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Intel 18c HEDT Die Pictured, Not Soldered (7980XE)

The Benjamins
By The Benjamins
in Tech News
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18c-die.jpg

 

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We are just starting to ramp back up here after the long holiday weekend, so let's start with something that is both interesting and easy to absorb. High-profile overclocker Der8auer has gotten his hands on an 18-core Skylake-X processor and did exactly what you would expect - delidded it. 

The takeaway from this is two-fold. First, the die appears very clean, indicating that Intel has still not decided to solder these high-end processors and is going with a standard thermal interface between the die and the heat spreader. 

It is really sad to see this thing not be soldered, but what did you expect from Intel.

 

See how many tiny CAPs are around it this thing will be SCARY to delid.

 

7900X for scale

 

10c-die.jpg

 

@done12many2 What are your thoughts on this not being soldered? and that TR4 will be getting bootable CPU NVME Raid on Sept 25

if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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So basically don't buy this generation 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

It has 2 PCBs, that's interesting. Did the older generations had this too?

I think this is the first time we seen it like this, but the whole x299 line is like this.

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Thats one cool chip

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2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

I think this is the first time we seen it like this, but the whole x299 line is like this.

I understand why KL-X is like this, but why is SKX like this? Uniformity for cooler mounting I guess? 

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Just now, djdwosk97 said:

I understand why KL-X is like this, but why is SKX like this? Uniformity for cooler mounting I guess? 

I have no clue. it could be a way of making the substrate stronger to accommodate for the higher mounting pressure. keep in mind Intel made the substrate thinner recently.

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Based on some rough measurements, the die is 23x22mm, so 506mm^2. The die is HUGE, which means that heat transfer will be better than the 7900X but it also means that power consumption will be INSANE.

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No solder?

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intel to amd.png

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1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Based on some rough measurements, the die is 23x22mm, so 506mm^2. The die is HUGE, which means that heat transfer will be better than the 7900X but it also means that power consumption will be INSANE.

So basically we're approaching large GPU-die sizes. Yay for definitely good yields.

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Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Based on some rough measurements, the die is 23x22mm, so 506mm^2. The die is HUGE, which means that heat transfer will be better than the 7900X but it also means that power consumption will be INSANE.

The heat transfer is better at the same rated TDP, but for overclocking it will be harder too cool at the same clock.

 

I expect a need for delid if any remotely high OC is wanted.

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intel its not that hard pls solder thanks

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2 minutes ago, BingoFishy said:

intel its not that hard pls solder thanks

One could argue it's not that hard to just put a shim around the package and leave the die exposed, as GPUs tend to be now and days.

 

But then again those are shipped with a heatsink attached.

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Yay, another MageTank prophecy has come to be true! Bow down to me mortals, for I know all!*

 

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Intel, WTF?

Solder it ffs... It's a small detail but holy crap it can hurt the X299 line in a big way.

If the stupid CPU would have thermal issues with the smallest OC it's going to be boring for enthusiasts unless they want to delid and risk breaking their new expensive toy.

 

Overclocking Threadripper seems more like a challenge then.

 

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1 minute ago, MageTank said:

*MageTank does not know why kids love the taste of cinnamon toast crunch, nor can he provide the number of licks required to make it to the center of a tootsie pop. These are the only known limitations of his powers.

Well if you cant answer these two questions what good are you? I've been searching for these answers for sixteen goddamn years...

I came close once to finding the answer, alas it slipped through my grasp like smoke in a fishing net. (getting off topic sorry)

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Now, I can make even soldered dies clean like that, but they's by using acid strong (and hot enough) to remove the layers involved, not something Der8auer would do, so congrats Intel, you've made AMD even better than they made themselves. 

Yours faithfully

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Just now, TVwazhere said:

Well if you cant answer these two questions what good are you? I've been searching for these answers for sixteen goddamn years...

I came close once to finding the answer, alas it slipped through my grasp like smoke in a fishing net. (getting off topic sorry)

Once upon a time, I knew those answers, but the moment I hit 18, the knowledge was stripped from me. Along with my ability to consume Trix. Life is cruel.

 

@ the topic; It surprises me how shocked everyone here is. Ignoring my months in advance of warning of this exact outcome, all other signs pointed to this. The 12c+ SKU's are all cut from the exact same die, and none of those were soldered. I can say this though, the larger die is a serious boon for heat transfer to the IHS. These 18c CPU's are actually running quite cool, even when compared to the 10c SKU. The 12C sharing the exact same die size, is going to be king for high core count AND high clocks, as it will have all of the thermal advantages of the larger die size, while reaping the overclocking benefits of having less cores to stabilize. Can't wait for Der8auer to finish his delid tools, and see some real benching done on the 12 core. 

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On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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Just now, MageTank said:

Once upon a time, I knew those answers, but the moment I hit 18, the knowledge was stripped from me. Along with my ability to consume Trix. Life is cruel.

 

@ the topic; It surprises me how shocked everyone here is. Ignoring my months in advance of warning of this exact outcome, all other signs pointed to this. The 12c+ SKU's are all cut from the exact same die, and none of those were soldered. I can say this though, the larger die is a serious boon for heat transfer to the IHS. These 18c CPU's are actually running quite cool, even when compared to the 10c SKU. The 12C sharing the exact same die size, is going to be king for high core count AND high clocks, as it will have all of the thermal advantages of the larger die size, while reaping the overclocking benefits of having less cores to stabilize. Can't wait for Der8auer to finish his delid tools, and see some real benching done on the 12 core. 

Isn't the 7900x cut from the LCC die and the 7980x cut from the MCC die? 

AMD Ryzen R7 1700 (3.8ghz) w/ NH-D14, EVGA RTX 2080 XC (stock), 4*4GB DDR4 3000MT/s RAM, Gigabyte AB350-Gaming-3 MB, CX750M PSU, 1.5TB SDD + 7TB HDD, Phanteks enthoo pro case

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Why is this a significant problem? I understand that heat dissipation would be better if soldered, but if it's hitting 4.8 on water anyway (not sure if it was delidded), does it matter?

 

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Just now, Tedny said:

So, Intel cheaped on 2k CPU?.... so, when Zen2 will come? 

late 2018, is what the road map says. and I expect it t be 12c, 24c, 48c levels (Main, HEDT, Server)

if you want to annoy me, then join my teamspeak server ts.benja.cc

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It's cute how some think they know better than Intel's thermal engineers...

WS: 13900K - 128GB - 6.5TB SSD - RTX 3090 24GB - 42" LG OLED C2  - W11 Pro
LAPTOP: Lenovo Gaming 3 - 8GB - 512GB SSD - GTX 1650

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17 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

 

@done12many2 What are your thoughts on this not being soldered? and that TR4 will be getting bootable CPU NVME Raid on Sept 25

 

Truthfully bud, the 12c - 18c parts are shaping up to be better than the 10c part with regards to thermals considering the big difference in die size.  Provided you cool it well, the 12c Skylake-X will hit clocks that will perform similarly with the 16 TR chip in mulit, but with pretty insane single-thread performance on top of it.  The 14c Skylake-X part is going to pass an overclocked 16c TR in both single and multi with a mild overclock.  As for the 16c through 18c Skylake-X, well, they will just pull away from a 16c TR chip.

 

An 18c Skylake-X at 4.5 GHz is going to run in the area of 4600+ CB multi with 210+ CB single.  Anything above 4.5 GHz is just going to be icing on the cake as far as performance is concerned.

 

TR getting RAID support is great.  It'll be neat to see how they did it without a RAID controller on the chip.  Hell, it may have one, but AMD never mentioned it.  

 

The way I see it, TR will remain the value king and Skylake-X will lead in performance.  Either will be great based on what you need/want out of a rig.

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1 minute ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Isn't the 7900x cut from the LCC die and the 7980x cut from the MCC die? 

The 6, 8 and 10 cores all share the same size die, while the 12, 14, 16 and 18 share the same size dies. I have not seen the 4 core versions delidded, so I cannot comment on it's die size, but I imagine it's the exact same die as the 7700k, copy-pasted on to a larger substrate, lol. 

 

Another MageTank prophecy that has come true: People would use lack of solder as a reason to bolster Zen being better, while completely ignoring any thermal/performance results. I need to go buy a magic staff, a wizard hat, and a cave/mountain. People would venture far and wide for predictions this strong. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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