Rumor: AMD to go LGA with AM5, PCIe Gen 5 limited to only EPYC CPUs for Zen 4 Update: More leaks

[Random_Person1234]

Summary

According to Executable Fix, who apparently has a pretty good track record with AMD leaks, AM5 will have an LGA1718 socket. This means AMD CPUs and sockets will be physically more similar to Intel CPUs and sockets than before, with the pins on the motherboard socket instead of a PGA layout with the pins on the CPU, which AMD currently employs. AMDs LGA socket will have 18 more pins than LGA 1700, which Intel will use for Alder Lake. However, the AM5 socket will retain the 40 x 40 mm size of the current AM4 socket, according to Executable Fix. In the same thread, Executable Fix goes on the say PCIe Gen 5 will be limited to only EPYC Genoa CPUs on Zen 4. Intel is rumored to have PCIe Gen 5 on all Alder Lake chips.

 

Quotes

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AMD AM5, the successor to AM4 is to feature an LGA1718 socket. AMD is apparently changing its socket type from PGA to LGA (land grid array), which means there be no pins on the next-gen AMD processors, instead, pins will be located on the motherboard socket.

The leaker confirmed the platform will support dual-channel DDR5 memory, but surprisingly, PCI Express Gen5 support is to be exclusive to Zen4 Genoa (EPYC) processors. This means that the next-gen AMD consumer processors will retain PCIe Gen4 support. AMD AM5 processors are to compete with Intel Alder Lake-S, which is now confirmed to support PCIe Gen5 interface as well as DDR5.

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The news comes from Twitter leaker ExecutableFix, who has a pretty good track record when it comes to AMD information. 

My thoughts

If true, RIP PGA on consumer chips. I guess this could help fix the issue with the CPU popping out when taking off the stock cooler and bending pins. This means you'll also need to keep that socket cover now on future AMD motherboards in order to RMA it. I wonder why AMD would limit PCIe Gen 5 to only EPYC, maybe due to increased motherboard costs? Also, is it even possible for AMD to fit 387 more pins on the same size socket and CPU? 

 

Sources

https://twitter.com/ExecuFix/status/1396185408904564738

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-next-gen-am5-platform-to-feature-lga1718-socket

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-epyc-genoa-zen-4-specs-ryzen/ (link from where I got info on credibility of leaker)

 

Update: Executable Fix has now leaked more stuff. Zen 4 Raphael (first consumer Zen 4 chip) will support DDR5 (as expected), but unlike Intel Alder Lake, it will not also support DDR4. Raphael will have 28 PCIe 4.0 lanes, up from Zen 3's 24. The chips will have a 120W TDP, with a 170W special variant also possible. Executable Fix also leaked a picture of the LGA 1718 pads on the CPU.

Here it is compared to LGA 1700 (Alder Lake socket):

Spoiler

 

[8-Bit Ninja]

Personally I've always preferred LGA and having pins on the motherboard due to CPU vs Mobo cost. I know then pins on AMD CPU's are a fair bit tougher than the Mobo pins on LGA but still. 

[WhitetailAni]

6 minutes ago, Random_Person1234 said:

Also, is it even possible for AMD to fit 387 more pins on the same size socket and CPU? 

LGA pins are smaller than PGA pins, so yes, I can see it being possible.

 

I can wait for the posts like "PUT CORE i9 9900K IN AMD MOTHERBOARD WITH SOCKET ADAPTER??!?!?!?!?!?"

[Juular]

What's the point of changing the socket if not for PCIe 5.0 then ? I mean, 3 generations of the forward compatibility is still very good but now this just looks like an attempt to force motherboard change artificially.

Edit: ah, i forgot about DDR5, maybe that.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Juular

[Lurick]

5 minutes ago, Juular said:

What's the point of changing the socket if not for PCIe 5.0 then ? I mean, 3 generations of the forward compatibility is still very good but now this just looks like an attempt to force motherboard change artificially.

Edit: ah, i forgot about DDR5, maybe that.

New architectures need new BIOS and other support stuff and AMD doesn't want to land themselves into the beta BIOS support crap where boards have to remove some CPU support to support new stuff and all the other crap that went on with the Ryzen 5000 CPUs on older boards. Plus introduction of DDR5 and probably getting ready for PCIe 5.0 when that's actually needed is a good reason to change things up anyway.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

15 minutes ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

Personally I've always preferred LGA and having pins on the motherboard due to CPU vs Mobo cost. I know then pins on AMD CPU's are a fair bit tougher than the Mobo pins on LGA but still. 

When dealing with used CPUs, selling and buying, I do love that you have to screw up real hard to damage an intel CPU.  So long as you don't chuck it like a ninja star you're basically good.

[leadeater]

30 minutes ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

Personally I've always preferred LGA and having pins on the motherboard due to CPU vs Mobo cost. I know then pins on AMD CPU's are a fair bit tougher than the Mobo pins on LGA but still. 

Long ago in ancient times when the CPU was a fraction of the motherboard cost then the sentiment was the reverse, but I guess those days are long gone.

[8-Bit Ninja]

16 minutes ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

When dealing with used CPUs, selling and buying, I do love that you have to screw up real hard to damage an intel CPU.  So long as you don't chuck it like a ninja star you're basically good.

I've kept mine in anti static bags and dropped them countless times and have yet to kill one 

[8-Bit Ninja]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Long ago in ancient times when the CPU was a fraction of the motherboard cost then the sentiment was the reverse, but I guess those days are long gone.

I have a feeling that was a way before my time 

[Lurick]

Just now, 8-Bit Ninja said:

I have a feeling that was a way before my time 

Yah, this was back in the early 1900's. Way before our time

[akio123008]

So putting all logical arguments aside for a second,

 

Can I just say, I really don't like LGA. AMD please don't.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

Yah, this was back in the early 1900's. Way before our time

Yep, when you rubbed two CPUs together to make fire, or just took the cooler off as they had no thermal protection.

[Mark Kaine]

35 minutes ago, FakeKGB said:

I can wait for the posts like "PUT CORE i9 9900K IN AMD MOTHERBOARD WITH SOCKET ADAPTER??!?!?!?!?!?"

That was indeed my first thought…

But do you even need an adapter???! 

 

[leadeater]

Just now, Mark Kaine said:

That was indeed my first thought…

But do you even need an adapter???! 

 

Nope, as the wise one says

 

[CerealExperimentsLain]

Someone invent the AM4 CPU to AM5 socket adapter.  I want to relive these days:

 

[Mark Kaine]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nope, as the wise one says

 

You're reading my mind! 

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Someone invent the AM4 CPU to AM5 socket adapter.  I want to relive these days:

 

I really need to get a slotket adapter. I have no use for my Celeron 433 and 500 otherwise.

[CerealExperimentsLain]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I really need to get a slotket adapter. I have no use for my Celeron 433 and 500 otherwise.

Meanwhile, I run an E5800 in my Windows ME machine and an i5 3250 in my Windows XP machine. >_>;

My retro may not be the most authentic but it's fast as hell.

[HenrySalayne]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Long ago in ancient times when the CPU was a fraction of the motherboard cost then the sentiment was the reverse, but I guess those days are long gone.

 If you want to relive the good old days, just get an Asus Maximus XIII Extreme Glacial and couple it with a Celeron G5900.

[Brooksie359]

I don't really see why pcie 5.0 is necessary at this point. Would it be good to have? Yeah so long as it doesn't cost to much but they can also wait a couple of generations of motherboard before adding if as well. 4.0 Is already pretty fast and should be more than enough for awhile to come for consumers. 

[Beerzerker]

3 hours ago, akio123008 said:

So putting all logical arguments aside for a second,

 

Can I just say, I really don't like LGA. AMD please don't.

Can't help but agree with this.
I have several LGA based setups and it seems everytime I do a setup with one I get POST code 55 due to a pin shifting to one side down in the socket. Hunt it, find it, fix it and then it works.
With AMD's current design I've never had any of that - Either it works or it doesn't and it's also not as sensitive to mounting pressure, get that wrong with LGA and it's largely the same story.

[Fnige]

25 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

 If you want to relive the good old days, just get an Asus Maximus XIII Extreme Glacial and couple it with a Celeron G5900.

Essentially the opposite of a sleeper

[Moonzy]

Gonna wait and see if they actually hold the CPU in the socket before celebrating

 

I still have low faith in AMD

[StDragon]

5 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't really see why pcie 5.0 is necessary at this point. Would it be good to have? 

It's not necessary for now. But at some point, the AM5 platform will be presumably supporting PCIe 5.0 later in its life just as AM4 went from PCIe 3.0 to 4.0

 

The only reason for PCIe 5.0 that I can think of would be for DirectStorage with NVMe drives even though PCIe 4.0 would suffice now.

[Sakkura]

As long as they can add PCIe 5.0 later, when it's needed, this all sounds good to me.