[UPDATE] Windows 10 October Update Potentially Deleting Files and a Warning for Intel Users

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

None of my important machines run Linux from 6 years of experience.

So you have no/some minimal experience wit it huh...... This argument ends here then because i started using linux something like 10(+) years ago. And even back then i didnt feel anything missing from it aside from games. And since MS gone down the toilet my main machine also running linux without any stability issues even if i dont turn it off for months!

And every time i read how MS screwed up for the umpteenth time i thank good i got off from that sinking ship.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

This argument ends here then because i started using linux something like 10(+) years ago.

That's pretty irrelevant. If I have 20 issues with a truck and only own it for a week, that doesn't devalue the fact that I had that many issues with the truck.

 

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

So you have no/some minimal experience wit it huh

That's a wildly inaccurate and idiotic assumption.

[Syntaxvgm]

 

24 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That doesn't make up for Linux itself being a shit alternative for most people.

18 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Can you provide some proof to back this up or you just stubborn? Because all of my machines run linux so im talking from experience.

"How do you do [x] in [insert distro]?"
"Simple, just open terminal and type-"
STOP

you've lost nearly everyone. It's an alternative for you and me, not general users. There's been a lot of progress in this front, but I maintain that Linux in general is only an alternative for people like you and me, not..."normies".
As much as I think the Ubuntu software center is shit, at least they're trying. We need "Normie Linux"  

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

 

"How do you do [x] in [insert distro]?"
"Simple, just open terminal and type-"
STOP

you've lost nearly everyone. It's an alternative for you and me, not general users. There's been a lot of progress in this front, but I maintain that Linux in general is only an alternative for people like you and me, not..."normies". 

Say one thing that normies would do and dont have a gui tool that requires a terminal.....

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's pretty irrelevant. If I have 20 issues with a truck and only own it for a week, that doesn't devalue the fact that I had that many issues with the truck.

Guess what, i didnt had issues..... The only time my machines shutdown/restart is when i tell them to. No crashes and freezes.

 

6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's a wildly inaccurate and idiotic assumption.

Its pretty evident from you ignorant posts that you dont have any meaningful experience with linux, and also that is why you cannot provide any reason why linux is not "a quarter way decent alternative to Windows for most people".

[Commodus]

Just now, Syntaxvgm said:

 

"How do you do [x] in [insert distro]?"
"Simple, just open terminal and type-"
STOP

you've lost nearly everyone. It's an alternative for you and me, not general users. There's been a lot of progress in this front, but I maintain that Linux in general is only an alternative for people like you and me, not..."normies". 

This is something you see so much in the tech enthusiast community: this insistence that everyone is or should be just as tech-savvy as they are, and that you're weaker as a person if you aren't.  There's a resentment for easy-to-understand interfaces that borders on a masochistic fetish.  "Oh, make it harder to use, baby!  Harder!  The less intuitive the better!"

 

Linux has come a long way in recent years, but it's not ready for most everyday users.  It feels like skating on thin ice.  Things are great until you have to go beyond the surface, then you're in over your head.

[Syntaxvgm]

23 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Say one thing that normies would do and dont have a gui tool that requires a terminal.....

Guess what, i didnt had issues..... The only time my machines shutdown/restart is when i tell them to. No crashes and freezes.

 

Its pretty evident from you ignorant posts that you dont have any meaningful experience with linux, and also that is why you cannot provide any reason why linux is not "a quarter way decent alternative to Windows for most people".

I have not successfully set up one thing without using the terminal. Literally the software center is the only that that doesn't require it. 
On windows, you download an exe, you click on it. Maybe run as admin. 

On say Ubuntu, if it's not in the software center (most crap isn't)  they have to take so many more steps to get it installed, Steps that make sense to us, but on their part requires research, and reading, really learning how to use a computer again from their perspective. 

Normies may even be "power users" on windows, with a nice surface level understanding of what they are doing. Maybe they've memorized keyboard shortcuts and can solve minor issues themselves. 

These days, most of the "go to terminal problems" I see aside from installing stuff is initial setup. Getting drivers to work right in some cases, getting font rendering right (though thank god it's not as bad as it used to be). These problems are on the way out the door, but they're not gone yet. Every problem you google has a command line solution. Every tweak is done that way too, hell it's editing a text file we're still using vi or nano or something in all the tutorials to fix it. Most of the documentation on programs assume power user or greater level of linux knowledge, and this is a problem for normies. 

Fuck they don't even know where to start! 

Not to mention that like 90% of them will need to use wine if they work fromt heir computer and rely on a rpogram not avaible for linux. That's a fun day for them. Here's wineHQ's page for Ubuntu

https://wiki.winehq.org/Ubuntu
First line

Quote

If you have previously installed a Wine package from another repository, please remove it and any packages that depend on it (e.g., wine-mono, wine-gecko, winetricks) before attempting to install the WineHQ packages, as they may cause dependency conflicts.
 

First fucking line you've lost them. They don't know how to check for any of this, or what this even means. 

Quote

If your system is 64 bit, enable 32 bit architecture (if you haven't already):

sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386 

They don't know if their system is 64 bit. Fuck on windows you just try 32 bit, it tells you its wrong, then you download 64. 
The rest of it 

Quote

Add the repository:

wget -nc https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/Release.key
sudo apt-key add Release.key
sudo apt-add-repository https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/

 On Linux Mint 17.x, the last line should be the following:

sudo apt-add-repository 'deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ trusty main'

 On Linux Mint 18.x, the last line should be the following:

sudo apt-add-repository 'deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ xenial main'

 On Linux Mint 19.x, the last line should be the following:

sudo apt-add-repository 'deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ bionic main'

Update packages:

sudo apt-get update

Then install one of the following packages:

Stable branch	sudo apt-get install --install-recommends winehq-stable
Development branch	sudo apt-get install --install-recommends winehq-devel
Staging branch	sudo apt-get install --install-recommends winehq-staging

If apt-get complains about missing dependencies, install them, then repeat the last two steps (update and install).

Are you fucking kidding me? 
On windows, and equivalent program would be 
"...click on it. "

I dare you to put someone that relies on their pc for a job on Ubuntu and tell them "google it" for installing or configuring things they need. I've actually seen and heard that you'll have an easier time teaching people linux that really haven't used computers (aside from smartphones) since the dos days, no joke. They had to read and have the patience the first time, they can do it again.  
It's simply not ready. We're making all these great advancements in terms of compatibility and funciton, but we've yet to tie it up into this nice package that's idiot proof. 
It'll happen, believe me Microsoft is driving the need for this faster than ever. 

[jagdtigger]

11 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

-snip-

You really think a normie would need anything from a non-official repo that isnt a one .deb file download (skype, steam)? Because i dont. In my experience thy need a browser, some form of office, e-mail client, video player, skype. From this list you only need to install through software center: VLC, Thunderbird. Outside sw center: skype directly from MS in the form of a deb file. No terminal involved.

 

As for fonts i use(d) linux on many machines (including some vm's) abut not even once noticed any issues.

 

As for drivers there is a gui tool to take care of proprietary driver installation. The rest is built in.

[Syntaxvgm]

14 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

You really think a normie would need anything from a non-official repo that isnt a one .deb file download (skype, steam)? Because i dont. In my experience thy need a browser, some form of office, e-mail client, video player, skype. From this list you only need to install through software center: VLC, Thunderbird. Outside sw center: skype directly from MS in the form of a deb file. No terminal involved.

 

As for fonts i use(d) linux on many machines (including some vm's) abut not even once noticed any issues.

 

As for drivers there is a gui tool to take care of proprietary driver installation. The rest is built in.

I do. You'd be surprised how far you can get in windows with minimal knowledge. 
The problem isn't just the experience, it's also that lack of entry level help. It's kind of a paradox. People wont move to linux until it's easier to learn, and it wont be easier to learn until more people want to move. 

BTW I know of front end dev that does a bit of backend work that can use everything he needs in windows but there's no way in fuck he can even fix basic hardware problem, or windows when it goes wrong. Doesn't know what sysinternals tools are, how to find and install drivers, etc. You'd think that people would learn the devices they work on, but they don't. I have years of experience with helping people do shit and it fails to surprise me how someone can use something so long for so much and know so little. Same type of people that can change their own oil and do basic car work because they felt they should know the basics. I feel like even when its "there" or closer, the biggest hump will be getting people to a new platform, even if its indeed simpler. 

[Master Delta Chief]

5 hours ago, Arika S said:

Doesn't matter what distro you use when there are many programs and games that are not on Linux. You're also assuming that even casual users will be able to switch when so much of Linux relies on terminal. 

Only reason I use Windows still at the moment is simply because of the compatibility, Visual Studio (because I have to do C#) and the available games. Good thing Valve is indeed making work for it, but it's still a long run. If I had to use Linux as a daily driver, it'd just be because I want to have a different interface etc...I wish there was an proper alternative for Visual Studio.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

None of my important machines run Linux from 6 years of experience.

Hey, still waiting on an answer to this post:

On 10/6/2018 at 2:53 PM, LAwLz said:

1) You have not given a single reason for why, as you said, Kali is more locked down than Windows. Even if you were right that Kali isn't open source, that still doesn't mean it is more locked down than Windows. 

 

 

2) It seems to me like you don't know much about how GNU/Linux works. Ubuntu is Debian derived as well. What that means is that they take Debian, make some tweaks like which kernel modules are included, which software comes pre-installed, which repos the packet manager points at and so on. Kali is open source. The OS is. What isn't open source are some of the tools which Kali includes. 

It is entirely possible to install Kali and remove every single closed source thing if so desired. It is also entirely possible to change every single part of Kali to the point where it becomes Ubuntu, down to the last byte. 

 

So please tell me what limitations Kali has which makes you say it is more "locked down" than Windows. 

I also want to know why you put closed source in quotation marks, or how I am wrong when I say you can turn Kali into a replica of Ubuntu by changing essentially every single thing about Kali.

 

Unlike Windows, Linux is very modular, and all the changes the Kali developers have made to Debian when the made Kali can be reversed by the user. In fact, you can change any Linux distro into any other one if you so desire. You just need to do some (or lots) of tweaking. But since GNU/Linux isn't locked down like Windows, it is entirely possible to do. 

For someone who claims to have 6 years of experience with GNU/Linux, you sure seem to know very little about it (judging from this and other posts of yours).

From what I can tell it seems like you think you've discovered some dark secret that Kali contains some closed source programs, and now go around telling everyone that Kali is somehow locked down and you won't even give a definition of what "locked down" means.

To me, locked down means that you are forced into using something a certain way. For example only being allowed to install apps through an app store is a type of lock down to me. Only being able to use a single file system is locked down too, because maybe I want to use some other file system for some reason.

 

 

 

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, Syntaxvgm said:

-snip-

I know you're right, but just need to point out one thing.

 

These same people who can do something with Windows, but really don't know what they are doing. Can't use Linux at all and complain how "unwelcoming" it is and made by nerds, but at the same time they go and buy Macs with even more different OS which even forces them to relearn almost everything and it's so "easy for them". Like Linux at least is in the middle having quite a lot same keyboard shortcuts and other usabilities as Windows while MacOS is like "F U, we make everything different because reasons".

 

I have come to see that it's not really that people are too stupid to use Linux, it's just that people are too stupid to see through their mental image. Linux has been citated to be the OS for nerds and to be extremely hard to use for years while Apple and Microsoft have been on competition who can market their OS as the easiest to use and this is what makes Linux "hard to use". Probably 9/10 people who stop using Windows and try MacOS and Linux will say MacOS is easier which is kind of a paradox, because different keyboard layout (in some cases), not so intuitive "right-click", different keyboard shortcuts (crtl-c/-v: cmd-c/-v) (problem for those who go with muscle memory), way different GUI (on Linux depends what you install) and generally the whole usability and user experience is 100% different (like the red X in the corner doesn't really close the program and so on, probably everybody knows what I mean) while Linux is around in the middle having similarities with both extremes while having quite little own. The power of suggestion is so strong...

[LAwLz]

On 10/6/2018 at 7:36 PM, GoodBytes said:

Start > Settings > Update & Security > Windows  Updates > Advanced options.

The option is there.

On 10/6/2018 at 7:44 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

Apparently that's only an option on Pro or higher, not Home.

And that is not what people want.

That just postpones updates. Microsoft still gives you the middle finger if you want to turn updates off. Microsoft wants to control the schedule for when your PC gets updated, regardless of what you want. Sorry Microsoft, but you don't know better than me when it comes to how I want to use my computer, and you really should have no business controlling my computer. I bought it, I own it, and I want to use it however I want.

 

 

7 hours ago, Arika S said:

Doesn't matter what distro you use when there are many programs and games that are not on Linux. You're also assuming that even casual users will be able to switch when so much of Linux relies on terminal.  

For casual use, you do not need to use the terminal.

I don't get why this myth is still being repeated, and it seems like it's repeated mostly by Windows users who barely knows anything about GNU/Linux.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

wonder how much of this is true

https://imgur.com/nanUSK6

I've talked to a few supposed Microsoft developers, and their stories seem to mirror those stories pretty well. I wouldn't be surprised if those stories are true.

 

 

16 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

It looks as though the issue was reported to Microsoft by many people months ago, but Microsoft just ignored it.

 

-snip tweets-

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, the feedback hub is useless. I actually used it a lot while Windows 10 was still in development. I submitted maybe 15-20 different things I wanted changed, issues and so on. Some of them even got quite a lot of traction (well, if you call 100-200 votes a lot, but I do) and I voted on lots of other suggestions. Barely any of them got implemented at all, a few of them were done half-assed (like when people asked for transparency in the start menu and title bar, and they only added it to one and then locked all other threads asking for it), but most seemed to have gotten ignored.

 

You might as well send your complaints or suggestions to a document shredder.

 

 

4 hours ago, TetraSky said:

Just found out that the "Photo" app, since this latest update, is gone. My Windows no longer has a dedicated picture viewing application... so I have to use paint to view pictures... great. 

Are you on LTSB? That version don't have the photos app. If you aren't, you can try and redownload it from the store.

By the way, isn't it sad that a single thing such as a photo viewer from Microsoft themselves has to be labeled "Offers in-app purchases"? Apparently Microsoft can't resist the urge to monetize even basic functionality like viewing images in their OS anymore.

 

4 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Not a single one of those is even a quarter way decent alternative to Windows for most people.

3 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

"How do you do [x] in [insert distro]?"
"Simple, just open terminal and type-"
STOP

you've lost nearly everyone. It's an alternative for you and me, not general users. There's been a lot of progress in this front, but I maintain that Linux in general is only an alternative for people like you and me, not..."normies".
As much as I think the Ubuntu software center is shit, at least they're trying. We need "Normie Linux"  

Most people basically only need a browser, and for that GNU/Linux is more than a decent alternative to Windows, and no you do not need to even touch the terminal in Ubuntu to do that.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

Linux has come a long way in recent years, but it's not ready for most everyday users.  It feels like skating on thin ice.  Things are great until you have to go beyond the surface, then you're in over your head.

Same goes for Windows really. I still believe that a lot of things in GNU/Linux are fundamentally easier to do than on Windows, but because people have gotten used to doing things the Windows way they believe they are simpler.

 

 

I think there is a weird mentality on this forum where a lot of times when things go wrong on Windows, it is the users' fault. But when something goes wrong on GNU/Linux it is the OS's fault.

 

 

3 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

On windows, you download an exe, you click on it. Maybe run as admin.  

On say Ubuntu, if it's not in the software center (most crap isn't)  they have to take so many more steps to get it installed, Steps that make sense to us, but on their part requires research, and reading, really learning how to use a computer again from their perspective.  

You're downplaying the difficulties of properly installing something on Windows quite a bit there.

Installing something on Ubuntu which isn't in the software center: A single command which you can either look up with the package manager, or find through Google.

Installing something on Windows requires finding the correct website to download from, making sure it's the right version, possibly installing separate dependencies (not always installed automatically since the Windows installer doesn't have a package manager to check those things) and then making sure you uncheck all the things you don't want in the installer (why do you think so many people have a bunch of toolbars and adware on their computers?).

 

You don't think of all the extra steps in Windows because you are used to that workflow, but if you look at it objectively from the POV of someone who has never touched a computer before, the Ubuntu way seems far easier. The package manager takes care of a lot of things you have to manually do in Windows, such as selecting the correct version and installing dependencies.

And on top of that the update process is so much smoother on GNU/Linux. Once again, the package manager takes care of it. On Windows 10 different programs might all have 10 widely different ways of updating.

[XenosTech]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

-snip-

 

I'll admit for the short periods I've used Linux in my life. It was a better experience than windows (well minus installing apps was always a pain and still is to me) If linux supported all of my games I'd use that every single day because it's so light.

[Sniperfox47]

Not to mention that with Snaps and Flatpacks it's literally a one click to install package that will work on whatever distro you're using. And for all the people saying it's just Ubuntu Software Center, I want to point out that Gnome in general has a Software Center now which acts as a graphical way to install applications.

 

In general on Linux you really don't need to use a terminal for anything in this day and age. I rarely ever use a terminal on Fedora and I'm more poweruser than many people out there.

 

Getting my system up was as simple as running through anaconda (the setup tool) clicking next at each step. Telling it to figure out partitioning automatically (the default). Clicking next a few more times. And then booting up after it installs. Finish by opening Software Center and searching for the Nvidia drivers. Done. If you want chrome go to the download website click download and double click the file. It opens in software center and your click install. If you want Steam either grab freenode by clicking a link on a webpage and hitting install, or grab the Steam Flatpak.

 

 

Is Linux perfect? No. Is it Windows? No. Is it totally free of any learning curve? Nope. But if you're looking at learning to use computers from scratch it's literally no harder than Windows.

 

The biggest issue with Linux is an image one because of how Linux users present Linux. Because users typically do know how to use the terminal they typically use that to explain things to new users. It's faster and more convenient for us, but it's off-putting to someone who hasn't used Linux before. But just because people say "use the terminal for this" doesn't mean that there isn't a GUI way of doing it.

[LAwLz]

Just now, XenosTech said:

I'll admit for the short periods I've used Linux in my life. It was a better experience than windows (well minus installing apps was always a pain and still is to me) If linux supported all of my games I'd use that every single day because it's so light. 

I think the biggest issue that keeps users on for example this forum from changing to GNU/Linux is that they are already familiar with Windows which works well enough for them.

It's one of the main reasons why I think Windows Phone died. People were already used to Android/iOS, didn't want to learn a new operating system and have to hunt down alternative apps. I mean, they would do that if there were some benefits to switching, but those benefits need to be larger than the pain of relearning things. Relearning things is also a very big pain. Whenever you see someone complain about GNU/Linux, it is almost always followed by a comparison to how they would do something on Windows, because that's what they are used to. I am sure people would complain about how difficult and weird Windows was if GNU/Linux was the OS with ~90% market share.

Relearning something is usually more difficult than learning something to begin with, because it is so easy to fall back into old habits. SO when someone tries to switch to GNU/Linux not only do they have to relearn a bunch of things, they also have to unlearn the Windows way of doing things.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

The biggest issue with Linux is an image one because of how Linux users present Linux. Because users typically do know how to use the terminal they typically use that to explain things to new users. It's faster and more convenient for us, but it's off-putting to someone who hasn't used Linux before. But just because people say "use the terminal for this" doesn't mean that there isn't a GUI way of doing it. 

I think this quote is a great response to this post from Syntaxvgm:

3 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Every problem you google has a command line solution. Every tweak is done that way too, hell it's editing a text file we're still using vi or nano or something in all the tutorials to fix it.

But I want to add that I believe the reason why people often recommend the CLI ways of doing things is because it is much more efficient and less risk of someone screwing up.

If someone wants to do X, and there is a CLI and a GUI way of accomplishing it I will often recommend the CLI way. Why?

Because if I explain the CLI way I just have to say "copy and paste this command into the terminal .........".

If I explain it the GUI way I have to explain which program to start, then which menu option to pick, describe how the options window should look like to then explain which buttons to press, and where to type in things. Not to mention that in a version or two, the menus might look different and the guide I wrote might be completely useless.

[Sniperfox47]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

But I want to add that I believe the reason why people often recommend the CLI ways of doing things is because it is much more efficient and less risk of someone screwing up.

If someone wants to do X, and there is a CLI and a GUI way of accomplishing it I will often recommend the CLI way. Why?

Because if I explain the CLI way I just have to say "copy and paste this command into the terminal .........".

If I explain it the GUI way I have to explain which program to start, then which menu option to pick, describe how the options window should look like to then explain which buttons to press, and where to type in things. Not to mention that in a version or two, the menus might look different and the guide I wrote might be completely useless.

I do understand that and it makes sense from a technical standpoint, but I just feel it hurts from a perception standpoint. Ultimately even if the CLI method *is* easier, it's still more intimidating for a user who's not used to seeing it.

 

If you were a new user what would you feel more comfortable with? A screen with buttons and stuff that you can point and click at (or tap on your touchscreen)? Or a black box with a flashing indicator and a bunch of monospace text? In my experience setting up machines for less experienced users, even if it's literally copy/paste the CLI way tends to be more off putting for them.

 

Maybe you've had difference experience though.

[Alex Atkin UK]

The irony in all this is that "used to how Windows works" is exactly why my mum HATES Windows 10.

 

I'm pretty convinced that I could transition her to Kubuntu and she would find it easier to use than Windows 10, because its more like Windows 7 than 10 is.  The only reason I don't is she loves Paintshop Pro and while I know it works in WINE, I wouldn't trust it to be as reliable as in pure Windows.

 

I understand the point of 10 mind you, I still use it on my laptop (because Linux application touchscreen support is practically none existent) and of course for gaming (both a VM and dual-boot).  But the fact that its now harder to tweak network or display settings because they spread everything across multiple sections of various control panels, is insane.

[TetraSky]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Are you on LTSB? That version don't have the photos app. If you aren't, you can try and redownload it from the store.

By the way, isn't it sad that a single thing such as a photo viewer from Microsoft themselves has to be labeled "Offers in-app purchases"? Apparently Microsoft can't resist the urge to monetize even basic functionality like viewing images in their OS anymore.

I don't think so? My edition just says "windows 10 pro". I'm not in the Insider program.
For now I've downloaded it from the store, seems to be working. Really weird that it would just delete itself like that after updating to 1809.
Honestly, the Photo app has been asking me for Internet access for months now, I've always Denied it. A photo application doesn't need internet access.

[SimplyChunk]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

This is something you see so much in the tech enthusiast community: this insistence that everyone is or should be just as tech-savvy as they are, and that you're weaker as a person if you aren't.  There's a resentment for easy-to-understand interfaces that borders on a masochistic fetish.  "Oh, make it harder to use, baby!  Harder!  The less intuitive the better!"

Linux is the 'Dark Souls' of OSes

[Speed Weed]

Windows 10

50% BETA

 

50% Spyware 

[ZacoAttaco]

I installed the update, no issues so far. It's definitely not Windows finest moment.

[Syntaxvgm]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

You're downplaying the difficulties of properly installing something on Windows quite a bit there.

Installing something on Ubuntu which isn't in the software center: A single command which you can either look up with the package manager, or find through Google.

Installing something on Windows requires finding the correct website to download from, making sure it's the right version, possibly installing separate dependencies (not always installed automatically since the Windows installer doesn't have a package manager to check those things) and then making sure you uncheck all the things you don't want in the installer (why do you think so many people have a bunch of toolbars and adware on their computers?).

 

You don't think of all the extra steps in Windows because you are used to that workflow, but if you look at it objectively from the POV of someone who has never touched a computer before, the Ubuntu way seems far easier. The package manager takes care of a lot of things you have to manually do in Windows, such as selecting the correct version and installing dependencies.

And on top of that the update process is so much smoother on GNU/Linux. Once again, the package manager takes care of it. On Windows 10 different programs might all have 10 widely different ways of updating.

there are no dependencies to install in windows anymore for pretty much anything. It's all automatic through windows update. And even before then .Net framework was the only thing I ever had people run into problems with, and you could install the important stuff when deploying. The only time people have trouble with it now is if they used something like winareo tweaker to disable updates, which will not let them install .net, even if they download the offline version. 
I always have the POV of someone who "has never touched it" because supporting these people used to be my job, and I still do it occasionally. "Select the correct version" as I said, if you pick 32 on and application that you need 64 for, windows will tell you that you needed the 64 version and people usually figure it out after that. 

There's literally nothing else to it. Download (probably 64) and run it. People have more trouble finding the right download button than installing anything on windows- you are UPplaying not a word it. I've only seen people run into issues when it doesn't work right after install and not knowing how to troubleshoot aside from reinstalling. 

[asus killer]

Linus was something like 1% of market share, any other market and no one would even care about something with 1% market share. Pointless to be saying Linux is a viable alternative when it exits for ages now and nobody cares

[Delicieuxz]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

wonder how much of this is true

https://imgur.com/nanUSK6

I guess the internal state of Windows is degrading as badly as it appears from the outside.

 

Maybe Windows will eventually become completely unusable, Microsoft management will be overhauled, and then Microsoft will have to pick up from the last non-Nadella build of Windows 7 or 8 and restart development of Windows from there.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, the feedback hub is useless. I actually used it a lot while Windows 10 was still in development. I submitted maybe 15-20 different things I wanted changed, issues and so on. Some of them even got quite a lot of traction (well, if you call 100-200 votes a lot, but I do) and I voted on lots of other suggestions. Barely any of them got implemented at all, a few of them were done half-assed (like when people asked for transparency in the start menu and title bar, and they only added it to one and then locked all other threads asking for it), but most seemed to have gotten ignored.

 

You might as well send your complaints or suggestions to a document shredder.

 

I've submitted one, maybe two issues to the feedback hub, and one was fixed: The one where selecting Canadian English as the language in Windows would result in spell-check spell-checking for US English. That was an issue that had existed in Windows since its inception until post Windows 10.

 

After I made a feedback hub complaint about it, the issue was actually fixed quickly - though, not entirely: Now, Canadian English in Windows counts both Canadian English and US English as correct, which it shouldn't. US English should be marked as wrong spelling.

[SimplyChunk]

Personally, I've been using Microsoft since DOS 6/Windows 3.1 and i don't want to start learning a whole new package again.  I've never used a mac with any real intent either.  Win10 is what it is.  Crying about it on all sides isn't gonna change anything