Twitch streamers threatened with channel bans over copyrighted music

[TimeOmnivore]

One thing I'm sure many of you know if you watch Twitch streams with any regularity is that a great many streamers will have music playing in the background - copyrighted music. Apparently, those songs' copyright owners aren't too happy about this and have been issuing DMCA takedowns on Twitch VODs - many from 2019, but many also from clips dating as far back as 2017. Twitch's response to all of this is basically to tell streamers to go through their clips and delete those that contain copyrighted music - even though many streamers can have thousands upon thousands of clips to sort through. This has naturally led many streamers to be frustrated and scared that they could lose their job and income over this and find Twitch to be incredibly unhelpful during a time when their entire channel could go up in a puff of smoke at seemingly any moment.

 

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After panic and confusion over the weekend, the official Twitch Support Twitter account has given an update regarding the copyright strikes.

It assured that the streaming platform's “guidelines for music have not changed", and that the best course of action for streamers is to 'remove clips' if they're unsure about copyright infringement.

Quote

Many popular Twitch streamers vented their frustration and worries on social media, explaining that the strikes were for the music they played in past broadcasts.

Some streamers were sent an email by the Amazon-owned platform telling them that their channels could be permanently banned because of this.

I'm honestly surprised that it has taken so long for copyright to start catching up to Twitch. YouTube had to deal with this issue a long time ago, so it has been interesting to see that Twitch streamers have been able to get away with significantly more copyright infringement with seeming impunity - at least, until now. Personally, I both do and don't feel bad for the streamers in this situation. On one hand, losing their job over copyrighted music in years-old clips seems rather harsh, but on the other hand, how did most of them not see this coming? Surely they had to know that they wouldn't be able to get away with blatantly streaming copyrighted music in the background of their streams forever; eventually publishers were going to put an end to it. I hope Twitch implements some system for deleting old clips on mass soon, before channels start getting shut down.

 

Source:https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/gaming/twitch-streaming-dmca-copyright-music-ban-a4462261.html

[porina]

While not perfect by any means, if Twitch could adopt a Youtube style content identification system it could more easily flag not only where it was used, but for how long and e.g. offer to mute those sections. Or come to some agreement with the copyright holders for some kind of monetisation deal. I suspect this is probably what many of the holders want to push Twitch towards, as I don't think either side really want to deal with a bunch of DMCAs.

[bradwiggo]

Am I the only one who thinks music companies copyright claiming stuff like this and youtube videos is just scummy business practise? As if someone genuinely wants to "pirate" music by downloading it off youtube, surely they would just download the song (which are all available on youtube anyway), instead of downloading and clipping it out of a video with game audio or someone talking in it? I don't think the people who make the music are losing anything by youtubers or streamers having it in the background if it's in a game or something. If their problem is that people don't pay license fees for it, well none of these streamers would pay license fees as they wouldn't be able to afford it, they would just not use the music, so they aren't really losing anything that way either. 

[Trik'Stari]

Couldn't they just play the radio (as in FM radio stations)?

 

I ask, because recording companies have tried suing restaurants and bars in the past, and the court system determined that a license for the music was already paid for by the radio station, and the restaurants did not have to pay for a license to play music that was already publicly broadcast.

[bradwiggo]

1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

Couldn't they just play the radio (as in FM radio stations)?

 

I ask, because recording companies have tried suing restaurants and bars in the past, and the court system determined that a license for the music was already paid for by the radio station, and the restaurants did not have to pay for a license to play music that was already publicly broadcast.

I don't think they would be allowed to as ti would be classed as "recording" the radio, rather than just playing it. It's a bit dumb that they can't imo, as no one is gonna use a Twitch VOD to pirate music. 

[Arika]

Yes, this is exactly how i like to listen to songs i don't want to pay for. watch random streamers on twitch. i find the the talking and game sound effects really enhances the piratability of the music

[TimeOmnivore]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

if Twitch could adopt a Youtube style content identification system it could more easily flag not only where it was used, but for how long and e.g. offer to mute those sections

I'm pretty sure they do exactly that, I've seen plenty of VODs with sections muted, but I guess it wasn't enough?

 

10 minutes ago, bradwiggo said:

Am I the only one who thinks music companies copyright claiming stuff like this and youtube videos is just scummy business practise?

No, plenty of people would agree with you, myself included. Unfortunately, copyright law is in drastic need of a rework, but the various entertainment industries lobby hard to prevent that from happening. Sadly, copyright law being dumb isn't a valid reason to break it. Copyright holders only care about getting a cut if their content is involved in even the smallest way, regardless of whether the viewers are actually there for their content or not.

[bradwiggo]

1 minute ago, TimeOmnivore said:

I'm pretty sure they do exactly that, I've seen plenty of VODs with sections muted, but I guess it wasn't enough?

 

No, plenty of people would agree with you, myself included. Unfortunately, copyright law is in drastic need of a rework, but the various entertainment industries lobby hard to prevent that from happening. Sadly, copyright law being dumb isn't a valid reason to break it. Copyright holders only care about getting a cut, regardless of whether the viewers are actually there for their content or not.

Yeah I think copyright law wasn't really written for the internet age, it's a shame there are such powerful companies backing it which makes it difficult to change. 

[Volbet]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Couldn't they just play the radio (as in FM radio stations)?

 

I ask, because recording companies have tried suing restaurants and bars in the past, and the court system determined that a license for the music was already paid for by the radio station, and the restaurants did not have to pay for a license to play music that was already publicly broadcast.

No, a re-broadcast of an FM or satelite transmission is generally illegal, as the re-broadcaster doesn't hold a licens to broadcast the copyrighted material. 

The problem with is furthered on Twitch, as you can broadcast outside of the intended area of broadcast. A US-based doesn't necessarily hold a licens to a work outside the US, so a re-broadcaster couldn't inherit a licens to broadcast in the UK. 

 

In the case of restaurants and bars it totally depends on what they're playing back the radio signal on. 

If a bar "just" have a small transistor radio, then it's perfectly legal. If they're blasting it through a large PA, then it's not. It's all about whether or not the intend is performance, and the size of the equipment is one of the main arbiters of that. 

[RejZoR]

Music industry is straight up cancer and they wonder why no one wants to buy music. THIS IS ONE OF DAMN THINGS! It's not because people listen to it for free on streams because it plays in the background, it's because music industry is full of assholes.

 

If some streamer just straight up plays music and does nothing else, sure, whatever. But if someone has it in the background, just stop it. Stop being greedy assholes.

[Mateyyy]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Music industry is straight up cancer and they wonder why no one wants to buy music. THIS IS ONE OF DAMN THINGS! It's not because people listen to it for free on streams because it plays in the background, it's because music industry is full of assholes.

 

If some streamer just straight up plays music and does nothing else, sure, whatever. But if someone has it in the background, just stop it. Stop being greedy assholes.

Totally agree. If anything, a streamer that plays your music in the background will get you some more streams on Spotify, Tidal or any of the other streaming services out there which have become so popular especially over the last few years. And the sadder part is the fact that most of the actual artists probably don't even have anything to do with this, it's just the record labels.

This is just plain stupid, greedy and counterproductive.

[porina]

10 minutes ago, TimeOmnivore said:

I'm pretty sure they do exactly that, I've seen plenty of VODs with sections muted, but I guess it wasn't enough?

I'm not a significant re-watcher of old VODS so I've not come across that myself. 

 

I guess this is kinda what frustrates me. At the end of the day, right holders generally have two goals. Control, and cash. I think if they were willing to lose a bit of control they could increase the cash side. Right now, if I wanted to use some music, getting the rights is not going to be a trivial process, and even then, there's still a risk if I were to reuse it, it could still get automatically identified and hit. It would be a nice where I could go online and get a licence to reuse music for example, and that right would be attached so the usage can be tracked and enforced.

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, porina said:

While not perfect by any means, if Twitch could adopt a Youtube style content identification system it could more easily flag not only where it was used, but for how long and e.g. offer to mute those sections. Or come to some agreement with the copyright holders for some kind of monetisation deal. I suspect this is probably what many of the holders want to push Twitch towards, as I don't think either side really want to deal with a bunch of DMCAs.

thats what they already do, but it only applies to the recordings of previous podcasts so the live podcast gets away with it, thats probably what they want to change

1 hour ago, bradwiggo said:

Am I the only one who thinks music companies copyright claiming stuff like this and youtube videos is just scummy business practise? As if someone genuinely wants to "pirate" music by downloading it off youtube, surely they would just download the song (which are all available on youtube anyway), instead of downloading and clipping it out of a video with game audio or someone talking in it? I don't think the people who make the music are losing anything by youtubers or streamers having it in the background if it's in a game or something. If their problem is that people don't pay license fees for it, well none of these streamers would pay license fees as they wouldn't be able to afford it, they would just not use the music, so they aren't really losing anything that way either. 

copy right law is weird, if they dont try to protect it they loose the right to it, if i am not mistaken.

still to use someone else's music to help entertain your audience is not ok, they should be paying some sort of broadcast license the same way a radio show or tv show would, when we watch on youtube you are paying with the adds you are seeing, but if one add is showing the video to 1k people then they are loosing money.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

copy right law is weird, if they dont try to protect it they loose the right to it, if i am not mistaken.

You're thinking of trademark law there. Use it or lose it. I'm not aware of copyright having any similar constraints.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

Couldn't they just play the radio (as in FM radio stations)?

 

I ask, because recording companies have tried suing restaurants and bars in the past, and the court system determined that a license for the music was already paid for by the radio station, and the restaurants did not have to pay for a license to play music that was already publicly broadcast.

We're eventually going to have court cases on this for Spotify playlists. But, right now, the takedowns will be enforced.

 

The weird part is they're takedown notices. We'll have to see how this plays out. For now, RIP to all of those years of vods & clips about to disappear.

[That Franc]

I'd say let the companies send streamers a full list of VODs and clips that contain the music they want to be taken down. It's only fair.

 

At the same time there's a different perspective from a streamer that I personally find sane and rational:

 

[spartaman64]

ive been content ID claimed by companies for game music and im like bruh fine you can take my 8 cents of youtube revenue LUL but i wonder how big youtubers handle that and does this apply to twitch also

 

[Trik'Stari]

38 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

We're eventually going to have court cases on this for Spotify playlists. But, right now, the takedowns will be enforced.

 

The weird part is they're takedown notices. We'll have to see how this plays out. For now, RIP to all of those years of vods & clips about to disappear.

Or, the most popular twitch streamers should switch to free use music (there is some good stuff out there) and at least once per stream shit on the most popular music at the time, and encourage their fans to not purchase it or stream it.

 

I'd just find it funny if suddenly the music industry saw a big drop off in sales and listeners.

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Or, the most popular twitch streamers should switch to free use music (there is some good stuff out there) and at least once per stream shit on the most popular music at the time, and encourage their fans to not purchase it or stream it.

 

I'd just find it funny if suddenly the music industry saw a big drop off in sales and listeners.

That's easy to say if they're just using it for background music, but it's a real problem if you're a music game streamer (say, Just Dance).  You may get in trouble simply because a fan really liked a routine.

[porina]

30 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

ive been content ID claimed by companies for game music and im like bruh fine you can take my 8 cents of youtube revenue LUL but i wonder how big youtubers handle that and does this apply to twitch also

Some game devs are ahead of the curve on this, and will indicate in game what is stream-safe or not.

 

Many times I see youtubers turning off optional music, just in case it isn't safe to use. It seems in general in-house produced or instrumental background music are quite safe, but anything with vocals, especially if from outside the devs or publisher, is much higher risk.

 

If you specialise in only certain games, you can do more research into what is or isn't allowed. For example, in FFXIV they have a webpage listing what is or isn't allowed to be used, and how. Cities Skylines is an example with a stream safe indicator on their radio packs. 

[suicidalfranco]

what if you are in italy, pay the SIAE (governmental agency that handles copyright in italy) either the subscription (around 2000€ for a semester)or the daily fee (around 200€), pretty much now have the legal right to play to a public whatever music, who'd be in the wrong then?

[bradwiggo]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

thats what they already do, but it only applies to the recordings of previous podcasts so the live podcast gets away with it, thats probably what they want to change

copy right law is weird, if they dont try to protect it they loose the right to it, if i am not mistaken.

still to use someone else's music to help entertain your audience is not ok, they should be paying some sort of broadcast license the same way a radio show or tv show would, when we watch on youtube you are paying with the adds you are seeing, but if one add is showing the video to 1k people then they are loosing money.

I get what you mean but I would argue they aren't strictly "losing money", as I doubt any Twitch Streamer or YouTube would bother getting a music licence, they would just use licence free music. If they are using it on purpose as background music then I can sympathise with the Music Label a tiny bit (still not much as they are a massive company versus an individual), but if it's just a case of the music being in a game, or being playing in a public place then they really shouldn't be claiming the videos. 

[Trik'Stari]

8 minutes ago, Commodus said:

That's easy to say if they're just using it for background music, but it's a real problem if you're a music game streamer (say, Just Dance).  You may get in trouble simply because a fan really liked a routine.

I hadn't considered that genre of gaming.

8 minutes ago, porina said:

Some game devs are ahead of the curve on this, and will indicate in game what is stream-safe or not.

 

Many times I see youtubers turning off optional music, just in case it isn't safe to use. It seems in general in-house produced or instrumental background music are quite safe, but anything with vocals, especially if from outside the devs or publisher, is much higher risk.

 

If you specialise in only certain games, you can do more research into what is or isn't allowed. For example, in FFXIV they have a webpage listing what is or isn't allowed to be used, and how. Cities Skylines is an example with a stream safe indicator on their radio packs. 

Seems to me that the games industry should just move towards either using free use music (Again there is some great stuff out there) or making their own music and allowing it to be streamed.

 

I want the backlash from this to cost the music industry more than the piracy and copyright violations allegedly do. Just because "fuck the record labels".

[williamcll]

Honestly at this point either:

A: rework the copyright law

B: allow content creators to buy music broadcasting licenses like in shops and markets.

[Doobeedoo]

I always hated this crap thqr literally completely can scuff your content be it YT or twitch. This type of copyright is such annoyance. I know number of streamers just playing non copyright music so no issues. Other way, delete all clips and vods hah.