Canadian Music Group Proposes ‘Copyright Tax’ on Internet Use

[jagdtigger]

https://torrentfreak.com/canadian-music-group-proposes-copyright-tax-on-internet-use-181006/

 

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“With regard to YouTube, which is owned by the advertising company Alphabet-Google, minuscule revenue distribution is being reported by our members. Royalties from the large streaming services, like Amazon and Netflix, are 50 to 95% lower when compared to those from terrestrial broadcasters,” SCGC writes (pdf).

“Statistics like this indicate that our veteran members will soon have to seek employment elsewhere and young screen-composers will have little hope of sustaining a livelihood,” the guild adds, sounding the alarm bell.

SCGC’s solution to this problem is to make every Canadian pay an extra fee when they use over 15 gigabytes of data per month. This money would then be used to compensate composers and fix the so-called ‘value gap’.

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However, SCGC doesn’t see the problem and believes that 15 gigabytes are enough. People who want to avoid paying can still use email and share photos, they argue. Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos.

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“[W]hen you’re downloading and consuming over 15 gigabytes of data a month, you’re likely streaming Spotify. You’re likely streaming YouTube. You’re likely streaming Netflix. So we think because the FANG companies will not give us access to the numbers that they have, we have to apply a broad-based levy. They’re forcing us to.”

In short:

You have to pay extra tax if you go over 15 GB because they think that means you are watching their content.

 

 

Its really hard for me to avoid profanity its so insanely dumb. They are forced to do this? What about modernizing your business model(ditch drm, region locks, etc) and get back to reality with pricing? It pisses me off how some good for nothing parasites tries to freeload.

And what is this idiocy about "15 GB will be enough". It seems they never heard about steam, gog, battle.net, origin, etc....

[vanished]

Last I checked our administration when it comes to tech issues is at least semi-competent so I am cautiously optimistic that this will be shot down completely and rapidly.

[PlayStation 2]

We already get screwed by streaming services, why should the government screw us even more?

Yes I know it's Canada.

[Egg-Roll]

Yea, that's going to go nowhere... Not even the internet providers will tolerate it as it's more work on their end, at least for the CD tax it gets dinged upon import, this requires providers to higher people to actually work on this and issue payments and create systems, internal regulations for such things....

 

Also the Gov is trying to help its people on lowering costs of bandwidth more than increasing it, which this will do...

 

If it does go into play my monthly usage is around 300GB so after 15GB even at 10 cents a GB would have a additional cost of $28.50 which nearly doubles my internet costs...

[Delicieuxz]

The proposal is pretty daft - anything over 15 GB suggests people are streaming their content? Heck no. A person watching let's play playthroughs or steaming gaming on YouTube will likely use up more than that. Also, people have already paid to stream content on YouTube and Spotify, etc. It sounds to me like the SCGC are going after the wrong target and seeking to make consumers pay for doing nothing wrong while digital streaming services, the ones SCGC have issue with, aren't impacted at all.

 

Maybe there are other ways for them to go about getting the data they need from digital streaming services so that they can negotiate a fair deal with them.

 

 

But, this proposal is highly unlikely to go anywhere, as Justin Trudeau previously stated the Liberal government is not going to create new taxes on internet usage:

 

Trudeau Puts An End to the Netflix and ISP Tax Debate: “Consumers…Pay Enough for Their Internet”

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Mr. Speaker, the NDP is proposing to raise taxes on the middle class, which is something we promised we would not do and have not done. We explicitly promised in the 2015 election campaign that we would not be raising taxes on Netflix. People may remember Stephen Harper’s attack ads on that. They were false. We actually moved forward in demonstrating that we were not going to raise taxes on consumers, who pay enough for their Internet at home.

 

 

Mr. Speaker, once again, as the NDP has said, web giants must pay their fair share. It is not web giants that the NDP wants to charge, it is taxpayers. The New Democrats want to make taxpayers pay more taxes. They want Canadians, Quebec and Canadian taxpayers, to pay more taxes for their online services. We, on this side of the House, promised not to raise taxes for taxpayers, and we are going to stand by that promise. If the New Democrats want to raise taxes for Canadians, they should say so instead of hiding behind talk of big corporations.

 

 

[TimeOmnivore]

Yeah... no. I use 15GB a day, if not more. 15GB per month is an absurdly small amount, showing that the people proposing this change have no idea what they're talking about. Even if the 'extra fee' was one-time only (per month), so you'd pay the same extra amount whether you used 16GB or 16TB, this would still be a terrible idea.

 

Also, this:

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Those who go over the cap are likely streaming not properly compensated videos.

is downright insulting. People can easily use far more data than their cap provides without even going near the content of the people this group wants to compensate.

 

All that said, I'm not Canadian, so even if this was implemented it wouldn't affect me (at least not directly), but this is still bullshit that needs to be called out on.

[dalekphalm]

48 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Last I checked our administration when it comes to tech issues is at least semi-competent so I am cautiously optimistic that this will be shot down completely and rapidly.

Agreed - the odds of this actually making it into legislation is pretty slim.

 

Furthermore, no one forced any artists into signing on to Spotify, or uploading their content to YouTube. Artists already get compensated for both. If they feel like they aren't getting paid enough for Spotify, then drop the platform and go elsewhere, like Taylor Swift did (mind you, she's now returned to the platform).

 

This would make sense if we were talking about wide spread piracy, but no, they are talking about perfectly legitimate services in which musicians get paid.

[Tech_Dreamer]

Ever had a house near roadside & thought "damn i should open up a toll booth & block every passenger & charge a fee & explain that funded cash will be used to construct rooms that will block out constant noise coming from their cars that they have to pay compensation for their disturbance? "

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

56 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

You have to pay extra tax if you go over 15 GB because they think that means you are watching their content.

I'd use 15GB in a week ... if I were only watching TWiT shows.  2-300GB in a month is easy enough without listening to music on YT.

 

This is so stupid. 

[Upierczi]

So, if I buy a game on steam, e.g. GTA V and download it, then I'm pirating their music? What if someone watches Netflix on a daily basis in their 4k TV? This makes no sense whatsoever. It's like you see a house on fire, and someone is setting up their barbeque five blocks away and you blame them for the fire.

[sof006]

A lot of users will use 15GB very fast and not even realise it. Home broadband where multiple devices can connect to the internet at any given time will chew up that kind of data in probably a few minutes. 

[S w a t s o n]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Last I checked our administration when it comes to tech issues is at least semi-competent so I am cautiously optimistic that this will be shot down completely and rapidly.

Well we did get that fucking tariff on blank CDs but the times have changed and I agree. This is very unlikely to catch any real attention from the feds or CRTC.

[vanished]

Just now, S w a t s o n said:

Well we did get that fucking tariff on blank CDs but the times have changed and I agree. This is very unlikely to catch any real attention from the feds or CRTC.

As silly as that was, it makes a lot more sense than this, plus that was a different era so yeah, hoping this won't be a repeat lol

[Sauron]

What about people who use their internet to download steam games, or watch videos that have nothing to do with these people's music, OR EVEN AN ALREADY PAID FOR MUSIC SERVICE LIKE SPOTIFY?

 

You know what, I'm ok with this - IF that means I can access every piece of copyrighted content available at no extra cost. What? Would I not be paying for that content with this tax? If not, what is its point?

[RejZoR]

They can kindly stuff it where sun doesn't shine very often. I can't even use Spotify and I live in middle of frigging Europe, Netflix doesn't have half of content US people get and yet I'm paying more for it (coz $ = €) and I use Youtube to watch everything but music videos. I have an exquisite taste and I watch Linus Tech Tips, not some stupid rapper with bitches, golden chainz and Ferarri...

 

We already got this retarded "tax" in my country. Even if you are the content creator, you paid this tax on every CD/DVD, USB drive, HDD or SSD. Even if you stored your own original content on it. Back in the day we called such stuff theft. And that's exactly what such "taxes" are. Theft by greedy corporations.

[kokakolia]

As Canadians our internet, phone and cable bills are already excessive thanks to the monopoly between the handful of network/cell providers. Why should we pay tax on top of getting our skin ripped off by the greedy AF cable companies!?

[mr moose]

That's just funny, nothing but moronic and funny.

 

I agree with them that the internet has shot the music industry into blitherenes, but this is like taxing drivers because there are criminals using getaway cars.  It just defies logic.

 

 

[paddy-stone]

So, they don't see that people have data uses beyond their very limited scope, LOL - what a DAF argument. Game downloads, system updates and other software, new OS, restoring backups etc etc. TBH if a housegold ISN'T using over 15GB I would be seriously surprised. Plus even if you are streaming youtube etc, there's no proof that any copyrighted works are being used without the owners consent... that's something that should be taken up with the streaming companies, NOT the end user really. It's not like I can see what music has been used in the content of a video I watch, and even if I could there's still no reason I would think it was used without consent.

Without it turning too political, the governments of the world should really stop all this lobbying that goes on by media companies etc, everyone should have a voice about what gets listened to in politics, not just because they have lots of money to throw at a senator or whatever to get him to bring it up. It doesn't mean I don't feel for the artists/creators themselves, I do.. I just don't feel that taxing everyone, or criminalizing it is the answer. If my business model no longer worked, I would have to look at changing it, not pay people off in contributions etc to have them make it bad for everyone, no matter if they do it or not.

 

[TetraSky]

15GB in the whole month is enough?!

Whose usage are they basing this on!?! Grandpa's internet habits!?

Simply browsing the web for a couple hours, without any video or audio, can easily rack up 1GB. Heck, they seems to assume all traffic from youtube is for music they own the copyright to, as if youtube was just music.
Not to mention online gaming, game and system updates, being multiple users on the same network, etc etc etc.

The music industry is once again proving that they are way behind the time.

 

If I go by data usage on my single machine (out of 4 other machine/devices on the network), in the last 30 days, Steam used 12GB of data, "System" used 4.32GB, Vivaldi used 67.85GB... I didn't listen to a single song online during that period of time.

I would seriously consider suing/launching a class action lawsuit if we start getting taxed for this shit.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

15GB in the whole month is enough?!

 

Absolutely it is

 

My family absolutely does not stream or download any illegal content, we have 4 in the house who all game and watch netflix/youtube and we regularly consume a little over 600Gb a month.

[Just Monika]

Weird Face proposes "Canadian Music Group" should fuck right off.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, S w a t s o n said:

Well we did get that fucking tariff on blank CDs but the times have changed and I agree. This is very unlikely to catch any real attention from the feds or CRTC.

Yea, but I like the tax, I can go out buy a blank CD (for like $1.50) go to a friends/family's house "borrow" their computer and CD to make a legally obtained copy of said disc... Far cheaper then wasting $12+ for the same music  Equally I can bring over everything needed for said person hand the discs over to them the computer and let them copy it for their own use, 100% legal. I can't make a copy for them, but I can lend/give them everything they need to make the copy.

 

It's the only Tax I never want to see leave.

[kirashi]

Just now, Egg-Roll said:

ea, but I like the tax, I can go out buy a blank CD (for like $1.50) go to a friends/family's house "borrow" their computer and CD to make a legally obtained copy of said disc... Far cheaper then wasting $12+ for the same music  Equally I can bring over everything needed for said person had the discs over to them the computer and let them copy it for their own use, 100% legal. I can't make a copy for them, but I can lend/give them everything they need to make the copy.

Um.... just so you know, making a copy of a music CD bought at Sunrise Records (or HMV, when that was still a thing) is legal only as a personal backup, and only if listened to by the same person who originally acquired the license for the content when they purchased the original CD. Copying CD's with the intention of giving them to someone to listen to who didn't purchase the original is still a form of piracy, even with the CD Levy tax.

 

Now I'm not saying that other members of your immediate household should be arrested for eavesdropping tunes from a CD you purchased, as this would be absolutely impossible to enforce, in addition to being plain stupid. But making copies of CD's to give away to others (or for yourself) that you never purchased a license for isn't legal, unless you're also transferring the license from the original purchaser, such as buying CD's at garage sales.

[Egg-Roll]

27 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Um.... just so you know, making a copy of a music CD bought at Sunrise Records (or HMV, when that was still a thing) is legal only as a personal backup, and only if listened to by the same person who originally acquired the license for the content when they purchased the original CD. Copying CD's with the intention of giving them to someone to listen to who didn't purchase the original is still a form of piracy, even with the CD Levy tax.

 

Now I'm not saying that other members of your immediate household should be arrested for eavesdropping tunes from a CD you purchased, as this would be absolutely impossible to enforce, in addition to being plain stupid. But making copies of CD's to give away to others (or for yourself) that you never purchased a license for isn't legal, unless you're also transferring the license from the original purchaser, such as buying CD's at garage sales.

http://www.musicbymailcanada.com/privcopy.html

Tho I'm sure I saw something of such manner on their actual site(cpcc)... Stating what can and can not be done...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-42/section-80.html

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• onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer’s performance or the sound recording.

Canada is weird

 

Edit: Like I said in my post, I can't make the copy however I can provide everything needed for said person to make the copy. As long as I don't benefit from it it is 100% legal.

[Trik'Stari]

I swear to god Canada, if you pass this and the US government looks at it like "well that's a great idea!" as a result, I will never forgive you.

 

Also, in what way does this proposed tax benefit the people advocating it? Would the Canadian government give them the proceeds from it? I find that highly unlikely if this did pass.