving so we can keep it under control.

 

It sounds harsh, but that is the reality of it. Studies have already found that e.g. herd immunity is highly unlikely to put it nicely, exactly because not enough people were taking the vaccine and new variants keep popping up.

 

[Commodus]

8 hours ago, WindirBear said:

You're under the impression that I don't understand the consequences of not being vaccinated. This is what I mean when people that aren't vaccinated are looked at as morons by the vaccinated. Everything you said is not new information. Please, allow people to take responsibility for their actions.

So why aren't you vaccinated, then? Unless you have a relevant medical condition, there are no logical, objective reasons for turning down the vaccines. They're effective, they're safe, they're free and they're easy to get; getting vaccinated not only protects you, but those you care about; the virus' Delta variant is both much more transmissible and more dangerous to younger victims.

[lewdicrous]

[Falkentyne]

13 hours ago, WindirBear said:

You're under the impression that I don't understand the consequences of not being vaccinated. This is what I mean when people that aren't vaccinated are looked at as morons by the vaccinated. Everything you said is not new information. Please, allow people to take responsibility for their actions.

 

May want to watch this.  Hope you do.  Because this person had covid before.  

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/08/25/colorado-fitness-coach-coronavirus-vaccine-affil-pkg-vpx.kusa

[lewdicrous]

2 hours ago, lewdicrous said:

Those are the latest figures that I found for this university/hospital.

Here are a few more figures from previous days:

[tikker]

15 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Those are the latest figures that I found for this university/hospital.

Here are a few more figures from previous days:

They should broadcast this kind of stuff on normal national news everywhere. No special press conferences or anything, just literally show people that it's effective. You beautifully see the statistics at work here: pfizer claims >95% effectiveness; hospital admissions, ICU and ventilators all show <1% vaccinated people. Denying it at this point makes as much sense as claiming a red car is blue. Not taking it is in my mind the same as going out naked in -20 C saying yeah I know clothes work, but I can take it (except in this case you'd also have a -20 C force field around you chilling everyone else).

[Falkentyne]

Just wanted to add something since it happened to me before I got my 2nd vaccine shot.  And I haven't seen a single news article or post even mention this specifically.

Loss /reduction of taste can also show loss of sensitivity to "cold" drinks as well.  Like you drink some almost frozen lemonade that you put in the freezer, in a cup, so ice crystals start forming but it's not frozen yet, and then take it out to drink it, and yet it feels like normal refrigerated drink that you left outside at room temperature for 30 minutes, like you can neither taste the flavor nor "feel" the coldness of the drink, almost as if your entire senses are numb or something.

 

It's miserable trying to enjoy food or drink when it feels like that.

[tikker]

12 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

Just wanted to add something since it happened to me before I got my 2nd vaccine shot.  And I haven't seen a single news article or post even mention this specifically.

What was the time between the two shots? When did this happen exactly? Was it soon after your first shot or arbitrarily in between?

12 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

Loss /reduction of taste can also show loss of sensitivity to "cold" drinks as well.  Like you drink some almost frozen lemonade that you put in the freezer, in a cup, so ice crystals start forming but it's not frozen yet, and then take it out to drink it, and yet it feels like normal refrigerated drink that you left outside at room temperature for 30 minutes, like you can neither taste the flavor nor "feel" the coldness of the drink, almost as if your entire senses are numb or something.

 

It's miserable trying to enjoy food or drink when it feels like that.

Interesting effect. Which vaccine did you get? Was it similar for hot drinks?

 

[Edit] Oh wait, you probably didn't imply the vaccine had this side effect. Questions are still interesting though. If it was an mRNA one you may have caught COVID in between in a cruel twist of fate, as they can't cause COVID since there is no live virus.

[Quackers101]

28 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

Just wanted to add something since it happened to me before I got my 2nd vaccine shot.  And I haven't seen a single news article or post even mention this specifically.

Loss /reduction of taste can also show loss of sensitivity to "cold" drinks as well.  Like you drink some almost frozen lemonade that you put in the freezer, in a cup, so ice crystals start forming but it's not frozen yet, and then take it out to drink it, and yet it feels like normal refrigerated drink that you left outside at room temperature for 30 minutes, like you can neither taste the flavor nor "feel" the coldness of the drink, almost as if your entire senses are numb or something.

 

It's miserable trying to enjoy food or drink when it feels like that.

"since it happened to me before i got my second one", as in maybe getting covid on your first vaccine?

Has it been long with these symptoms? please try messaging your doctor about your experience.

Since covid at least, can affect your smelling ability, it could be likely there is some that can attack other parts like the nerves that senses coldness (maybe hotness too, which can be problems if unaware). Either its blocking the information going to the brain about this "pain" and maybe other pains too, or if its something else wrong or attacking another place. Just hope you brush your teeth and stay healthy, could be issues if you start with other symptoms too.

 

But I guess you have taken the 2nd shot now? not sure if you have taken the days or what changed (a bit personal questions) and if the vaccine sort of helps and hopefully not long term damage.

[IkeaGnome]

Apparently in my two weeks basically off the grid a new fad popped up. 

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/08/26/some-alaska-feed-stores-are-out-of-a-livestock-dewormer-because-people-bought-it-to-treat-covid-19-health-officials-say-thats-a-really-bad-idea/

Please, don't take horse dewormer to cure COVID. Yes the active ingredient can be prescribed to people, but those tubes are for horses. For the non Americans here, 1 tube works for 453 kg of horse, not a 91kg person...

[Sarra]

COVID is making it really, really obvious that you just can't cure stupid.

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, Sarra said:

COVID is making it really, really obvious that you just can't cure stupid.

The problem is especially in the US, the whole Covid thing has be politicized to all hell. Once things become a political issue in this country people loose their fucking minds. Because then its less about doing it because of X, and more about doing it or not doing it because you're stating by your political party.

[Falkentyne]

1 hour ago, Quackers101 said:

"since it happened to me before i got my second one", as in maybe getting covid on your first vaccine?

Has it been long with these symptoms? please try messaging your doctor about your experience.

Since covid at least, can affect your smelling ability, it could be likely there is some that can attack other parts like the nerves that senses coldness (maybe hotness too, which can be problems if unaware). Either its blocking the information going to the brain about this "pain" and maybe other pains too, or if its something else wrong or attacking another place. Just hope you brush your teeth and stay healthy, could be issues if you start with other symptoms too.

 

But I guess you have taken the 2nd shot now? not sure if you have taken the days or what changed (a bit personal questions) and if the vaccine sort of helps and hopefully not long term damage.

No, I had covid *again* (I had it last year also, but with different symptoms).

I had mild symptoms around the time I got the first shot, which started -before- the shot.

And I lost sense of taste and had strange lesions in my mouth, which is a symptom when you lose taste.

and almost no sensibility to cold drinks.

Taste partially returned the week before the second shot, including a few days where things tasted "too" sweet, then I lost taste temporarily again after the 2nd shot and felt like I got hit by a truck for a short time.  Then all taste returned and I can finally enjoy food and lemonade and honey again.

 

I really don't like talking about this stuff because its embarrassing.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

2nd shot and felt like I got hit by a truck for a short time.

The second shot was a doozy for many. My dad felt a bit ill after as well, but was good within a day. I only had a very sore arm after the second that lasted a few days. 

 

4 minutes ago, Falkentyne said:

really don't like talking about this stuff because its embarrassing.

Dont be embarrassed. The info you provide could save someones life. Plus is a medical condition you cant control. Even if you were very careful you could be exposed at any time. I worked the entire pandemic, who knows if I was exposed or not. I know people who have had it, and I know that friends of the family have died from it. All you can do is do the best you can, and protect your self as you feel is necessary. 

[leadeater]

22 hours ago, tikker said:

For bringing about another mutation; more infectious or potentially resistant to our vaccines, undoing all the progress we've made?

Just on this note, generally the way nature works is the strongest survives so when it comes to viral mutations each one is typically "worse" in some way to which it mutated from. If we're lucky it will only mutate to be vaccine resilient and not also in other ways.

 

This sort of thing has been a long standing issue for antibiotics, because of vast and ongoing misuse of them bacterial resistance to antibiotics is at near critical levels and we actually have very few effective options left. Most common colds are viral not bacterial yet most people seek a pharmaceutical/antibiotic option to treat it and will not accept that the most appropriate option is simply nothing and let your body take care of it. Secondary infections are of course a thing but again unless serious antibiotic intervention is not an outright requirement by the mere fact you have one.

 

There are other problems that relate to the above however that are not directly medical care related at all, and that is sick leave entitlements. Many seek out options for quick cures because they either have none or pathetically low amount. I'm very lucky as my employer has a policy of if you are sick then you are not welcome at work, there is no defined sick leave limit only abuse of sick leave checks.

 

So like above it's actually incredibly reckless to do a vaccination effort half-assed and goes against medical advice and evidence. Improper vaccination efforts cannot achieve the goal of vaccination and the statically most likely outcome is a vaccine resilient mutation. Every virus is different of course so this situation and statement only applies to this one.

[leadeater]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:28 AM, tikker said:

Not being 100% effective does not mean not effective at all.

The Polio vaccine has the same efficacy as the COVID vaccine before Delta btw. There's never been a vaccine with 100% efficacy, probably never will be, but one can never say never.

 

 

It's a good watch, take note of all the anti Polio vaccine arguments and fears back then and the similarities of today. Sadly without a more effective Delta vaccine it's unlikely we can achieve what was possible with Polio, it was once possible but far less likely now. Now because of a global gigantic fumble and then tripping over that dropped ball we've likely just given ourselves another Influenza with an added bonus of 10x to 20x higher mortality rate, good job world and world leaders you did well.

[Laborant]

I most probably got COVID right in March 2020 - the very weekend, the government of Switzerland started the first lockdown. For roughly two weeks, I had annoying coughing, food tasted terrible, and always had the impression of my home office not having fresh air. That constant feeling of being in a low oxygen environment. The windows were open all the time, but it did not get better for two weeks.

Then it faded away, and I went back to my sport routine (mainly running and some TRX-Training). Before that COVID infection, my fitness tracker told me to have a "sports age" (something Garmin calculates out of the VO2-max estimation) of 18-20y (being 33 years old, that was quite nice). After that infection, the very same fitness tracker estimated my "sports age" to 65y. My "VO2-Max" went down. It took me about 2 more months to fully recover to my old "sports age." 

 

Interestingly, not only my body got hit. I felt unreasonably tired, having a non-relaxing sleep (that kind of sleep when you sleep like a rock for 8 hours, but you still feel like you did not sleep at all). I got overwhelmed by even the more easy tasks at my work (electrical engineer - some stuff is hard, some stuff is not). I even felt like I'd have to switch to a more straightforward job and quitting my part-time master's studies.

 

Then I got the vaccine. 1st shot was basically nothing... the 2nd hit me like a train. 12 hours after the vaccination, I went into fever and tiredness for about 24 hours. All gone.

Now I'm writing my Master's Thesis and am Zen-relaxed. That correlates to some newspaper article I read, saying that the vaccination could even cure "long COVID"-symptoms. I did not even think about having "long COVID," but that personal crisis started making sense. 

 

So even if you think "only old geezers get hit harshly" - just because you don't end up at an ICU, it does not mean that everything is fine. I do not recommend an infection. Switzerland's health officials say that roughly every 9th ICU-patient could have been avoided by the vaccination. 

My case flies entirely underneath the radar of statistics - back in March 2020, our officials only tested elderly people.

Maybe I get laughed at for this - but maybe it motivates someone to actually get the vaccine. Again - I did not think about my case being "long covid". I thought, I was stressed out because my leisure-place was now also my work-place. It just made sense once the shitty feeling was gone.

[WkdPaul]

Security experts ; Quebec vaccine passport app is great and should be a model to copy !!!!!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/8142405/quebec-covid-vaccine-passports-safe-cybersecurity/amp/

 

 

Hackers ; lol wut?

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/hackers-claim-they-cracked-quebec-s-vaccination-qr-codes-government-says-they-re-completely-secure-1.5525677

source un French ;

https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/2021-08-27/passeport-vaccinal/les-codes-qr-de-plusieurs-elus-compromis.php

 

 

Apparently they were even able to get the Prime Minister's QR code !

 

They're sure they talked to a security expert in the other article ???

[CerealExperimentsLain]

35 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Security experts ; Quebec vaccine passport app is great and should be a model to copy !!!!!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/8142405/quebec-covid-vaccine-passports-safe-cybersecurity/amp/

 

 

Hackers ; lol wut?

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/hackers-claim-they-cracked-quebec-s-vaccination-qr-codes-government-says-they-re-completely-secure-1.5525677

source un French ;

https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/2021-08-27/passeport-vaccinal/les-codes-qr-de-plusieurs-elus-compromis.php

 

 

Apparently they were even able to get the Prime Minister's QR code !

 

They're sure they talked to a security expert in the other article ???

I'm a little confused by this.  I assume the QR code is mostly just plain text and then the app consults a database.  Any QR code afterall, on it's own, without checking it's content against a database, someone could spoof just with a screen shot of someone else's QR code, right?

[captain_to_fire]

38 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Security experts ; Quebec vaccine passport app is great and should be a model to copy !!!!!!

https://globalnews.ca/news/8142405/quebec-covid-vaccine-passports-safe-cybersecurity/amp/

 

 

Hackers ; lol wut?

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/hackers-claim-they-cracked-quebec-s-vaccination-qr-codes-government-says-they-re-completely-secure-1.5525677

source un French ;

https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/2021-08-27/passeport-vaccinal/les-codes-qr-de-plusieurs-elus-compromis.php

 

 

Apparently they were even able to get the Prime Minister's QR code !

 

They're sure they talked to a security expert in the other article ???

Which reminds me. Ever since the pandemic started I’m actually concerned about data security. For one, after hundreds of health declaration forms and putting my email address on it I’ve seen a sharp increase in spam emails many of which are Covid related phishing campaigns. 
 

I guess it would be better if vaccine passports work like ATM cards? Or even like my company ID back when I was working. I’d just tap it to the sensor and it will unlock the door for me and record my attendance.

[WkdPaul]

15 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

I'm a little confused by this.  I assume the QR code is mostly just plain text and then the app consults a database.  Any QR code afterall, on it's own, without checking it's content against a database, someone could spoof just with a screen shot of someone else's QR code, right?

EDIT ; sorry, didn't properly read your reply ... you're right, on the verification side, it should check against a DB, so I'm unsure if the "forged" or "stolen" QR code are able to pass the verification side.

 

-------------

The vaccine passport is an app that lets you enter your personal information to get your own QR code proving you're fully vaccinated. Each QR code is unique to the person.

 

I haven't looked into it, and can't since I don't have an iPhone (it's currently only available for IOS), but it's apparently very easy to enter any information and get a QR code, so I'm guessing the app doesn't do any checks and just goes and assume the information entered are legit and issues a QR code.

 

If that's the case, or if circumventing the checks is easy, this completely defeats the purpose.