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Dozen employees (so far) at Google quit in protest as company continues with "Project Maven" military project.

Remember to not get political, this topic is not about the American Military, or any political parties. It is about Google and the employees protesting/resigning, and the implications of the use of AI for this purpose.

 

Original Source: https://gizmodo.com/google-employees-resign-in-protest-against-pentagon-con-1825729300

First seen by me: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/05/google-employees-resign-in-protest-of-googlepentagon-drone-program/

 

Pre-article summary:

Google and the American Military are working on "Project Maven", a military project to apply Google's image artificial intelligence know-how to drones and drone footage to help the military identify persons and/or places of interest, presumably to later capture or strike. (wasn't sure how to word this without being graphic). A previous letter of protest garnered over 3100 signatures (Ars reports up to 4000 at time of writing). Given how large Google is as a company this is probably a drop in the ocean, but appears to be gaining traction in media with stories from Gizmodo, Ars Technica, and The New York Times as well.

 

A previous Ars article on the letter and issue pointed out how the letter invoked Google's "Don't Be Evil" motto. The Military claims that footage identified by "Project Maven" will not be solely acted upon but further examined. I do remember hearing (Can't remember where) that the American military is having a high turnover for drone operators due to what they're having to see and do in the role. So it might be possible that it may be looking at this project to ease staffing issues.

 

Article summary:

Google is still forging ahead, even after the letter of protest, so now employees have begun to quit. While "about a dozen" seems like an even smaller drop in the ocean to Google's 70,000 employees, it is quite a drastic action to take and I don't know if those employees will be able to get a reference from Google. Here are a few quotes from resigning employees from the article:

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“At some point, I realized I could not in good faith recommend anyone join Google, knowing what I knew. I realized if I can’t recommend people join here, then why am I still here?”

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“Actions speak louder than words, and that’s a standard I hold myself to as well, I wasn’t happy just voicing my concerns internally. The strongest possible statement I could take against this was to leave.”

 

The ICRAC (International Committee for Robot Arms Control) (about) has also released an open letter supporting the previous letter from google employees on the matter: https://www.icrac.net/open-letter-in-support-of-google-employees-and-tech-workers/

Quote

As scholars, academics, and researchers who study, teach about, and develop information technology, we write in solidarity with the 3100+ Google employees, joined by other technology workers, who oppose Google’s participation in Project Maven. We wholeheartedly support their demand that Google terminate its contract with the DoD, and that Google and its parent company Alphabet commit not to develop military technologies and not to use the personal data that they collect for military purposes. The extent to which military funding has been a driver of research and development in computing historically should not determine the field’s path going forward.

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While the reports on Project Maven currently emphasize the role of human analysts, these technologies are poised to become a basis for automated target recognition and autonomous weapon systems. As military commanders come to see the object recognition algorithms as reliable, it will be tempting to attenuate or even remove human review and oversight for these systems. According to Defense One, the DoD already plans to install image analysis technologies on-board the drones themselves, including armed drones. We are then just a short step away from authorizing autonomous drones to kill automatically, without human supervision or meaningful human control. If ethical action on the part of tech companies requires consideration of who might benefit from a technology and who might be harmed, then we can say with certainty that no topic deserves more sober reflection – no technology has higher stakes – than algorithms meant to target and kill at a distance and without public accountability.

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We are at a critical moment. The Cambridge Analytica scandal demonstrates growing public concern over allowing the tech industries to wield so much power. This has shone only one spotlight on the increasingly high stakes of information technology infrastructures, and the inadequacy of current national and international governance frameworks to safeguard public trust. Nowhere is this more true than in the case of systems engaged in adjudicating who lives and who dies.

I recommend you read the whole letter but it has some powerful language and wise words of caution. The ICRAC claims to solely advocate against the use of robotics/AI in target selection and use of lethal force, and not against robotics in general.

 

 

Personal Thoughts:

Not sure what to add without getting political. I'm personally interested in AI and Robotics but agree that it's a field that should not be used lethally in war. Saving people in the battlefield is different from helping with lethal tasks, and in the rare cases the two are mutual is a task and decision still best left to humans. I've never heard of the ICRAC till today and am sceptical about them but the letter was well written.


I do raise the question of our reliance on Google. For some this may be minimal, for others, extensive. I myself use google calendar due to my memory problems to remind me of appointments etc since it syncs to my tablet and phone. I rely on Gmail since in the past my website's mail server has been flaky so have ported most of my accounts over to it. I use chrome and regularly rely on the recent tabs/history to watch stuff on my tablet/phone in bed/hospital/doctors that I was previously watching on my PC or TV when I'm ill. So for me, it's be difficult to stop using Google in protest of this decision, but it's a thought I am considering and may look into alternatives that can do the same tasks. I'd like to hear what people think about protesting Google as users, and how that might be possible.

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On the one hand this technology is likely going to abused beyond the scope of identifying targets seen by an attack drone thus being a major potential issue down the line. But if these people think that this tech used in the context of project maven would lead to more drone strikes on identified targets well they'd be wrong as the military usually launches anyway if targets appear to be "military aged men"

 

I personally have no moral issue on working with weapons or on military projects, but given the political leanings of google employees I'm not surprised some do granted the fact they just realize google isn't some hippy liberal arts college and rather a immoral company makes me question their vigilance prior to this.

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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Not saying that I agree with this but someone is eventually going to do this and quite frankly I feel pretty comfortable with it being google because they have a reputation to uphold and people are likely going to be keeping a very close eye on this project.

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6 minutes ago, Kenji the Uke said:

Oh.. This isnt gonna be good 3: Good for them though, for standing up for what they think is right.

Yeah, I spent a good 2 hours writing/researching the OP but am still worried about this topic here. I also agree with supporting those that are able to leave for doing so, I also support those that disagree but can't leave for various reasons :/ I have a feeling though that given how few are leaving, they might be dismissed as some radical minority.

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Going to try to keep this as apolitical as possible...  I personally feel that it is well within these employees rights to resign if they feel they cannot support the company that they are working for.  This does not mean that Google or any company should not conduct this work though.  As for Project Maven, can it be used in a bad way? I would say that it could, but it could also be used in a positive manner such that the military may be able to avoid civilian casualties or sending troops into areas where there is a higher risk of casualties.  One of the biggest problems that the military is facing with technical advances is data overload and not being able to quickly sort and prioritize data that needs to be analyzed and disseminated to the field.  

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1 minute ago, cl4nk said:

Not saying that I agree with this but someone is eventually going to do this and quite frankly I feel pretty comfortable with it being google because they have a reputation to uphold and people are likely going to be keeping a very close eye on this project.

its not google what I would be scared of, its DOD/Military's use for this kind of stuff, considering its not the first time someone abused a device designed for "peaceful" uses in to a weapon.

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Like all companies, these employees will be replaced and the program, as long as it is funded, will keep moving forward. There are smart people that will be willing to join this cause and as long as the military is willing to pay big money, there will be a company that will work on this project whether it is Google or some other. 

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ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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In a lethal military operation, some body need to hold accountability. leave other ppl's life to the decision made by a program is anti-humanity imo. i think AI's adaptation need much much more regulation. we dont want to cause a chaos and then try to fix it. Same can be said abt self driving cars.

To protest against google participating in such projects is not a direct way of stop this kind of thing from happening, as other stated, someone else will do it anyway if its not google. more social discussion, regularization, legalization need to happen ASAP.

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13 minutes ago, Devin92 said:

In a lethal military operation, some body need to hold accountability. leave other ppl's life to the decision made by a program is anti-humanity imo. i think AI's adaptation need much much more regulation. we dont want to cause a chaos and then try to fix it. Same can be said abt self driving cars.

To protest against google participating in such projects is not a direct way of stop this kind of thing from happening, as other stated, someone else will do it anyway if its not google. more social discussion, regularization, legalization need to happen ASAP.

The issue is the difficulty of regulation, especially the use of AI for military purposes even if it currently is just observation.

Any country which does not at least research in this field would later place themselves at a disadvantage, it is highly likely that other powers such as China, South Korea and Israel are at least researching in this field. In comparison to nuclear weapons the facilities used to develop this type of technology can be easily hidden and doesn't require limited raw materials.

Hopefully human morals will overrule the desire for automating military weaponry.

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6 minutes ago, Starelementpoke said:

One day we'll all get along. 

yee, once our free will is all gone its going to be one happy, homgonus, place :) 

 

anyway while i dislike the thought of autonomus killing id rather have tech developed by someone that can do it right than someone that will screw it up. the tech is going to be developed, if not by google, by someone else. id rather have someone that can do it right do it right, however much i dislike it. 

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And no one asks if this technology might help save lives of those misidentified targets? Or the lives saved by properly identifying threats? Don't let the doubt cloud judgement.

 

If this tool helps, I'm for it. But i believe only people should make the choice to kill someone else. A drone is an extension, a tool. Not a decision maker.

 

And I highly doubt Google working on this project is the most "ethically questionable" thing Google has ever done (or will ever do)....

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I don´t get all the outrage. I want to work for a weapons manufacturer one day because they have so many secret and interesting projects.

 

Why do you want to program a toaster when you can help program a drone?

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29 minutes ago, ScratchCat said:

The issue is the difficulty of regulation, especially the use of AI for military purposes even if it currently is just observation.

Any country which does not at least research in this field would later place themselves at a disadvantage, it is highly likely that other powers such as China, South Korea and Israel are at least researching in this field. In comparison to nuclear weapons the facilities used to develop this type of technology can be easily hidden and doesn't require limited raw materials.

Hopefully human morals will overrule the desire for automating military weaponry.

yes its difficult. that why the social discussion need to be started as soon as possible. right now people either dont know about the power/(chaos if abused) of AI or blindly doing it for the sake of money. It's as you said still under experimental stage and this is the perfect timing to regulate it (at least start to). it will be way harder to regulate if the industry is matured. I think employees leaving google isnt the best way to draw attention from the larger group of society, stopping google isnt gonna change a thing.

 

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What a time we live in, when people can afford to quite their jobs to support an ideal.  

 

As opposed to half the world that works jobs they hate for evil pricks just to support their family.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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They can stand on their morals all they want but the reality is Google doesn't care, the only thing that would make them cancel the project is their stock price. All these people have done is put themselves out of a job which will be taken by a less morally opinionated person extremely quickly.

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36 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

And no one asks if this technology might help save lives of those misidentified targets? Or the lives saved by properly identifying threats? Don't let the doubt cloud judgement.

 

If this tool helps, I'm for it. But i believe only people should make the choice to kill someone else. A drone is an extension, a tool. Not a decision maker.

 

And I highly doubt Google working on this project is the most "ethically questionable" thing Google has ever done (or will ever do)....

By what I understand, that was a bit of the purpose.

The intel folks get flooded with data to the point they can't review all of it in a timely manner.

 

Anyway, sure took the employees a bit to finally have an issue with Google working with DoD, considering Google already done some software work with them on previous projects.

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15 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Well no one is going to say they want a product for a less-than-noble cause. And having worked with DoD previously does not mean any of them involved AI being used to kill people.

Technically the AI is not doing the killing.  Commanders and ground combat intel still has to make that decision.  The AI purpose by my reading is to help assist in knowing what certain objects are and if certain videos need human review.  The final decision is still required to be made by a higher up over seeing missions.

 

Like currently during missions, troops don't just open fire, but verify if targets are legal to be fired on.  Usually a combat controller is involved with such decision making along with unit commanders.  Its a complex process at times.

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1 hour ago, Starelementpoke said:

One day we'll all get along. 

If there is a single person on the planet maybe, and even then I'm skeptical xD

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2 hours ago, Kenji the Uke said:

Oh.. This isnt gonna be good 3: Good for them though, for standing up for what they think is right.

I respect people who are that principled. I wonder how much their jobs paid.

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Guess when you encourage an activist workforce, it can turn around and bite you in ways you don't expect.

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