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Banned from the Internet - Current Lawsuit could force ISPs to ban users

rcmaehl
By rcmaehl
in Tech News
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Is a car manufacturer or dealer responsible if a car buyer uses said car to commit a crime?

 

Is a state DOT responsible if a car runs a pedestrian over on their roads?

 

Is the electric company responsible if their customers use electricity to run a server that distributes copyrighted material?

 

Why should an ISP be responsible for their customers using the internet to do something illegal? It's completely stupid that this has even made it to court, much less be seriously considered as a possible outcome. Is the RIAA going to foot the bill for this kind of monitoring, or are they just going to expect the rest of us to pay for it in higher internet service costs? As if our internet costs in the US weren't high enough already...

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Banhof save me <3

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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1 minute ago, Fullmental said:

Is a car manufacturer or dealer responsible if a car buyer uses said car to commit a crime?

 

Is a state DOT responsible if a car runs a pedestrian over on their roads?

 

Is the electric company responsible if their customers use electricity to run a server that distributes copyrighted material?

 

Why should an ISP be responsible for their customers using the internet to do something illegal? It's completely stupid that this has even made it to court, much less be seriously considered as a possible outcome.

I bolded the part this is going to turn on. There are private toll roads in parts of the country. Under the legal theory they're using, they'd be required to police the road for transport of contraband.

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2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I bolded the part this is going to turn on. There are private toll roads in parts of the country. Under the legal theory they're using, they'd be required to police the road for transport of contraband.

That'll go over well. Can I sue my HOA for "harboring a drug dealer" then by allowing them to live in a house they purchased, if this were to pass? Because that'll end well.

 

Hopefully whoever is defending this stupidity in court can strike this down quickly, because this is not the kind of future we want to work towards. Responsibility by simple extension and association is a very dangerous road to go down.

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news like this makes me happy i live in Canada. I only once got a letter from my ISP about a torrent and have never heard of people getting cut-off or any of that 3 strike bullshit

 

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2 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

news like this makes me happy i live in Canada. I only once got a letter from my ISP about a torrent and have never heard of people getting cut-off or any of that 3 strike bullshit

 

i've gotten an email but nothing happened afterwards. just a video link to learn about copyright 

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19 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah no way they are going to be able to ban VPNs. Businesses and schools use them quite often. Most firms have VPNs to allow for working from home. And alot of companies use them for similar purposes as well. 

Yeah which makes it worse that some ISPs throttle VPN traffic

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
23 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah I feel like people assume that everyone only torrents illegal content. I had a buddy in college that would torrent but wasn't downloading anything illegal. 

Torrents and p2p as whole is used a lot today. Every MMO uses p2p to update, Netflix, Spotify, Steam, almost everything that needs tons and tons of bandwidth uses p2p, just because no one really notices if they are uploading stuff while watching a movie or listening music and it cheapens the infrastructure costs a lot when you can easily just bundle X mass od servers and even use customers as senders.

 

Also it's not only protocols but whole networks. VPN is really a "small" partition of basicly WANs and the intra-/extranet web. VPNs just use normal WAN connections and protocols to tunnel your data (E2E-encrypted) to their network from where they connect to whereever you want to connect. You ban VPNs and you are in trouble because banks and corporations use those same protocols to communicate between branches, off-site workers, stores and so on and everyone can guess how happy someone like Apple would be if they would need to transmit their repair and sales information through unecrypted and unisolated networks where basicly anyone with enough knowledge can capture those and show to the whole world, not even talking about banks (who in the early days of networking digged their own cables to the ground for connecting their offices securely). Even "our" Internet is just a one worldwide network and there's quite many networks that are starting to get to the same level of coverage (not as huge but even still very big and most of those are extranets).

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14 minutes ago, Fullmental said:

That'll go over well. Can I sue my HOA for "harboring a drug dealer" then by allowing them to live in a house they purchased, if this were to pass? Because that'll end well.

 

Hopefully whoever is defending this stupidity in court can strike this down quickly, because this is not the kind of future we want to work towards. Responsibility by simple extension and association is a very dangerous road to go down.

The MPAA + friends will eventually lose, but they're going to cause carnage in the mean time. They'll eventually get slapped down by the the appellate courts, but that takes time & money. They eventually have to go after Comcast and the Mobile Carriers. That's when it starts getting really ugly.

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Posted

We warmly welcome the return of the sneakernet.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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Posted

If anything we just need more stringent protections for our web data. We have wire tap laws in place to keep people from doing warrant-less digging like this. We need similar protections on the web side of things. This is just the copyright companies trying to bully their way around the legal system.

 

The first big ISP to pander to these companies will also be the first ISP to see huge numbers of customers leave them. This is just another reason to use point to point encryption. What I choose to do with my connection is my own damn business. No ISP has the right to try to associate my usage to a certain program,port, etc. They are there to offer up bandwidth much like the water company offers up water. They don't come to my house to see how I am using that water. The problem is the ISP's claim they need to know what we are doing so they can build in QoS rules to insure a good experience for everyone (which is pretty crap) they can easily build out their networks to support the traffic if needed. They just choose not to.

 

Now if the copyright holders want to do what they are already doing... which is watching the major torrent networks and grabbing up IP address and then turning those over to the police to investigate... that is one thing. Hell even then they don't need the police with the new copyright bs they have with the ISP's. They just don't get any information on you unless you get caught 3+ times.

 

Then we have the fact that the copyright holders see all of this money and not the people that actually produced that content. So it actually hurts the artists. Then we have the astronomical amount they are charging for this crap. If I get caught with 3 pirated movies... then i shouldn't be paying 150k in fines PER MOVIE. Sure him them up for the retail cost of that item plus a 500 dollar fine on top. If you catch someone that is stealing something you can't just turn that into a way to make a profit. You can have fines, but charging 10,000x the cost of the item (say a $15 movie) is absurd and I am shocked the court system hasn't squashed that non-sense already.

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2 hours ago, Ginger_ said:

The thing about using tor is that it's really obvious you are. If an isp wanted to find and track everyone using tor it's really, really easy. So they could just track you and wait for you to slip up or just unravel your trail. 

 

It's really not nearly the security people think it is. It's like walking into a store with a blanket around you that says on the outside "I'm definitely not doing anything illegal" while you rob the place 

It's still better to be known as blanket guy robbing a store than John Smith -- at least until they start blanket banning (pun absolutely intended).

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

Hmm

How many businesses would get banned?

Wi-Fi at mcdonalds download copyrighted shit there

Go to Starbucks same thing

Both get banned?

Most (decently managed) public WiFi networks block certain types of traffic for that reason. As it is, ISPs are allowed to cut off service to you and in fact did back when CAS was a thing -- after a certain number of strikes you would have your service shut off until you called them about it and promised to stop. I think the next time they would just cancel your service (although I don't know if that step ever happened in practice).

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1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The MPAA + friends will eventually lose, but they're going to cause carnage in the mean time. They'll eventually get slapped down by the the appellate courts, but that takes time & money. They eventually have to go after Comcast and the Mobile Carriers. That's when it starts getting really ugly.

honestly the major isps have so much money that I doubt they would lose a legal battle to these guys. The only way I see them winning is if the ISPs didn't to spend them money for a legal battle and just settle. That being said I think something like this would cost the ISP money in the long run as it limits their customer base and I do see them wanting to protect that. 

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55 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

If anything we just need more stringent protections for our web data. We have wire tap laws in place to keep people from doing warrant-less digging like this. We need similar protections on the web side of things. This is just the copyright companies trying to bully their way around the legal system.

 

The first big ISP to pander to these companies will also be the first ISP to see huge numbers of customers leave them. This is just another reason to use point to point encryption. What I choose to do with my connection is my own damn business. No ISP has the right to try to associate my usage to a certain program,port, etc. They are there to offer up bandwidth much like the water company offers up water. They don't come to my house to see how I am using that water. The problem is the ISP's claim they need to know what we are doing so they can build in QoS rules to insure a good experience for everyone (which is pretty crap) they can easily build out their networks to support the traffic if needed. They just choose not to.

 

Now if the copyright holders want to do what they are already doing... which is watching the major torrent networks and grabbing up IP address and then turning those over to the police to investigate... that is one thing. Hell even then they don't need the police with the new copyright bs they have with the ISP's. They just don't get any information on you unless you get caught 3+ times.

 

Then we have the fact that the copyright holders see all of this money and not the people that actually produced that content. So it actually hurts the artists. Then we have the astronomical amount they are charging for this crap. If I get caught with 3 pirated movies... then i shouldn't be paying 150k in fines PER MOVIE. Sure him them up for the retail cost of that item plus a 500 dollar fine on top. If you catch someone that is stealing something you can't just turn that into a way to make a profit. You can have fines, but charging 10,000x the cost of the item (say a $15 movie) is absurd and I am shocked the court system hasn't squashed that non-sense already.

to try and investigate all torrent users to see if they are using it for illegal purposes or not would cost a ton of money and without a warrant it would be difficult to get enough evidence to prosecute. I think they should just give up on it tbh. the amount of people who torrent aren't even worth the money they spend trying to stop it.

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Posted

This sounds like it is basically using the legal system to blackmail ISP's.

 

Thank god I live in Australia, the film industry tried it on here once and the courts told them to go fuck themselves. 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/technology/dallas-buyers-club-abandons-fight-against-aussie-pirates-20160211-gmr37y.html

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Pretty sure in countries where the internet is pretty expensive at like $20/hr there's people who make bank by selling flash drives with pirated movies, copies of news, and other relevant daily info. File sharing will always happen

Cuba has a whole underground network. Everything comes in on em and gets distributed.

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5 hours ago, Fullmental said:

Is a state DOT responsible if a car runs a pedestrian over on their roads?

 

Is the electric company responsible if their customers use electricity to run a server that distributes copyrighted material?

Totally not serious question or comment coming so don't answer or reply with something like that but...

 

The US still doesn't consider internet access or ISPs as a utility so your example which are utilities and therefore come with the legal/liability protections of one don't apply to ISPs.

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5 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I don't have an issue with IP rights holders enforcing their IP (it's quite important to make technology move forward), but Hollywood + the Music Industry make a good argument for praying the San Andreas fault drops LA into the ocean. They failed with SOPA, so this is a back-end approach to it.

The Problem is that the interest of people shifts.

Most People rather get a Videogame for 50-100€ instead of a Movie for 20€.

Because a good game you can play for hundreds of hours, a Move you'll see once of twice. So the Price per hour of Entertainment is just soo much lower on games, even if the Price is tripple of 5 times of a movie. But even if it is a short, 8h game, its still cheaper than a Movie (if you didn't play the Ultra Expensive Edition).

 

Buttom Line:
The Music and Film Industry is loosing money to the Game Industry. Because that is more important for the younger people. 

So because their incoming is shrinking they are looking for other income possibilitys. And because the bosses are some old, stubborn people, who have no idea about the Internet, they blame it on Piracy and not a shift of interest of the Potential Customers.

 

And also they alienate the Consumerbase with their Anti-Piracy Ads and call all of them thieves before they've done anything wrong.

And that's not the worst thing...

They also destroy themselves with pandering to a specific ideoligy and don't see that "The Normies" couldn't care less about that shit they are talking about. And that pisses off more and more people. The best thing in this regard is the new Star Wars Movies, the Last Jedi and Solo as well.

 

The Music and Film industry just jumped the shark and nuked the fridge! Their time of dominance is over and they outlived their time!

IIRC The Game Industry makes more money than the movie Industry.

And both will shrink dramatically because less people have a need for them and rather pay for a game.

 

There is a need for Music and there always will be as you can enjoy that in your car.

As for movies? Naa, not so much. 

Especially that there is a strong competition in Korea and also Japan. Just watch "Miss Devil". Though you have to like the Japenese style. Or try the Original, Korean "Good Doctor" (wich got a 3rd adaptation after the US there is also a Japanese one. And tbh: The US Adaptation is crap compared to the Original or Japanese one wich are pretty close)

 

PS: some studies show that Piracy doesn't hurt sales, on the contary.

And if you think about it, there are people who have time but no money.

And there are people who have money but not time. So the people with no money but time pirate the stuff, play it and recommend the stuff they like to the people with Money!

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Posted
1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

IIRC The Game Industry makes more money than the movie Industry.

Only because the movie industry hasn't figured out how to integrate loot boxes in to movies yet.


Get to the end of streaming Avengers Infinity Wars and up pops a screen with a loot box that can be purchased for $0.99 with a 0.1% chance to unlock an extended ending scene in which [redacted] is brought back to life. But really all anyone ever gets is the shitty character such as [redacted] to be brought back to life that no-one wants that has like an 80% chance from the loot box, so people keep just buying more and more loot boxes to get the character they want to come back to life.

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34 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Only because the movie industry hasn't figured out how to integrate loot boxes in to movies yet.


Get to the end of streaming Avengers Infinity Wars and up pops a screen with a loot box that can be purchased for $0.99 with a 0.1% chance to unlock an extended ending scene in which [redacted] is brought back to life. But really all anyone ever gets is the shitty character such as [redacted] to be brought back to life that no-one wants that has like an 80% chance from the loot box, so people keep just buying more and more loot boxes to get the character they want to come back to life.

Premium DLC cinema 3D glasses that allow you to see hidden easter eggs during the movie

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46 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Only because the movie industry hasn't figured out how to integrate loot boxes in to movies yet.

That might be one possibility but I believe strongly that it is because the interest of people change and the Film Industry has to compete with the Game Industry...

And people don't have an unlimited Amount of Money.

 

 

And of course because they took a huge dump on the Fans (see Star Wars The Last Jedi or Solo, both are examples where already existing material about the universe is ignored, as someone told me).

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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9 hours ago, Fullmental said:

Is a car manufacturer or dealer responsible if a car buyer uses said car to commit a crime?

 

Is a state DOT responsible if a car runs a pedestrian over on their roads?

 

Is the electric company responsible if their customers use electricity to run a server that distributes copyrighted material?

 

Why should an ISP be responsible for their customers using the internet to do something illegal? It's completely stupid that this has even made it to court, much less be seriously considered as a possible outcome. Is the RIAA going to foot the bill for this kind of monitoring, or are they just going to expect the rest of us to pay for it in higher internet service costs? As if our internet costs in the US weren't high enough already...

The problem I forsee is that the current legislators and judges would give entirely wrong answers to all of those questions.

 

 

Start gathering what you can ladies and gents, dark times are ahead. Sure it might just be the US at the moment, but I think things are going to get worse. We're going to have to go back to yee olden days when if you wanted a new album you got a copy from a friend who bought it.

 

 

I hope I am wrong.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

Dubs are better than subs

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Posted (edited)

While there are certainly some people who should be banned from the internet entirely, I foresee several issues with this.  First and foremost is it would likely be used inappropriately/frivolously.  For example, for downloading pirated content.  A bit heavy handed if you ask me.  Second, I'm pretty sure this is illegal and unenforceable as internet access was declared a human right iirc Edit: Just checked, and apparently that never happened.  Also, I never realized how messed up that document is... not only is it basically useless/unenforceable due to the wording, but violations are normal operating procedure around the world, even in modern, developed countries like the US and Canada.

Edited by Ryan_Vickers
this edit was made after any rep given so consider that when reading

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Ridiculous 

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Haha sure. 

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