[UPDATE] Windows 10 October Update Potentially Deleting Files and a Warning for Intel Users

[asus killer]

1 minute ago, TheCMan said:

Version 1809 is an insider (beta) version of Windows. So you don't have to worry if you're not on the insider program. If you in the insider program, well this is what we get for being the guinea pig. 

I dont thinks this is true, it was released for everyone. Now its canceled

[asus killer]

1 hour ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Yes facts are facts, and it runs nearly everything important by a very large margin, so no one cares is not accurate. 

If you want to read it literally you are right and i will change it to "almost no one cares". 

[Syntaxvgm]

3 minutes ago, asus killer said:

If you want to read it literally you are right and i will change it to "almost no one cares". 

well it's like saying no one cares about farming. Sure, most people dont even think about it, a very small portion of our population are farmers, and it's just in a professional sense most of the time typically people dont farm for fun, but it's an essential part of all of our lives, and advancements there in the next 20 or so years will redefine how we eat. 

At least thats how I see it. 

[LAwLz]

14 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

there are no dependencies to install in windows anymore for pretty much anything. It's all automatic through windows update. And even before then .Net framework was the only thing I ever had people run into problems with, and you could install the important stuff when deploying. The only time people have trouble with it now is if they used something like winareo tweaker to disable updates, which will not let them install .net, even if they download the offline version. 

.net used to be a pretty big issue, and just saying that you helped people with it when the computers were first set up isn't really an argument for why Windows is easy since you clearly felt the need to proactively install things to avoid future problems the users themselves might not have been able to fix.

The same can be said for GNU/Linux.

But other than .net, I have also seem people have issues with Java dependencies, Python dependencies (and good luck instructing someone like my mom how to add the PATH variable for Python in Windows) and there also used to be a bunch of stuff like Silverlight.

 

Ever configured something slightly more advanced than let's say a game on Windows? It quickly starts becoming a mess, where you need to download 3 separate programs, make sure it's the correct versions for what the other programs expect and so on.

For example if you want to install Yarn on Windows you need Node.js if you want to use the msi installer. However, you need to make sure that if you want to compile let's say VSCode then you can't just download any install any node.js release. You need to make sure it is above version 8.9.1 but below version 9.0.0, otherwise you will run into issues. You also need Python 2.7, not 3. If you already have Python 3 installed then you will need to download and install that separately, as well as change the PATH variable.

 

A package manager usually takes care of all these things for you. That's the reason why they exist, and even Microsoft is trying to move towards this structure with the store and Chocolatey.

 

 

 

Anyway, I don't really see how people think installing something on GNU/Linux is more difficult than on Windows.

Check the software center - If it's there it's arguably easier than installing it on Windows.

If it isn't in the software center, download a flatpak installer or run a CLI command. Please note that I said OR, so don't give me some "aha! you mentioned CLI so therefore it is difficult!". But hell, I would argue that navigating to a download website, knowing what to download, and then going through the installer is more difficult than typing like 4 words in a command line. You might not think it is, but I believe it would be easier to learn who had 0 previous computer experience. Windows is only easy because people are constantly exposed to it and have been taught how it functions. It's not easy because the process is in someway intuitive (it isn't).

 

 

 

14 hours ago, asus killer said:

Linus was something like 1% of market share, any other market and no one would even care about something with 1% market share. Pointless to be saying Linux is a viable alternative when it exits for ages now and nobody cares

It has 1% desktop/laptop market share (actually closer to 2%, or 2.5% if you count ChromeOS which is based on Gentoo). Very important to remember that "desktop/laptop" part, because when it comes to smartphones, embedded devices, servers, or basically anything else then the roles are basically reversed.

The desktop/laptop market is essentially the only place where GNU/Linux isn't the standard, and if you lump mobile and desktop/laptops into the pool then GNU/Linux is much more widely used by the average Joe than Windows is.

 

 

14 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The issue with "Linux has over 75% of web servers" thing is that those are heavily modified variants made exclusively for internal use for and by a few large companies, where using other operating systems run into two issues: modification and cost. 

 

Outside of companies like Amazon, Google, and web hosts running thousands of servers, Linux isn't cared about either. They like it because it's free and easy to modify.

The amount of ignorance you have displayed in this thread is astonishing. Are you trolling?

By the way, you still haven't answered my questions.

 

No, companies do not use GNU/Linux because it's "free". The licensing cost is next to nothing compared to the cost of consultants or other people doing the configuration and upkeep.

A Windows Server license is something like 900 dollars without any rebates or subsidies. That's less than hiring me a single day. One year standard support for RHEL costs 800 dollars. So it's a 100 dollar difference between Windows Server and RHEL. Do you really think that companies will cheap out and try to save 100 dollars on the license? Do you have any idea how much things like training and certification costs? The standard RHEL certification program costs 7000 dollars per person.

 

GNU/Linux being free is not even on the list of reasons why it is chosen. Flexibility and software availability are the two main reasons.

[asus killer]

8 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

well it's like saying no one cares about farming. Sure, most people dont even think about it, a very small portion of our population are farmers, and it's just in a professional sense most of the time typically people dont farm for fun, but it's an essential part of all of our lives, and advancements there in the next 20 or so years will redefine how we eat. 

At least thats how I see it. 

Lets get one thing straight i was commenting on the context of this topic as i already tried to explain. As a alternative to windows 10. Apparently that has was not clear for you or others who quoted me. I hope it is now.

 

Are servers or smartphones really relevant to the problem in the OP's post. I get you may have started a side discussion but i didn't went there as i dont see the relevance

[Guest]

Nothing like an OS war.

[JoeCoke]

People are actually arguing about WIndows VS. Linux? It's easy. Linux is actually better, it's more stable, it's more secure, it's faster in a lot of cases, but Windows has more support, which artificially makes Windows better. And Windows is easier overall to operate.

 

Now I do agree that dotNetFx and vcredist packages can be a pain to install sometimes because they just refuse to sometimes, and some people wouldn't even know you need them. But if you install all Windows updates the problem goes away, and most programs that need them tell you, and most will even download them and start the installers for you. I know, I've literally installed and set up 7/8.1 well over a hundred times.

 

So as of now, Windows is far more viable than Linux. And believe me, try installing Linux with Firefox and Open Office on a tech illiterate's computer. On paper it sounds idiot proof, but any problem they have down the road (even if the problem would have occurred on Windows) they will blame it on "the linux" and will complain. It'll be a pain, just don't do it. Been down that road twice.

 

Spoiler

By the way, unrelated, but to anyone who has to set up Windows often, I've found a way of installing .net and vcredist that always works and won't spit out retarded errors, and it's a lot faster than downloading EVERY update. This one's for Windows 7:

 

1. Install SP1.

2. Check for updates and install SP1 AGAIN, for some reason Windows makes you do dumb shit like that.

3. Install update "KB2670838", you can download a stand alone installer if Windows update is being stupid.

4. Install this security certificate: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj95JKCiffdAhXM61MKHQfsA7EQFjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkID%3D747875%26clcid%3D0x409&usg=AOvVaw28NcafHVcDM1BMwjogpcbY

5. You're ready to install them now. This is unnecessary, but I do it anyway, I work my way up to .net 4.6.2, I start at 3.5.

 

6. Keep a flash drive or folder on a network storage device with all this stuff ready to go. It'll make your life easier in the future.

 

This kind of proves the point that Windows can be harder than Linux when it comes to installing programs, but really .net and vcredist will be the only problems you will run into.

 

[Syntaxvgm]

34 minutes ago, asus killer said:

Lets get one thing straight i was commenting on the context of this topic as i already tried to explain. As a alternative to windows 10. Apparently that has was not clear for you or others who quoted me. I hope it is now.

 

Are servers or smartphones really relevant to the problem in the OP's post. I get you may have started a side discussion but i didn't went there as i dont see the relevance

 

31 minutes ago, King Poet said:

Nothing like an OS war.

 

Just now, 2Buck said:

People are actually arguing about WIndows VS. Linux? It's easy. Linux is actually better, it's more stable, it's more secure, it's faster in a lot of cases, but Windows has more support, which artificially makes Windows better. And Windows is easier overall to operate.

 

Now I do agree that dotNetFx and vcredist packages can be a pain to install sometimes because they just refuse to sometimes, and some people wouldn't even know you need them. But if you install all Windows updates the problem goes away, and most programs that need them tell you, and most will even download them and start the installers for you. I know, I've literally installed and set up 7/8.1 well over a hundred times.

 

So as of now, Windows is far more viable than Linux. And believe me, try installing Linux with Firefox and Open Office on a tech illiterate's computer. On paper it sounds idiot proof, but any problem they have down the road (even if the problem would have occurred on Windows) they will blame it on "the linux" and will complain. It'll be a pain, just don't do it. Been down that road twice.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

By the way, unrelated, but to anyone who has to set up Windows often, I've found a way of installing .net and vcredist that always works and won't spit out retarded errors, and it's a lot faster than downloading EVERY update. This one's for Windows 7:

 

1. Install SP1.

2. Check for updates and install SP1 AGAIN, for some reason Windows makes you do dumb shit like that.

3. Install update "KB2670838", you can download a stand alone installer if Windows update is being stupid.

4. Install this security certificate: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj95JKCiffdAhXM61MKHQfsA7EQFjAAegQIChAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkID%3D747875%26clcid%3D0x409&usg=AOvVaw28NcafHVcDM1BMwjogpcbY

5. You're ready to install them now. This is unnecessary, but I do it anyway, I work my way up to .net 462, I start at 35.

 

6. Keep a flash drive or folder on a network storage device with all this stuff ready to go. It'll make your life easier in the future.

 

This kind of proves the point that Windows can be harder than Linux when it comes to installing programs, but really .net and vcredist will be the only problems you will run into.

 

This is the part where I switch to the freeBSD side of the argument to keep things interesting and heated.  

[WallyDog2149]

This boils down to one thing.  Human error.

 

I have successfully installed Window 10 1809 on my PC without losing any personal data or documents.  I used a burn DVD-R as my installation media.  This literally has nothing to do with using OneDrive on an Intel PC, and everything to do with PIBKAC (Problem is Between Keyboard and Chair).

 

Linus and company, I invite you to get a legit ISO of the Windows 10 1809 update burnt to a DVD-R and use it as the installation media.  Just make sure that it is set to Keep all your personal files and apps, and to opt out of Windows automatically finding updates and upgrades online for system files and drivers, before you start the installation.

 

 

 

 

[Lurick]

13 minutes ago, WallyDog2149 said:

This boils down to one thing.  Human error.

 

I have successfully installed Window 10 1809 on my PC without losing any personal data or documents.  I used a burn DVD-R as my installation media.  This literally has nothing to do with using OneDrive on an Intel PC, and everything to do with PIBKAC (Problem is Between Keyboard and Chair).

 

Linus and company, I invite you to get a legit ISO of the Windows 10 1809 update burnt to a DVD-R and use it as the installation media.  Just make sure that it is set to Keep all your personal files and apps, and to opt out of Windows automatically finding updates and upgrades online for system files and drivers, before you start the installation.

You do realize this is a hit or miss issue right?

I used the same media to install it on two computers, one lost data, the other did not.

Both were 100% up to date prior to install.

[ZacoAttaco]

23 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

"no one cares" is a hell of a way of putting it when the net is built on it.

Can't argue with that, if we look an enterprise, server side of things, Unix-Like operating systems like FreeBSD and OpenBSD are the most secure and are widely used. A lot of stuff behind the scenes are either running some sort of Linux kernel or have been developed from some sort of Linux kernel. Even Mac OS itself is derived from Unix.

 

So just because most desktops use a Windows platform, it should not discount the effect Unix/Linux has had on the industry (although I'm not sure this was the point of debate) and it seems as time goes on, Linux market share for desktop just keeps steadily rising.

[mynameisjuan]

9 hours ago, Lurick said:

You do realize this is a hit or miss issue right?

I used the same media to install it on two computers, one lost data, the other did not.

Both were 100% up to date prior to install.

Was there anything different software wise between them? Programs, number of profiles, OSTs, domains? I am just curious if this is a bug or a conflict. 

[Lurick]

9 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Was there anything different software wise between them? Programs, number of profiles, OSTs, domains? I am just curious if this is a bug or a conflict. 

Most stuff is different but they are both running Windows 10 Pro and went from 1803 with all updates to 1809 from the same install media. Neither are joined to a domain but they have different programs since one is a work laptop and the other is my personal desktop.

[captain_to_fire]

If a ransomware encrypts your files or tamper the master boot record and asks for Bitcoin payments for the decryption key, Windows 10 deletes your files and makes it unavailable too. 

 

Only that with ransomware, paying the malware authors might give a slim chance of recovering one’s files whereas with Windows 10, they don’t ask for payment to recover deleted files. 

[GoodBytes]

Update:

Microsoft says that they have identified the issue, fixed it, and performed internal testing.

And update to those on the Insider program is being released first and says that they will monitor if they are further reports about data loss.

 

John Cable, director of program management for Windows Servicing and Delivery, says:

Quote

We have fully investigated all reports of data loss, identified and fixed all known issues in the update, and conducted internal validation.

 

There is 2 bugs identified and fixed. One for those already on 1809 and one that occurs during upgrade process.

• For those on 1809, a patch is being released. The bug relates to the use of the GPO "Delete user profiles older than a specified number of day." being executed when it should not. Microsoft security builtin says:

  Quote

  Addresses an issue affecting group policy expiration where an incorrect timing calculation may prematurely remove profiles on devices subject to the "Delete user profiles older than a specified number of day.”

  Source: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464330/windows-10-update-kb4464330
   
• Insiders are getting an update to solve the other bug which related to data loss issue, which related to the known folder redirection feature introduced. The Verge explains:

  Quote

  It appears the bug that caused file deletion was related to Windows 10 users who had enabled Known Folder Redirection to redirect folders like desktop, documents, pictures, and screenshots from the default location. Microsoft introduced code in its latest update to delete the empty and duplicate known folders, but it appears they weren’t always empty. Microsoft has developed fixes to address a variety of problems related to these folder moves, and these fixes are now being tested with Windows Insiders.

 

Cable adds:

Quote

We will carefully study the results, feedback, and diagnostic data from our Insiders before taking additional steps towards re-releasing more broadly.

We are committed to learning from this experience and improving our processes and notification systems to help ensure our customers have a positive experience with our update process.

 

In addition, Microsoft is making changes to the Feedback Hub app, and one of the changes is adding a severity level meter that users can pick to help Microsoft catch such bugs

 

Source: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/9/17957506/microsoft-windows-10-october-2018-update-data-deletion-fix

 

Relating the the Feeback hub change: let's just hope people won't say "OMG end of the world! The separation line on this tool bar is 1px too long! STOP EVERYTHING! MAX severity!!! DEFCON 1 Alert! Needs to be fixed!", which I think will happen and start clouding everything and come back to square one, but we will see.

[AdmiralMeowmix]

I'm not in the insider program and it wants me to update but I'm scared too

[GoodBytes]

51 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

I'm not in the insider program and it wants me to update but I'm scared too

1809 is still not re-released.

You mot likely have a cumulative update.

[rcmaehl]

@Dan Castellaneta

 

Another Update:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-1809-bungle-we-wont-miss-early-problem-reports-again-says-microsoft/

[Unhelpful]

DISREGARD

[jagdtigger]

14 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

and performed internal testing. 

So they pushed them out to unsuspecting insiders....

[AdmiralMeowmix]

8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

1809 is still not re-released.

You mot likely have a cumulative update.

It said 1809 October update

[ZacoAttaco]

9 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

So they pushed them out to unsuspecting insiders....

The Insiders are the real heroes.

[jagdtigger]

7 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

The Insiders are the real heroes idiots.

FIFY. They(and the none insiders too) are pay to become a beta tester and work for free.......

[mr moose]

Arguing of whether Linux or windows is better is like arguing over which car is better,  a diesel or an petrol? a big ute or a small truck? a sports sedan or a coupe.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 1:49 AM, 2Buck said:

which artificially makes Windows better.

 

 

How do you make an artificial thing artificially better than another artificial thing?  They are both man made systems, one is more widely accepted and understood while the other isn't.  

 

 

 

[asus killer]

whats the point in having a feedback colection tool if you pay no attention to the feedback, even more in a beta version that people are testing for them. I knew MS was a disaster, this is just silly.

 

19 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

@Dan Castellaneta

 

Another Update:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-1809-bungle-we-wont-miss-early-problem-reports-again-says-microsoft/