Buy 4070 Ti Super or wait for 5070?

[Aereldor]

I'm currently using an RX 6850M XT eGPU - Asus XG Mobile. It'll probably hold its value better than a normal GPU, but I'm still looking to upgrade. 

 

I haven't really kept up with the scene - I bought a GTX 960 in 2015, a GTX 1060 laptop in 2016, and my current eGPU solution last year, and can't make as educated a guess as to the performance of future cards the way I used to.

 

The major downside of waiting is having to stick with my 6850M XT (identical to a desktop 6700xt) for another 5 months, missing out on games that I really want a better experience on - Star Wars Outlaws, Ghost of Tsushima, Flight Simulator 2024, Dragon Age 4.. 

 

I have a 4k 120hz display (an OLED tv that I got for $200 because of a pricing error), which is a big part of why I want to upgrade. 

 

What are your thoughts? I was already advised by the great @leadeater to wait, but I'd like to hear your opinions  

[rippy4500]

We don't know pricing or performance yet, but current gen cards will probably go down in price at least so I recommend you wait no matter what card you get.

To be honest you're probably gonna need a faster card though for 4K 120 though, especially if you want to play heavier games. 4070 ti will be fine for 60+ but probably not gonna get 120fps.

[porina]

The biggest problem with waiting for 5070 is we don't know when it will release, for how much, or how it performs. If nvidia follows past patterns it could be at best at the end of this year, or early into next year.

 

Is the display VRR capable? I'm going to make the assumption that as long as lows remain above 60fps it is ok. Targeting higher fps all the time obviously would be more challenging.

 

I used a 3070 for a long time with a 4k TV. The 3070 is on paper a bit faster than the 6850M XT but let's call it close enough for discussion. Certainly some older demanding games that don't implement upscaling will struggle to reach 60fps at higher settings. Fortunately many games do feature upscaling now and it is a great tool to improve framerates.

 

I more recently got a 4070 and that plays games at 4k good enough for me. I still use upscaling but it is easier to hit 60fps baseline with it at higher settings.

 

4070 Ti S is obviously even faster so should do even better. It is getting on for ball park 2x the potential of 6850M XT so you could use higher settings at current performance, or same settings at higher performance (if not CPU limited). Or somewhere in between.

[Aereldor]

12 minutes ago, rippy4500 said:

We don't know pricing or performance yet, but current gen cards will probably go down in price at least so I recommend you wait no matter what card you get.

To be honest you're probably gonna need a faster card though for 4K 120 though, especially if you want to play heavier games. 4070 ti will be fine for 60+ but probably not gonna get 120fps.

I should have clarified, I'm targeting 4k 120fps with like DLSS performance + frame gen at medium/high settings, in no way do I expect a native 4k 120fps ultra experience.

 

How long do you think I'll have to wait though? I'm a massive Star Wars fan and the new game drops on my birthday so I definitely want to have a capable PC by then!

 

[Aereldor]

6 minutes ago, porina said:

we don't know when it will release, for how much, or how it performs. If nvidia follows past patterns it could be at best at the end of this year, or early into next year.

Yeah, I was just hoping for a few more guesses since I haven't kept up with the scene.

 

6 minutes ago, porina said:

Is the display VRR capable? I'm going to make the assumption that as long as lows remain above 60fps it is ok. Targeting higher fps all the time obviously would be more challenging.

Yep! Freesync Premium, I make heavy use of it.

 

7 minutes ago, porina said:

4k TV. The 3070 is on paper a bit faster than the 6850M XT but let's call it close enough for discussion. Certainly some older demanding games that don't implement upscaling will struggle to reach 60fps at higher settings. Fortunately many games do feature upscaling now and it is a great tool to improve framerates.

AMD has a few control panel tricks - you can essentially use FSR 1.0 in games that don't support it now by running the game at fullscreen, setting the resolution lower than your display, and enabling RSR in AMD control panel. However, it doesn't look very good  Better than nothing I guess.

 

8 minutes ago, porina said:

I more recently got a 4070 and that plays games at 4k good enough for me. I still use upscaling but it is easier to hit 60fps

How is that working out for you? Because for me, the best value is a $550 4070 Super, which will allow me to keep the whole PC budget well under $900. Again, I'm trying to get 4k 120fps with like DLSS Performance or Balanced, Medium/high settings, and frame generation. Is that achievable?

 

I really want to wait for the 5070 because, at least optimistically, I'm expecting 4080 level performance for $600, but I'm going to have to wait until December probably and I really don't want to.

 

9 minutes ago, porina said:

4070 Ti S is obviously even faster .......same settings at higher performance (if not CPU limited). 

Currently I've never seen my 6900hs go above 50% utilisation even in the most intense Baldur's Gate 3 scenario with dozens of NPCs, so I think I'll be good, probably owing to the 6400mhz DDR5 too. 

[porina]

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Yep! Freesync Premium, I make heavy use of it.

Great, helps a lot with the experience as I'm sure you already know.

 

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

AMD has a few control panel tricks - you can essentially use FSR 1.0 in games that don't support it now by running the game at fullscreen, setting the resolution lower than your display, and enabling RSR in AMD control panel. However, it doesn't look very good  Better than nothing I guess.

RSR? I view that as a last resort but still nice to have the option should it be required and useful.

 

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

How is that working out for you? Because for me, the best value is a $550 4070 Super, which will allow me to keep the whole PC budget well under $900. Again, I'm trying to get 4k 120fps with like DLSS Performance or Balanced, Medium/high settings, and frame generation. Is that achievable?

The problem with me giving advice is I don't run many recent AAA releases myself. You'll have to rely on other's testing to get a feel for where the performance ends up in games you care about.

 

The main game I played this year was Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth. I had to use upscaling at high settings and was getting typically 70+ fps. When I tried it on 3070 before that, I had to drop to medium. If a game can maintain average fps well above 60fps in the more demanding areas, that's fine for me. Note I prefer better visuals at ok frame rate. I don't tend to play games that benefit from higher fps. I was testing upscalers at quality setting, and was surprised to find XeSS gave the best visuals in that game as it had best temporal stability. little flickering pixels in fine details. DLSS was a bit behind and FSR2/3 did badly.

 

I didn't use framegen in that game outside of a little testing. While it did increase fps a bit it was nowhere near 2x. FSR3 inherits the same image quality problems as FSR2 and I really hope FSR 3.1 will finally resolve that. DLSS3 looked ok but it didn't feel good if that makes sense? I didn't look into it further as I didn't need it to reach my performance goals.

 

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

I really want to wait for the 5070 because, at least optimistically, I'm expecting 4080 level performance for $600, but I'm going to have to wait until December probably and I really don't want to.

Good luck whichever decision you go with. 

 

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Currently I've never seen my 6900hs go above 50% utilisation even in the most intense Baldur's Gate 3 scenario with dozens of NPCs, so I think I'll be good, probably owing to the 6400mhz DDR5 too. 

That's a high end Zen 3(+) CPU so should be fine.

[rippy4500]

2 hours ago, Aereldor said:

I should have clarified, I'm targeting 4k 120fps with like DLSS performance + frame gen at medium/high settings, in no way do I expect a native 4k 120fps ultra experience.

 

How long do you think I'll have to wait though? I'm a massive Star Wars fan and the new game drops on my birthday so I definitely want to have a capable PC by then!

 

Assuming 50 series is announced september you might have to wait a month or two after that cause xx70 cards are usually released a little later as they release flagship xx90 or xx80 cards first. So probably around november at the latest unless you wanna splurge on the 5080 or 5090, and that is also assuming there is no stock issues.

Also, you should look into what AMD is releasing too. Im betting the 50 series midrange cards may not be the best value given nvidias history the last couple generations, but maybe we will get lucky and they'll give us 1080 ti or 3080 level value again.

[Salted Spinach]

Yes, wait for the 5000 series so that you can get a 4K120 GPU for the price of a 4k60 GPU

 

Just like what happened when the 4000 series came out

[Stahlmann]

The answer is always the same: If you can wait, wait. There are always faster cards coming out next gen, and even if you don't want to buy those cards, old gen will get cheaper. Use your current GPU until it no longer performs at the level you want or need, then upgrade. Unless the new generation is only 1-2 months away, I'd say buy the best you can afford right now. Otherwise, you will always be waiting for the next better GPU instead of just buying one now and enjoying the better gaming experience it will bring.

[Dedayog]

No 7900GRE with an OC?

 

Per the other thread you asked.

[Minibotpc]

If the timeline for the 40 series is anything to go by, we probably won't see a 5070 till next year Q1 unless they go back to their old schedule then we might see it in September/October time. It's a long wait if its based on the 40 series timeline. 

[Aereldor]

1 hour ago, Dedayog said:

No 7900GRE with an OC?

 

Per the other thread you asked.

I thought it was an awesome idea but it's pretty far behind in ray traced workloads that I do have an interest in  but honestly still in the back of my mind!

[Aereldor]

2 hours ago, Minibotpc said:

If the timeline for the 40 series is anything to go by, we probably won't see a 5070 till next year Q1 unless they go back to their old schedule then we might see it in September/October time. It's a long wait if its based on the 40 series timeline. 

Yeah that's definitely a long wait. On one hand, I'll have a decidedly worse experience with the games I want to play that will come out before then, but on the other hand I'll have a vastly superior experience with the next few years of games. 

 

The only issue is money. Right now, my eGPU can easily sell for $900 to $1000, which can fund almost an entire high-end 4k gaming PC. It's also new (Asus replaced it on March 15) and I barely used it so I still list it at 'open box', but in 6 months? I'll have used it plenty and it'll have depreciated a great deal in value.

[Aereldor]

4 hours ago, rippy4500 said:

Assuming 50 series is announced september you might have to wait a month or two after that cause xx70 cards are usually released a little later as they release flagship xx90 or xx80 cards first. So probably around november at the latest unless you wanna splurge on the 5080 or 5090, and that is also assuming there is no stock issues.

Also, you should look into what AMD is releasing too. Im betting the 50 series midrange cards may not be the best value given nvidias history the last couple generations, but maybe we will get lucky and they'll give us 1080 ti or 3080 level value again.

If the 5080 is an $800-900 GPU and faster than the 4090 then I'll buy it no questions asked. But November is a long wait. I have to decide if I'm willing to compromise on my experience with all the games releasing in the next 6 months.

[Aereldor]

4 hours ago, Stahlmann said:

The answer is always the same: If you can wait, wait. There are always faster cards coming out next gen, and even if you don't want to buy those cards, old gen will get cheaper. Use your current GPU until it no longer performs at the level you want or need, then upgrade. Unless the new generation is only 1-2 months away, I'd say buy the best you can afford right now. Otherwise, you will always be waiting for the next better GPU instead of just buying one now and enjoying the better gaming experience it will bring.

Yeah, and it's also somewhat rare that I really want to play a game, and all of my most anticipated titles are coming out probably before the 5080 and definitely before the 5070. Star Wars Outlaws, Flight Sim 2024, Ghost of Tsushima, Dragon Age 4... 

[Salted Spinach]

2 hours ago, Aereldor said:

If the 5080 is an $800-900 GPU and faster than the 4090...

You are high af

 

[Darknighterror]

3 hours ago, Aereldor said:

f the 5080 is an $800-900 GPU and faster than the 4090

4080 Launch MSRP was 1199 $ and i cant imagine that this will be the same and surely not lower.

[Minibotpc]

15 hours ago, Darknighterror said:

4080 Launch MSRP was 1199 $ and i cant imagine that this will be the same and surely not lower.

 

Wouldn't be the first time they dropped prices at launch for the same level of card i think, i'm 99% sure they've done it before on much older generation cards.

[Aereldor]

22 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

You are high af

 

 

21 hours ago, Darknighterror said:

4080 Launch MSRP was 1199 $ and i cant imagine that this will be the same and surely not lower.

 

The RTX 3080 was $699, the 3080 12GB was $799, and the 4080 Super was $999. 

[Salted Spinach]

35 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

The RTX 3080 was $699, the 3080 12GB was $799, and the 4080 Super was $999. 

Very good

 

Do you see the trend?

[Aereldor]

1 minute ago, Salted Spinach said:

Very good

 

Do you see the trend?

Do you? 

Maybe you forgot a piece. 

1080 FE - $699 (normal $599)

1080 Ti FE - $699
2080 - $699

2080 Super - $699
3080 - $699

3080 12GB - $799

4080 - $1199 (OUTLIER)

4080 Super - $999

 

 

[Salted Spinach]

7 hours ago, Aereldor said:

Do you? 

Maybe you forgot a piece. 

1080 FE - $699 (normal $599)

1080 Ti FE - $699
2080 - $699

2080 Super - $699
3080 - $699

3080 12GB - $799

4080 - $1199 (OUTLIER)

4080 Super - $999

Yes. The 4080 launch price was outlandish which exhibits Nvidia's clear intent to raise prices as much as they are allowed to get away with.

 

The Super had practically the same performance so it was basically a re-launch at more reasonable price in attempt to shake off the original negative reviews and capture sales from people who refused to pay $1200

 

Nevertheless, it ended up being $100 more than the previous gen

 

If the 5080 has the same incremental performance, expect it to be at least $1100. They are not going to be generous

 

And if 5080 performs as well as the 4090, they are definitely not pricing it any lower that what the 4090 is currently selling at

[Aereldor]

22 hours ago, Salted Spinach said:

And if 5080 performs as well as the 4090, they are definitely not pricing it any lower that what the 4090 is currently selling at

You think they're going to price the 5080 at $1599?

 

That's an INSANE take. Maybe the wildest take I've read this year. 

[Salted Spinach]

3 hours ago, Aereldor said:

You think they're going to price the 5080 at $1599?

 

That's an INSANE take. Maybe the wildest take I've read this year. 

Dont put words into my mouth

You can read my take again

On 5/2/2024 at 9:50 AM, Salted Spinach said:

...

If the 5080 has the same incremental performance, expect it to be at least $1100. They are not going to be generous

 

And if 5080 performs as well as the 4090, they are definitely not pricing it any lower that what the 4090 is currently selling at

 

[Aereldor]

50 minutes ago, Salted Spinach said:

Dont put words into my mouth

You can read my take again

 

On 5/1/2024 at 9:50 PM, Salted Spinach said:

And if 5080 performs as well as the 4090, they are definitely not pricing it any lower that what the 4090 is currently selling at

 

The 4090 is 'currently' selling above its $1599 MSRP. Right now a 4090 is usually above $1700. 

 

So if that's the lowest they're going... Yeah still a very bad take.