Twitch streamers threatened with channel bans over copyrighted music

[jasonvp]

14 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

It ins't always clear what is and isn't. There are way to many games that have copyrighted music.

That's not in question here.  The "in question" is playing your Spotify/Pandora/Slacker/et al streams, or your own CDs or MP3s that you ripped or purchased.

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

The "in question" is playing your Spotify/Pandora/Slacker/et al streams, or your own CDs or MP3s that you ripped or purchased.

 there isn't 1 question or discussion thing happening here. theres about 5 things all wrapped up into this

[jagdtigger]

If the music was just a background "filler" and not the main attraction of the show i dont see any reason why anyone should get into trouble for copyright infringement. Especially if the streamer talks over it making it transformative in nature.

[Touch My Hamm]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

I do know of a site that once you download a song with their subscription you can use it for the rest of your life for any type of work including commercial. I'm not going to advertise them so no name. To say the least many people who pay for the big music services hate how much of a pain they are 

There are a few sub based options for music. What is weird is the imaginary line between listening to say music or watching a movie on a steam or youtube video talking throughout and the "Reaction" videos. There shoudl be more laws made or ammended since the internet age has changed what people believe to be stealing music/movies and being trans-formative. Not saying anything good or bad about each just saying this will keep going deeper and deeper with DMCA until something changes.

[justpoet]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

the thing is they don't make the clips it is stuff viewers create and there can been thousands made in a year.

 

I really want copyright to be shrank to 40 years, I'll accept 50 but nothing longer. both so we can have older music to use without having to worry and so that a full rewrite can happen.

They DO make the clips.  They made the content, the viewers just pointed it out by clipping it.  The only thing the clips do is retain evidence of the infraction that took place on the live stream.

[justpoet]

21 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

If the music was just a background "filler" and not the main attraction of the show i dont see any reason why anyone should get into trouble for copyright infringement. Especially if the streamer talks over it making it transformative in nature.

Commonly an issue with songs when filming in a public place with muzak or a radio station playing.  Just because you're talking over it, or even weren't in control of it, doesn't mean the requirement to license it for your content goes away.  If you're cutting it up and changing it for the purpose of satire or critique, without going beyond segments of reasonable use, then you can legally get away with it.  Otherwise, you need a license.

 

Again, not saying I agree it should be this way, but that is how it has been.

[GDRRiley]

4 minutes ago, justpoet said:

Commonly an issue with songs when filming in a public place with muzak or a radio station playing.  Just because you're talking over it, or even weren't in control of it, doesn't mean the requirement to license it for your content goes away.

us law is such a mess. it often does go away because it isn't intended or trying to use copyright music. There is more leeway for live broadcasts in public

11 minutes ago, justpoet said:

They DO make the clips.  They made the content, the viewers just pointed it out by clipping it.  The only thing the clips do is retain evidence of the infraction that took place on the live stream.

my point was mostly they don't control how many are made. I got very little sympathy for record labels or other big copyright holders they've extended the law out so far I will be dying before I could use music from the 70s let alone music from today.

[justpoet]

Just now, GDRRiley said:

us law is such a mess. it often does go away because it isn't intended or trying to use copyright music. There is more leeway for live broadcasts in public

my point was mostly they don't control how many are made. I got very little sympathy for record labels or other big copyright holders they've extended the law out so far I will be dying before I could use music from the 70s let alone music from today.

I fully agree that copyright/patent/trademark law is a mess.  It needs reform badly.

 

But that's not the real topic.  The topic is that the twitch streamers are actually liable for the content they are using and producing.  We can complain about happy birthday getting continual recording copyright extensions all we want, but if we use it in a recording, we're still going to have to pay.  Just because there's a lot of twitch users using other people's work, doesn't make it legal, even if it would be with a sensible reform of copyright law.

[jagdtigger]

4 minutes ago, justpoet said:

It needs reform badly.

Even if that happens it wont change for the better, im pretty confident about that. It is going to be rewritten in  the favor of media industry without regard to anyone else.

[GDRRiley]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Even if that happens it wont change for the better, im pretty confident about that. It is going to be rewritten in  the favor of media industry without regard to anyone else.

 I expect if it gets rewritten you'll end with another people vs corp situation and I'd hope in the US it will change to people being listen too.

[Guest]

I’m pretty sure every Twitch streamer or YouTube presenter knows how volatile those industries are and have a backup plan or additional income. 

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

I’m pretty sure every Twitch streamer or YouTube presenter knows how volatile those industries are and have a backup plan or additional income. 

No they don't. There are literatal "radio station" and "DJ" stations that were targeted with this round of DMCA's, along with people playing games that have licensed music in them (such as Let's Dance)

 

https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing

 

Twitch, Youtube and Soundcloud have ASCAP licenses. Which means you can make your own karaoke cover of a song and not have that pulled, but the second you reproduce the original (mechanical/synchronization license requirement) that's out the door.

Quote

Do I need an ASCAP music license if I'm streaming my performances through a third-party, such as YouTube, Facebook or Instagram?

Fortunately, most popular live-streaming platforms, such as YouTube, Facebook, Instagram Live, Soundcloud and Twitch are licensed by ASCAP. If individual performers, ensembles and venues only use a licensed platform to stream their content, no other ASCAP licensing is necessary for that streaming activity.

 

[Kisai]

On 6/8/2020 at 4:23 AM, Mateyyy said:

Totally agree. If anything, a streamer that plays your music in the background will get you some more streams on Spotify, Tidal or any of the other streaming services out there which have become so popular especially over the last few years. And the sadder part is the fact that most of the actual artists probably don't even have anything to do with this, it's just the record labels.

This is just plain stupid, greedy and counterproductive.

The "for exposure" argument never works. People die from exposure. 

 

Now, what would improve the situation for streamers would be for the ContentID mechanic to actually integrate into the streamer's software in some meaningful way (eg playing a song on itunes or spotify would send the meta tag to the streaming service, the streaming service would do a license check and come back and go "no, skip that one", and when something is licensed properly it would be something people watching the stream could click on to add to their spotify, apple music, etc playlists.)

 

In a similar thought, Facebook should ID all the stolen comics and stock photos on their platform and do the same.

[Catt0s]

I don't know if anyone has said this but here is some info:

What ACTUALLY happened: Some certain streamers had been playing top 200 songs for over a year and were making money off it. Companies decided to take action. More than likely, most streamers will be fine as long as you are not playing popular songs on repeat the entire stream for a long time. When it gained attention, everyone assumed it would happen to them too. The point is that while I cannot guarantee anything, streamers are mostly safe. this is secondhand information, apparently the original is with twitch support on twitter. I don't know how music-based games will be impacted, but the reality is that the streamers who were originally dmca'd (i think) were  using it for background music, not gameplay. 

[Kisai]

8 hours ago, Catt0s said:

I don't know if anyone has said this but here is some info:

What ACTUALLY happened: Some certain streamers had been playing top 200 songs for over a year and were making money off it. Companies decided to take action. More than likely, most streamers will be fine as long as you are not playing popular songs on repeat the entire stream for a long time. When it gained attention, everyone assumed it would happen to them too. The point is that while I cannot guarantee anything, streamers are mostly safe. this is secondhand information, apparently the original is with twitch support on twitter. I don't know how music-based games will be impacted, but the reality is that the streamers who were originally dmca'd (i think) were  using it for background music, not gameplay. 

The streamers were using it for "foreground" music, not just background music in the case of DJ/Radio streams.

 

The thing is, and you can pop into various twitch or mixer streams to see this for yourself, find someone who is just playing a piano/keyboard or any other programmable instrument. If they can play the song live, it shouldn't be a problem, but if they're just playing from a playlist or pre-recording music, then no.

 

Like Twitch has a category for this: https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Music %26 Performing Arts 

 

If you look at the top dozen or so channels, half of them are DJ/Radio channels. The rest are live performances.

[SpikeSpiegel]

 

[RoseLuck462]

The streamers I follow have been weary of using copyrighted music for years now sp this should be no surprise.

 

Lazy streamers need to be more proactive. 

[FlyingPenguin]

Just watched the WAN show where linus makes fun of people who think their spotify account means they own the song and it gave me an idea.

 

Why has no site ever tried to integrate with AppleMusic/GoogleMusic/Spotify. You stream with your spotify account on and play music. Viewers have to link their spotify premium account to twitch and when the streamer plays a song, your spotify counts it as a listen.

 

Instead of trying to revolutionize how copyright and licensing works, why not just make it so everyone gets their on individual listen listences for all the streamed stuff?

[Lurick]

11 hours ago, FlyingPenguin said:

Just watched the WAN show where linus makes fun of people who think their spotify account means they own the song and it gave me an idea.

 

Why has no site ever tried to integrate with AppleMusic/GoogleMusic/Spotify. You stream with your spotify account on and play music. Viewers have to link their spotify premium account to twitch and when the streamer plays a song, your spotify counts it as a listen.

 

Instead of trying to revolutionize how copyright and licensing works, why not just make it so everyone gets their on individual listen listences for all the streamed stuff?

Having listened to/talked with some musician streamers and they say there are people working on something like this I believe. The record labels want to count the listen/spin rate and currently there isn't a way for them to do that so if something can make that happen then it will help a lot I think. Of course then you have to force people to have an account somewhere else just to listen to musicians on another platform so it gets fuzzy that way too.

[ARikozuM]

On 6/8/2020 at 7:09 AM, Arika S said:

Yes, this is exactly how i like to listen to songs i don't want to pay for. watch random streamers on twitch. i find the the talking and game sound effects really enhances the piratability of the music

I find nothing wrong with this statement. 

 

Who doesn't want to hear Car Wash with background vocals of "fuck! fuck! How did he kill me as soon as I turned the corner! WTF!". Classic 70's, you were so much fun.