Twitch streamers threatened with channel bans over copyrighted music

[spartaman64]

is this why my clip of hikaru getting brain damage from watching xqc stalemate got deleted and when i check the clips theres only like 8 clips

rip from now on im uploading all my clips i really want to keep to streamable

[Lurick]

43 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

I always hated this crap thqr literally completely can scuff your content be it YT or twitch. This type of copyright is such annoyance. I know number of streamers just playing non copyright music so no issues. Other way, delete all clips and vods hah. 

Until some jackass claims that non-copywritten music as theirs and then the creator has to prove their innocence and fight tooth and nail.

[Teddy07]

Pretty entitled some streamers. They should be lucky to play copyrighted music on stream without paying

[HarryNyquist]

6 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

Pretty entitled some streamers. They should be lucky to play copyrighted music on stream without paying

Yeah how entitled some of them are to play a game with licensed music and the streamer does a funny while michael jackson plays in the background and they get banned for the clip haha how entitled

 

I'm not saying that's every situation here, mind you, but that's now a very distinct possibility of something a streamer could be banned for.

[TetraSky]

It was never permitted to playback copyrighted music, so they are kinda reaping what they sowed there. It's unfortunate, but it was expected, even if there was nothing being done about it for the longest of time.

(not talking about in-game music here, that SUCKS and frankly shouldn't be. Mostly talking about the streamers who are playing "their own music" in the background while they talk or play a game... There's ton of those, especially in the Just Chatting section on Twitch)

 

 

What irks me though, is that they are going after CLIPS (Which are anywhere between 5 seconds to 1 minute... AIN'T NOBODY WATCHING A CLIP TO LISTEN TO PART OF YOUR MUSIC, ridiculous), which are things made by the viewers and on which the streamer barely has any control over if I am to understand what some streamers have said about how even if they are advised to delete clips, the interface is shit and it doesn't work. That they can't mass delete clips or anything like that, it just doesn't work.

Spoiler

 

And while Twitch would mute part of the VOD before that contained copyrighted stuff, lately even "muted" parts of a VOD are still playing audio just fine for me... Feels like there's more things broken than expected.

Though the fact that unlike Youtube, copyright strikes never expire on Twitch.... Is a sad thing indeed. Because it's like saying "this person will never change", even years from now, that strike will still be on their channel.

[Doobeedoo]

29 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Until some jackass claims that non-copywritten music as theirs and then the creator has to prove their innocence and fight tooth and nail.

No there are actual non-copyright music out there already it's know, depends on user what he uses. Limited yes but yeah..

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, porina said:

While not perfect by any means, if Twitch could adopt a Youtube style content identification system ...

Twitch does, how do you think they were able to send so many DMCA's.

 

The ideal situation, for both Twitch and Youtube is to ID content that contains "claimed" audio and either:

a) withdraw the entire video, no strike given

b) mute the claimed section, no strike given

 

The point of a strike is to ban users who are willfully violating copyright, eg watching films, or rebroadcasting cable/satellite.

 

[Kisai]

17 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

No there are actual non-copyright music out there already it's know, depends on user what he uses. Limited yes but yeah..

The problem is that even if you use music that is free to use (eg from soundcloud with a PD, royalty-free, or some CC licenses), that doesn't stop some asshat to claim it on youtube and twitch so they can steal the ad revenue.

[PlayStation 2]

Some random Twitch streamer: h

Any major corporation with entertainment copyrights: DID SOMEONE SAY AD REVENUE

[Lurick]

25 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

No there are actual non-copyright music out there already it's know, depends on user what he uses. Limited yes but yeah..

As @Kisai said, that won't stop someone from trying. There are many instances of big labels claiming copyright on stuff they don't even own, heck they have automated systems that claim copyright on their own channels from time to time.

[Doobeedoo]

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

The problem is that even if you use music that is free to use (eg from soundcloud with a PD, royalty-free, or some CC licenses), that doesn't stop some asshat to claim it on youtube and twitch so they can steal the ad revenue.

As far as on twitch from streamers I know that use it for years had no issues though. The systems on both sites should be way better that is true.

[Doobeedoo]

6 minutes ago, Lurick said:

As @Kisai said, that won't stop someone from trying. There are many instances of big labels claiming copyright on stuff they don't even own, heck they have automated systems that claim copyright on their own channels from time to time.

Yeah systems really are lame and it seems those companies don't care enough to fix that. Can't say for everyone or YT user using, their system is trash, though on Twitch I've never heard of such issues from streamers I know for years that use royalty free music.

[Kisai]

4 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Yeah systems really are lame and it seems those companies don't care enough to fix that. Can't say for everyone or YT user using, their system is trash, though on Twitch I've never heard of such issues from streamers I know for years that use royalty free music.

That's because reporting systems only really allow you to shotgun DMCA's.

 

- send a list of URL's, that probably had to be cribbed from google or other search engines. Nobody, read nobody, can review individually 1000's of items, even though there is a requirement to do so.

 

- YT, Twitch, and thousands of other sites tend to have SEO optimization nonsense that makes multiple url's point to the same content. So shotgunning tends to be the only option for these sites.

 

Filing a DMCA to google for example, only lets you do it 1000 items at a time, ONLY. Crappier forms like that which cloudflare has, are further designed to make sending DMCA's more fustrating and slower, so even less opportunity to review the content is done.

 

The thing is, with Youtube, Twitch, Mixer, Facebook, etc, the way things "should" work, is that the copyright owner gets a message that "this video may contain copyright content that you have claimed previously" and they should actually click to review it. However, will lawyers know every single piece of music that a recording studio owns? Unlikely. The artist isn't going to spend time doing it either.

 

So a lot of DMCA stuff is operating in a vacuum where the people sending the reports don't know if they're wrong, and the people being hit with the reports aren't provided with a way to negotiate, or even show the license they do have.

 

And that's the gaping hole in trying to meet everyone in the middle. There's no negotiation, no opportunity to learn and withdraw/mute the item.

 

[F.E.A.R.]

Twitch has been a joke for a very long time now. Now people are threatened to get banned over "copyright music"? I call this bullshit move but what do you expect from a streaming service that doesn't ban THOTS.

[justpoet]

While I feel for the twitch streamers…I also don't.  Suck it up and go through your content to edit out or take down music you don't own, or go pay for a license of it if the non-edited clip is important.

 

Streamers are in a content production and distribution business…and in these cases are using other people's copyrighted content without permission (it has been argued in the past that this can legally apply to their game content as well, though it would be suicidal for a game developer to try and enforce at this point).  If somebody were to take a popular streamer's stream and start re-using it continually for profit without paying the streamer, they'd be upset too.

 

While I agree with the many many calls of complete copyright/patent/trademark reform, easier methods of licensing economically, etc...that has not happened yet.  So play by the rules until you can change them.

[Doobeedoo]

3 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's because reporting systems only really allow you to shotgun DMCA's.

 

- send a list of URL's, that probably had to be cribbed from google or other search engines. Nobody, read nobody, can review individually 1000's of items, even though there is a requirement to do so.

 

- YT, Twitch, and thousands of other sites tend to have SEO optimization nonsense that makes multiple url's point to the same content. So shotgunning tends to be the only option for these sites.

 

Filing a DMCA to google for example, only lets you do it 1000 items at a time, ONLY. Crappier forms like that which cloudflare has, are further designed to make sending DMCA's more fustrating and slower, so even less opportunity to review the content is done.

 

The thing is, with Youtube, Twitch, Mixer, Facebook, etc, the way things "should" work, is that the copyright owner gets a message that "this video may contain copyright content that you have claimed previously" and they should actually click to review it. However, will lawyers know every single piece of music that a recording studio owns? Unlikely. The artist isn't going to spend time doing it either.

 

So a lot of DMCA stuff is operating in a vacuum where the people sending the reports don't know if they're wrong, and the people being hit with the reports aren't provided with a way to negotiate, or even show the license they do have.

 

And that's the gaping hole in trying to meet everyone in the middle. There's no negotiation, no opportunity to learn and withdraw/mute the item.

 

Yeah an issue indeed, I've heard a talk about this on a stream, it's definitely something that needs to be looked at, especially how well day to day internet and interactivity evolves.

[porina]

39 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Twitch does, how do you think they were able to send so many DMCA's.

Twitch doesn't initiate the DMCAs. That's the job of the copyright holders. Twitch's role is only to pass it along.

[Roswell]

This really isn't that crazy or outrageous. If you decide to rebroadcast copyrighted material, expect to face consequences. Simple.

[spartaman64]

18 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

This really isn't that crazy or outrageous. If you decide to rebroadcast copyrighted material, expect to face consequences. Simple.

me: plays clannad*

key sound labels who made the game music: so you have chosen copyright strike

sorry my bad for not muting the game i guess

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, justpoet said:

While I feel for the twitch streamers…I also don't.  Suck it up and go through your content to edit out or take down music you don't own, or go pay for a license of it if the non-edited clip is important

the thing is they don't make the clips it is stuff viewers create and there can been thousands made in a year.

 

I really want copyright to be shrank to 40 years, I'll accept 50 but nothing longer. both so we can have older music to use without having to worry and so that a full rewrite can happen.

[jasonvp]

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

the thing is they don't make the clips it is stuff viewers create and there can been thousands made in a year.

This is penance then.  It's arguable that the copyright laws of today are a challenge for the Internet; what isn't arguable is that the aforementioned streamer(s) in this case broke the law.  They broadcasted copyrighted material they didn't own.  Period.  And they, for the most part, got away with it.  The worst thing that might have happened is chunks of their VODs being muted.  Boo hoo.

 

Penance.  1) Stop broadcasting copyrighted material on your streams, period.  2) Start cleaning up all of those clips and VODs.

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

Penance.  1) Stop broadcasting copyrighted material on your streams, period.  2) Start cleaning up all of those clips and VODs.

It ins't always clear what is and isn't. There are way to many games that have copyrighted music. There are those who blatantly use it but not everyone does

if you read above they are trying to clean them up and the site is basically locking up

[Roswell]

31 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

me: plays clannad*

key sound labels who made the game music: so you have chosen copyright strike

sorry my bad for not muting the game i guess

Publishers have permitted streamers to broadcast their copyrighted material on twitch. That's not the case for music labels.

[Touch My Hamm]

im surprised its taken this long before these DMCA companies to start spamming twitch like they do youtube and Facebook videos and live streams. I streamed to youtube once where I got copywrite claimed that my World of Warcraft Night elf area music was owned by some random company and they didnt take the video down. Instead they just took monetization....even though I dont even monetize any of my videos. 

Until other companies come by and create their own music company that allows internet age usage or the laws for copywrite on streams/videos change it will be a warzone of DMCA claims left and right. but thats just IMO.

[GDRRiley]

5 minutes ago, GodSeph said:

Until other companies come by and create their own music company that allows internet age usage or the laws for copywrite on streams/videos change it will be a warzone of DMCA claims left and right. but thats just IMO.

I do know of a site that once you download a song with their subscription you can use it for the rest of your life for any type of work including commercial. I'm not going to advertise them so no name. To say the least many people who pay for the big music services hate how much of a pain they are