COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Quackers101]

fresh air and ventilating bad air with fresh air > plastic barrier.

seems like there is tests to show how shops etc, are dealing when setting up barriers that are sort of ineffective or makes it worse.

But it can sometimes help, but very situational and ofc helps most with sneezing and coughing (faster and bigger drops).

Making masks more critical than lowering or not using a mask due to the barrier. (some sets up this barrier better than others).

[captain_to_fire]

11 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

fresh air and ventilating bad air with fresh air > plastic barrier.

seems like there is tests to show how shops etc, are dealing when setting up barriers that are sort of ineffective or makes it worse.

But it can sometimes help, but very situational and ofc helps most with sneezing and coughing (faster and bigger drops).

Making masks more critical than lowering or not using a mask due to the barrier. (some sets up this barrier better than others).

It depends if the staff is actually sanitizing the acrylic or plastic barriers, but yeah those barriers don’t do shit much https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronavirus/ct-aud-nw-nyt-plastic-barriers-covid-spread-20210820-kttst7tkqfds3nuhyengif6dga-story.html 

[Andreas Lilja]

Not sure if monster or Darwinian genius. 

[PhantomJaguarr]

We have to wear masks indoors at my uni and after walking around for a bit outside in SoCal weather even I want to rip this face diaper off

[Andreas Lilja]

Pfizer approved by the FDA.

 

Obviously anti-vaxxers moved the goalpost, now the FDA is corrupted by Big Pharma.

[dalekphalm]

15 hours ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

We have to wear masks indoors at my uni and after walking around for a bit outside in SoCal weather even I want to rip this face diaper off

Why are you wearing the mask outside in SoCal weather though?

 

I mean I can understand wearing one outside if you're on a densely packed sidewalk and people aren't giving you space - but usually it's easy enough to keep away from people while outside.

[Andreas Lilja]

On 8/23/2021 at 6:42 PM, PhantomJaguar77 said:

We have to wear masks indoors at my uni and after walking around for a bit outside in SoCal weather even I want to rip this face diaper off

This but indoor when there's no AC and it's a physical job.

[Andreas Lilja]

Quebec Covid QR app delayed on Android, to be released days after the iOS one. 

 

Can't wait for it to be broken on arrival. 

[PhantomJaguarr]

14 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Why are you wearing the mask outside in SoCal weather though?

 

I mean I can understand wearing one outside if you're on a densely packed sidewalk and people aren't giving you space - but usually it's easy enough to keep away from people while outside.

The vaccinated don’t need to wear them outside but we still have to wear them inside so that actually makes me feel worse. 
 

but after recovering with the AC in the classroom I’m fine 

[WindirBear]

On 8/11/2021 at 4:43 AM, Yeroh said:

 

Look, I'm not against vaccination in general, I just want to make a point that not everyone who's hesitant is necessarily someone who is hesitant out of ignorance or malice.

This is NOT the sentiment among the vaccinated. It's either you're vaccinated or you're crazy, stupid, selfish, Karen, anti masker, COVID deniers or any other crazy thing they can pin on you. We get it, you're better than us. Just leave us have our reasons for not get vaccinated like you would for people that smoke or drink or do anything unhealthy. I eat Nutella, it's unhealthy shit, but I'm a grown ass adult. I'll be damned if my decision to eat Nutella is taken away! Just like my decision to be unvaccinated.

[WkdPaul]

24 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

This is NOT the sentiment among the vaccinated. It's either you're vaccinated or you're crazy, stupid, selfish, Karen, anti masker, COVID deniers or any other crazy thing they can pin on you. We get it, you're better than us. Just leave us have our reasons for not get vaccinated like you would for people that smoke or drink or do anything unhealthy. I eat Nutella, it's unhealthy shit, but I'm a grown ass adult. I'll be damned if my decision to eat Nutella is taken away! Just like my decision to be unvaccinated.

The issue is, your eating habit don't have an impact on the rest of the population, being unvaccinated does. There are people that have legitimate medical reasons for not getting the vaccines, and others that have immunity issues which means the vaccines isn't as effective as someone with a healthy system immunity.

 

Refusing to be vaccinated put others at risk (yes, even people that are vaccinated), and IF you get COVID, while YOU might not have any issues, or even any symptoms, it doesn't mean the people you're interacting with will be fine. You can shout all you want about YOUR choice, but it's not personal, it's a public health issue.

 

Yes you can choose not to be vaccinated, but when the decision impacts your community, it's not a personal choice anymore.

[WindirBear]

8 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

The issue is, your eating habit don't have an impact on the rest of the population, being unvaccinated does. There are people that have legitimate medical reasons for not getting the vaccines, and others that have immunity issues which means the vaccines isn't as effective as someone with a health system immunity.

 

Refusing to be vaccinated put others at risk (yes, even people that are vaccinated), and IF you get COVID, while YOU might not have any issues, or even any symptoms, it doesn't mean the people you're interacting with will be fine. You can shout all you want about YOUR choice, but it's not personal, it's a public health issue.

 

Yes you can choose not to be vaccinated, but when the decision impacts your community, it's not a personal choice anymore.

Ok but what's the difference if I'm vaccinated or not. Only me, myself and I would have less serious issues when I get sick. I can still spread the virus to the public if I'm vaccinated. Ultimately it's like eating Nutella, still a personal choice.

[WkdPaul]

18 minutes ago, WindirBear said:

Ok but what's the difference if I'm vaccinated or not. Only me, myself and I would have less serious issues when I get sick. I can still spread the virus to the public. Ultimately it's like eating Nutella, still a personal choice.

 

Jesus, are you serious ?

 

Do you not understand that without the vaccine, you're a lot more contagious than if you're not (except for the Delta variant), and that by not being vaccinated, you're helping with the potential creation of new variants ?

 

You can spin it all you want, but again ; it's a PUBLIC health issue, nothing in the decision you're making is affecting you and you alone, this is only an excuse.

[WkdPaul]

More news ;

 

The vaccines aren't as effective against the Delta variant ;
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/24/cdc-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-fell-from-91-to-66-with-delta-variant/

 

 

And people with the vaccine could be spreading the Delta variant more than the other variants ;

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-people-who-are-fully-vaccinated-have-high-potential-of-spreading-covid/

[lewdicrous]

28 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

More news ;

 

The vaccines aren't as effective against the Delta variant ;
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/24/cdc-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness-fell-from-91-to-66-with-delta-variant/

 

 

And people with the vaccine could be spreading the Delta variant more than the other variants ;

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-people-who-are-fully-vaccinated-have-high-potential-of-spreading-covid/

My uni just announced that all learning would be held in person.

Time to see how long that lasts.

[Beerzerker]

Just have a few thoughts on my mind about it:

Have to ask - What good is a vaccine if it isn't able to give you immunity from what you are taking it for?
Doesn't make much sense to pressure people to take a vaccine and then, you can get sick from it anyway. Doesn't matter about the severity of it, we've already been told even after getting the shot you can still "Get It" as fact of the matter.

And I'm sorry, these masks don't do squat to stop it.
It's like this:



Good question because both are made from the same material and I mean for real....
Why does a worker in a bio-lab have to wear a mask that filters to the micron?
Do these?
No.

All it can do is slow down the air movement from a sneeze, cough or from just speaking but does not stop it - It still gets in the air and it's just as contageous that way and can easily circulate around a room anyway to others, masked or not.

And don't confuse a vaccine with an antibiotic, it doesn't work directly against an infection like an antibiotic does. If you know the difference between the two, then you know.

Also....
All this talk about it being beaten and going away is bull, if it's as contageous as claimed (And I woudn't doubt it) it's already in the enviroment - Period.

It's a frickin virus and being what it is, it can live in about any organism such as your pet dog, cat, the wildlife around you.... And even if it's "Beaten" as they say, all it would take is a simple mosquito bite to reintroduce it from an infected animal back to a human.
And if you want to go out and vaccinate all the wildlife, go ahead and get started already.....
Those animals ain't gonna stick themselves you know and there's plenty of them too.

And the added bonus about those that have beaten it on their own being lumped into the same category as those which are unvaccinated, that it's also bull.
The purpose of a vaccine is to introduce the virus in a weakened form so the body detects it, then works to destroy it BUT immunity also works when you get it and beat it.
In both cases whether it's aquired by natural or medical means you have immunity - Period and both are on par with each other, it's not like the vaccine does anything special aside from introducing the weakened form of it to kick-start the immune system anyway.

The body and only the body makes the antibodies and it's not like for the same virus it's going to make anything different to deal with it between whether you're injected with it or infected naturally.
What antibodies it makes is based on the protein signature of what's injected and it goes from there, the vaccine at that point has done all it's going to itself.

Just because you haven't taken a shot doesn't mean you don't have immunity period as an absolute, by how it's represented by the media, drawing a hardline between the two cases of whether you did or didn't get the shot.
Yes, I have a problem with that - A big one.

It also goes back to a term I haven't heard in awhile called "Herd Immunity" which IS based on the population at large having natural immunity....
Are they now saying that's wrong?

That's based on everyone becoming immune naturally and that is something based on reality.
The problem (They say) is the immunity doesn't last for life like some others do and yes, that will happen IF one is never exposed to it again.
As long as the body keeps detecting it, it will in turn keep making antibodies for it, maintaining the immunity you'd have in either case of immunity aquirement. 

Could go on but instead I'll sum it up:
If you want the shot - Get it and if you don't, then don't.

Personally I'm good either way.
Have a nice day.

[WkdPaul]

20 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

*snip*

Sorry, but all of this is pretty much false or misinterpretation.

 

Mask cannot block the COVID virus, but it does block the droplets they are in ... viruses don't freely float in the air, just as bacteria from you farts (if it's the ridiculous analogy you're gonna make, might as well use it). So, a mask, just like your underwear, are going to catch droplets, yes and those droplets are the mode of transport COVID uses.

 

Vaccines give you immunity, BUT nobody ever said it was 100%, no vaccine is. And 66% efficacy (at worse for the Delta variant) is much better than none.

 

And yes, if you got COVID, your body made antibodies against it, but at least with a vaccine, you don't risk the chance of being in the ICU, and you don't risk spreading it to people that are vulnerable.

 

And again, this isn't "get it or don't, it's fine either way", that's a false equivalency. It's the same for any other disease we have vaccines for ; if enough people are vaccinated, the disease can't spread much if at all, that's why there were measles outbreaks not too long ago ; because people think vaccines are personal choices and decided not to get the vaccine, but they're not ; they are a PUBLIC issue, meaning ; it affect everyone around you. Spin it all you want, but that's a fact.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

19 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Have to ask - What good is a vaccine if it isn't able to give you immunity from what you are taking it for?
Doesn't make much sense to pressure people to take a vaccine and then, you can get sick from it anyway. Doesn't matter about the severity of it, we've already been told even after getting the shot you can still "Get It" as fact of the matter.

What good are seat belts and air bags if they don't give you immunity to car crashes???

Why do my tax dollars fund body armor for police and the military if it doesn't make them entirely bullet proof???

 

Why did I buy a fire extinguisher if it doesn't make my house fire proof???

[lewdicrous]

20 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Have to ask - What good is a vaccine if it isn't able to give you immunity from what you are taking it for?
Doesn't make much sense to pressure people to take a vaccine and then, you can get sick from it anyway. Doesn't matter about the severity of it, we've already been told even after getting the shot you can still "Get It" as fact of the matter.

Vaccines are like condoms; they're not 100% effective, but they sure as hell help.

22 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Good question because both are made from the same material and I mean for real....
Why does a worker in a bio-lab have to wear a mask that filters to the micron?
Do these?
No.

Fabric/cloth masks aren't as effective as N## masks or similar ones.

Also, the viruses that are transmitted via your respiratory system are contained in water droplets, that's why the masks have a chance to stop them being sprayed into the air, or at least lowers that chance. If your farts spray water droplets, the way your mouth and nose do when you cough/sneeze, then you have other problems.

 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, WindirBear said:

Ok but what's the difference if I'm vaccinated or not. Only me, myself and I would have less serious issues when I get sick. I can still spread the virus to the public if I'm vaccinated. Ultimately it's like eating Nutella, still a personal choice.

To spin wkdpaul's take a bit:

 

Vaccinating yourself greatly reduces the chances of getting infected in the first place. When you hear about talk of vaccinated people spreading the virus, that's in cases of breakthrough infections — that minority of people for whom the vaccine wasn't effective enough (apparently a significant minority, but clearly so). And even if you are infected, you'll likely have gentler symptoms that reduce the chances of transmission. 

 

Besides... do you have anyone who depends on you? Even if full vaccination didn't significantly reduce the chances of spreading the virus to people around you, I'm pretty sure your roommate, partner, kids or similar connections would very much care what happened to you. It's easy to claim it's "still a personal choice" if you're a single 20-something whose only dependent is a houseplant; it's another if you hobble an entire family because you were more concerned with "personal choice" than being responsible.

 

The vaccines are effective and safe. It only takes a few minutes to get a dose (plus 15 minutes of just-in-case observation). And the consequences of falling ill with the virus are much, much worse than the minor inconvenience of feeling a bit unwell for a day. So what obstacles do you really have?

 

[Beerzerker]

54 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Sorry, but all of this is pretty much false or misinterpretation.

 

1: Mask cannot block the COVID virus, but it does block the droplets they are in ... viruses don't freely float in the air, just as bacteria from you farts (if it's the ridiculous analogy you're gonna make, might as well use it). So, a mask, just like your underwear, are going to catch droplets, yes and those droplets are the mode of transport COVID uses.

 

2: Vaccines give you immunity, BUT nobody ever said it was 100%, no vaccine is. And 66% efficacy (at worse for the Delta variant) is much better than none.

 

3: And yes, if you got COVID, your body made antibodies against it, but at least with a vaccine, you don't risk the chance of being in the ICU, and you don't risk spreading it to people that are vulnerable.

 

4: And again, this isn't "get it or don't, it's fine either way", that's a false equivalency. It's the same for any other disease we have vaccines for ; if enough people are vaccinated, the disease can't spread much if at all, that's why there were measles outbreaks not too long ago ; because people think vaccines are personal choices and decided not to get the vaccine, but they're not ; they are a PUBLIC issue, meaning ; it affect everyone around you. Spin it all you want, but that's a fact.

With respect:

1: I must agree to disagree with you and it's not spin either. 
Yes, it was a ridiculous analagy I used with the pic BUT a virus CAN float through the air:
Experts Say COVID-19 Is Airborne: Here’s How You Can Stay Safe
Coronavirus drifts through the air in microscopic droplets – here's the science of infectious aerosols
Is the coronavirus airborne? | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE

You are correct overall about the droplets but a virus can and will "Float" through the air. A mask as I had said can slow down a sneeze, cough and so on but cannot actually stop it.
And there is still the thing about guys in a biolab wearing masks that's different  - Also relates to the nature of a virus being able to live in just about any organism (Doesn't have to make them sick for it to thrive) and how it can be reintroduced into the populace at any time.
No mask period is proof against that.

2: I will not disagree with this, any vaccine isn't perfect and yes, 66% (If so) is better than none.

 

3: There are documented cases of folks getting all the shots AND still winding up in the ICU - Not nearly as common (I stress this) but it's true.

 

4: That was about me and my take on it alone - I'm fine either way and I'm not going to be pressuring folks about it.
You are incorrect about one thing - The virus CAN still be spread to and between folks, vaccinated OR not, that's already been said as fact by the medical guys.
And it's legitamate to mandate something because it's a social issue?
Where are we living - In the old USSR?

 

The entire point and purpose of a vaccine IS to introduce immunity in the first place, hopefully before one gets sick - For people that have beaten it without a shot, that purpose has already been achieved so they shoudn't have to get a shot - That's my take on it.

BTW to be fair, there are arguements for both sides of it and I'm not going to advocate for either side of it - Getting the shot or not, it should be your choice.
COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

Natural Immunity vs. Vaccine-Acquired Immunity: Which Is Better?

51 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

1:What good are seat belts and air bags if they don't give you immunity to car crashes???

2:Why do my tax dollars fund body armor for police and the military if it doesn't make them entirely bullet proof???

 

3:Why did I buy a fire extinguisher if it doesn't make my house fire proof???

1: No one ever said they would make you immune and the natures of being in a crash vs having a virus are far different anyway.

 

2: You'd have to ask the gov about that and hope you get a straight answer.

 

3: That choice was yours to make, not mine or anyone else's. 
 

[lewdicrous]

Posted this as an SU before, but I think it should be seen again.

 

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

With respect:

1: I must agree to disagree with you and it's not spin either. 
Yes, it was a ridiculous analagy I used with the pic BUT a virus CAN float through the air:
Experts Say COVID-19 Is Airborne: Here’s How You Can Stay Safe
Coronavirus drifts through the air in microscopic droplets – here's the science of infectious aerosols

From your own link (The middle one above this):

Quote

This is because homemade masks probably do a reasonable job of blocking aerosols from leaving your mouth. The evidence generally supports their use and more research is coming to show that masks can be very effective at reducing SARS-CoV-2 in air.

It's actually a really good article - thank you for sharing it. But "Aerosolized" doesn't mean the Virus itself is just... floating in the air by itself. It generally hitches a ride on liquid water droplets. Those droplets are what the mask catches.

 

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

Is the coronavirus airborne? | Nebraska Medicine Omaha, NE

You are correct overall about the droplets but a virus can and will "Float" through the air. A mask as I had said can slow down a sneeze, cough and so on but cannot actually stop it.
And there is still the thing about guys in a biolab wearing masks that's different  - Also relates to the nature of a virus being able to live in just about any organism (Doesn't have to make them sick for it to thrive) and how it can be reintroduced into the populace at any time.
No mask period is proof against that.

As mentioned above - masks are not perfect but they do help. Wearing a mask offers way more protection than not wearing one. If someone doesn't want to wear a mask, that's okay. Stay home though and utilize contact free methods when going out.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

2: I will not disagree with this, any vaccine isn't perfect and yes, 66% (If so) is better than none.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

3: There are documented cases of folks getting all the shots AND still winding up in the ICU - Not nearly as common (I stress this) but it's true.

Yes, but not many documented cases. The whole point is that it significantly reduces the number of people who wind up in the ICU. This is good.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

4: That was about me and my take on it alone - I'm fine either way and I'm not going to be pressuring folks about it.
You are incorrect about one thing - The virus CAN still be spread to and between folks, vaccinated OR not, that's already been said as fact by the medical guys.

No one is claiming otherwise. Yes, a small portion of vaccinated people can still experience a breakthrough infection and spread the virus. A much smaller portion than if no one were vaccinated.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

And it's legitamate to mandate something because it's a social issue?
Where are we living - In the old USSR?

Hmm? Every country, including Freedom Loving America, mandates stuff all the time due to social issues. You have to wear a seatbelt or face a fine. You can't speed. You can't beat up your neighbour. There are lots of things restricted in a society for the good of said society.

 

Jumping to the "COMMUNISM" argument is simply disingenuous.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

The entire point and purpose of a vaccine IS to introduce immunity in the first place, hopefully before one gets sick - For people that have beaten it without a shot, that purpose has already been achieved so they shoudn't have to get a shot - That's my take on it.

The problem with this is that compared to say, the mRNA vaccine, natural immunity is likely nowhere near as good. There are also a lot of cases of people getting repeat infections of COVID (likely catching different variants).

 

I would suggest that someone who already had COVID should at least look into getting a single booster shot.

 

IF there is strong scientific, peer reviewed evidence that says a person who caught COVID has an immunity level comparable or better than from the Vaccine? Sure. I would support them getting an exemption to the vaccine and being listed as "vaccinated equivalent" or something.

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

BTW to be fair, there are arguements for both sides of it and I'm not going to advocate for either side of it - Getting the shot or not, it should be your choice.
COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

Natural Immunity vs. Vaccine-Acquired Immunity: Which Is Better?

1: No one ever said they would make you immune and the natures of being in a crash vs having a virus are far different anyway.

 

2: You'd have to ask the gov about that and hope you get a straight answer.

 

3: That choice was yours to make, not mine or anyone else's. 
 

Most of your arguments seem to revolve around Personal Freedom.

 

The problem is that it's quite simply not a personal freedom question. It's a public health question. The less people who are vaccinated, means the longer and worse this pandemic will be. Period.

 

Every person who gains immunity "naturally" by being infected, also likely infected multiple other people in the process. They also risk far more danger in terms of the disease itself (even when compared to Breakthrough Infections).

 

If your choice truly didn't affect anyone else, it wouldn't even be up for discussion. But it does. Every person who chooses to go unvaccinated against COVID when they don't have a medical requirement to do so, puts the entire society at further risk. They put their neighbours, friends, and family at risk.

 

It's simple. Unless you cannot get vaccinated due to a medical condition, you should get vaccinated.

[adarw]

take the vaccine if you can. do it for others if you dont care about yourself. my grandparents got both shots but still got very sick when they got the delta variant, im not kidding they could have died if they didnt take the shots. JUST TAKE THEM you might be sick a couple of hours but is it really worth your loved ones life? have a good one.

[tikker]

Just adding a few thoughts as a lot has already been pointed out by others.

4 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

COVID-19 survivors may possess wide-ranging resistance to the disease | Emory University | Atlanta, GA

Yes, you'll get resistance by getting the disease. The vaccine does exactly that, with at least two nice things more:

1. you are unlikely to experience severe side-effects from the vaccine and you don't have to go through the agonising COVID-19 disease.
2. your survival rate goes up should you get it and you are already protected before even getting it.

4 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Natural Immunity vs. Vaccine-Acquired Immunity: Which Is Better?

I can't read that specific page (region block it seems), but there have already been studies that even after getting it before you are still more likely to catch it versus being vaccinated. See e.g. this CDC article for such a study.

 

As a general note, it should also not be forgotten that this is about more than simply protecting yourself or others from what is currently going on. A third important aspect is that the less people are vaccinated, the more freely it will spread and the more (easily) it will mutate. The better we contain this the smaller the risk of another "delta" variant popping up that is again even more contagious and deadly, or god forbid, resistant against the vaccines and unrecognisable to your current antibodies.

 

Please get vaccinated people. It's very likely a matter of when you'll catch it, not if, especially without the vaccines. The majority of ICU patiens are unvaccinated people, the vaccines are safe and do work. Not being 100% effective does not mean not effective at all.