COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Senzelian]

4 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I heard 3 Americans went up there very  recently wonder how many times they were tested lol.

As soon as one of them coughs, they are going be knocked out by a russian with a vodka bottle and stuffed into a Sojus. 

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

I heard 3 Americans went up there very  recently wonder how many times they were tested lol.

NASA has had a massive program for that sort of thing since the 60’s.  They’ve probably been in isolation since before December.  A non problem.  I’d be more worried about the Russians except they probably have the same or similar stuff going.

[PhantomJaguarr]

Mostly peaceful protests.

 

Luckily here law enforcement have been checking local essential businesses to check if they are complying with the recent ordinance to wear masks in public. As well as the customers. Some still don’t care.

[Spotty]

13 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

Covid-19 cases in the US? There's a map for that.

 

Huh? They don't show the USA country total for number of deaths?

 

 

It's currently at more than 66,000 deaths in the United States.

[captain_to_fire]

7 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Huh? They don't show the USA country total for number of deaths?

I think Johns Hopkins University broke down US death toll per state level.

[Spotty]

12 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I think Johns Hopkins University broke down US death toll per state level.

Maybe? But the bottom of the list is "New York City, New York", so that appears to be showing figures for just the city not the whole state of New York if I'm reading that correctly...?

 

Seems strange to have everywhere else listed as countries and then show American stats as state or even city within the same chart. It's a little misleading as it makes America's figures seem to be far lower than what they really are when in reality America's death rate is more than double the country that tops that list.

It's also not consistent with the chart on the other side showing the confirmed cases lists America as a country and doesn't show by state.

 

Ideally it should show America's country stats alongside the other countries, and then if they wanted they could have a separate chart that breaks the US figures down per state.

Just seems odd the way they've done it.

[lewdicrous]

3 minutes ago, Spotty said:

Ideally it should show America's country stats alongside the other countries, and then if they wanted they could have a separate chart that breaks the US figures down per state.

Just seems odd the way they've done it.

There's another site that does that (shows total instead of state)

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

If you click on USA then it shows data for each state.

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, Commodus said:

New Zealand does have the advantage of being an island distant to virtually every major country besides Australia, but still... this is what happens when you have grown-ups in charge of prevention and response.

I agree except with the island bit,  The US is just as separated from china by water as Newzealand is,  the difference is volume of people coming in and out, however volume by itself means nothing if you don't consider land size, time and pop density.  When we scale all those factors (even using napkin math) it is clear to see early and strong enforcement of border closure had a huge impact (same in Australia).

 

 

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I agree except with the island bit,  The US is just as separated from china by water as Newzealand is,  the difference is volume of people coming in and out, however volume by itself means nothing if you don't consider land size, time and pop density.  When we scale all those factors (even using napkin math) it is clear to see early and strong enforcement of border closure had a huge impact (same in Australia).

 

 

That's a fair point.  And speaks volumes about the US government's response... not to get too political, but the data is there.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

 not to get too political, but the data is there.

It's so hard when all the decisions are made by politicians.

.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

Mostly peaceful protests.

 

Luckily here law enforcement have been checking local essential businesses to check if they are complying with the recent ordinance to wear masks in public. As well as the customers. Some still don’t care.

Watched some of the riot video.  It seems to be all over the place at the moment.

 

A lot of people equate maga hats with neonazi groups.  I notice over half the people kicking and punching to be wearers of Them, but they were a small minority of the people at the event.  The video of guy in the maga hat who snuck up behind a person being held one the ground by another and carefully kicked them in the spine and ran away I found particularly evocative.

[lewdicrous]

Some grains of salt may be needed, but it won't be surprising if the total no. of infections and deaths is higher than what we know now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/29/far-greater-u-s-covid-19-death-toll-indicated-cdc-data/3048381001/

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

Maybe? But the bottom of the list is "New York City, New York", so that appears to be showing figures for just the city not the whole state of New York if I'm reading that correctly...?

 

Seems strange to have everywhere else listed as countries and then show American stats as state or even city within the same chart. It's a little misleading as it makes America's figures seem to be far lower than what they really are when in reality America's death rate is more than double the country that tops that list.

It's also not consistent with the chart on the other side showing the confirmed cases lists America as a country and doesn't show by state.

 

Ideally it should show America's country stats alongside the other countries, and then if they wanted they could have a separate chart that breaks the US figures down per state.

Just seems odd the way they've done it.

It was how they did it for China.  There was Wuhan city, Wuhan province, the other Chinese provinces, Beijing, and the nation as a whole.  For the big countries breakdown seems to be by division.  If the EU was considered one country it would be done by states.  Part of the issue with the US is population is very uneven.  North Dakota has almost nothing but they also have a population smaller than just New York City spread across an area the size of all of west Germany (my schooling on such things is 80’s vintage.  Back then the BDR was a thing)

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Some grains of salt may be needed, but it won't be surprising if the total no. of infections and deaths is higher than what we know now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/29/far-greater-u-s-covid-19-death-toll-indicated-cdc-data/3048381001/

I’ve seen projections saying that total US deaths will exceed total US deaths for the entire Vietnam war.

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Some grains of salt may be needed, but it won't be surprising if the total no. of infections and deaths is higher than what we know now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/29/far-greater-u-s-covid-19-death-toll-indicated-cdc-data/3048381001/

Certainly infections.  On forums alone I've seen numerous people who never got tested but had pretty obvious COVID-19 symptoms (fever, trouble breathing, loss of taste/smell).  And with deaths... well, there are people who might be frightened of going to the hospital or simply can't get treatment, as the article suggests, but some COVID-related deaths have manifested as cardiac arrests.

 

This is one of the reasons why the "open the economy now now now now" shriekers scare me.  The virus has already had more of an impact than the figures suggest; the last thing we need is to encourage those many undocumented infections to spread.

[Taf the Ghost]

16 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Some grains of salt may be needed, but it won't be surprising if the total no. of infections and deaths is higher than what we know now.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/04/29/far-greater-u-s-covid-19-death-toll-indicated-cdc-data/3048381001/

The antibody testing is already showing that the infection rate is massive. The testable level for the viral load tests is clearly well below what is needed for a low-incidence run of the virus. 

 

Also, and this is the joy of public stats, expect a lot of deaths to be flagged as COVID19 that aren't. This is a sticky virus in a hospital, so anyone dying of something else will likely test positive for it. Depending on the circumstances, there's also more money to be made by tagging a death as a COVID19.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Watched some of the riot video.  It seems to be all over the place at the moment.

 

A lot of people equate maga hats with neonazi groups.  I notice over half the people kicking and punching to be wearers of Them, but they were a small minority of the people at the event.  The video of guy in the maga hat who snuck up behind a person being held one the ground by another and carefully kicked them in the spine and ran away I found particularly evocative.

Media optics plants. Welcome to Narrative Creation. You'll be really blown away when you learn of the world of "Rent-a-riots".

[lewdicrous]

10 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve seen projections saying that total US deaths will exceed total US deaths for the entire Vietnam war.

At this rate, I won't be surprised tbh.

7 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Certainly infections.  On forums alone I've seen numerous people who never got tested but had pretty obvious COVID-19 symptoms (fever, trouble breathing, loss of taste/smell).  And with deaths... well, there are people who might be frightened of going to the hospital or simply can't get treatment, as the article suggests, but some COVID-related deaths have manifested as cardiac arrests.

 

This is one of the reasons why the "open the economy now now now now" shriekers scare me.  The virus has already had more of an impact than the figures suggest; the last thing we need is to encourage those many undocumented infections to spread.

Not sure of the validity of this, but I remember reading that some states (can't remember if it was only one or more than one state) were trying to hide/stop posting numbers. If that's true, then yea, the number of infections/deaths may be off, possibly more than what is predicted.

Is testing/treatment free in the US? Cause I can see the cost of it all stopping those who don't have insurance.

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The antibody testing is already showing that the infection rate is massive. The testable level for the viral load tests is clearly well below what is needed for a low-incidence run of the virus. 

 

Also, and this is the joy of public stats, expect a lot of deaths to be flagged as COVID19 that aren't. This is a sticky virus in a hospital, so anyone dying of something else will likely test positive for it. Depending on the circumstances, there's also more money to be made by tagging a death as a COVID19.

Unfortunately the data is not 100% accurate for many reasons; insufficient testing, misdiagnosis, maybe even overdiagnosis, etc..

The problem is figuring out what the +/- is for the number of infections and deaths.

[lewdicrous]

7 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Media optics plants. Welcome to Narrative Creation. You'll be really blown away when you learn of the world of "Rent-a-riots".

Yep, astroturfing is a bitch.

It's money over morals for those people. 

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

At this rate, I won't be surprised tbh.

Not sure of the validity of this, but I remember reading that some states (can't remember if it was only one or more than one state) were trying to hide/stop posting numbers. If that's true, then yea, the number of infections/deaths may be off, possibly more than what is predicted.

Is testing/treatment free in the US? Cause I can see the cost of it all stopping those who don't have insurance.

Unfortunately the data is not 100% accurate for many reasons; insufficient testing, misdiagnosis, maybe even overdiagnosis, etc..

The problem is figuring out what the +/- is for the number of infections and deaths.

The current crop of tests are either "bad", high error rate or they can only catch certain strains of the virus properly.  That's part of the reason all of the screaming about stats is fairly meaningless. Even if the data wasn't poisoned, any critical analysis tells you that you're missing a significant amount of the data and the causation of that data. Hard reality is that the 3 classic symptom set (headache, fever & shortness of breath) is running only around 60% at the testable level. While, at the same time, there's been a lot of complaining where patients that clearly are presenting don't test positive.

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

11 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Yep, astroturfing is a bitch.

It's money over morals for those people. 

And, as always happens, the people that commit crimes never seem to get caught. Almost like it was the local officials that were managing that.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

And, as always happens, the people that commit crimes never seem to get caught. Almost like it was the local officials that were managing that.

People who want to commit crimes and know they are about to commit a crime generally take steps to prevent successful prosecution.  It’s the people who do it by accident or in a fit of rage that get caught.  Real premeditated murder is often very hard to pin.  The other one is the US justice system drastically favors the wealthy.   

[Zodiark1593]

9 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

And, as always happens, the people that commit crimes never seem to get caught. Almost like it was the local officials that were managing that.

Given the nature of the internet, if proper steps to anonymize oneself are taken (VPN, public wifi, MAC spoofing, alias, etc), it can be virtually infeasible to track down the source of intentional bad information. 

 

Without definitive proof in hand, blaming someone or another (regardless of their side or opinion) is only guesswork, which would most certainly (for very good reason) not be admissible in any reasonable court of law. 

[Rakanoth]

Saving 'lives' isn't the only reason people support lockdowns. Many have grown comfortable with the idea of lockdowns and are suffering from 'Lockdown Syndrome'.

 

Many people, especially those unhappy with their jobs, are quite happy with the new normal of getting paid for doing nothing and more time for hobbies, family bonding, etc.

 

"Why you might be dreading the end of lockdown": https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/why-you-might-be-dreading-the-end-of-lockdown/2020/04/28/8b5aa2f6-865e-11ea-a3eb-e9fc93160703_story.html

 

"I don't want lockdown to end": https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualUK/comments/g9icoa/i_dont_want_lockdown_to_end/

 

"The lockdown paradox": why some people's anxiety is improving during the crisis https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/29/coronavirus-lockdown-anxiety-mental-health

 

"People are dreading post lockdown life and we asked a psychologist to explain why": https://thetab.com/uk/2020/05/01/people-are-dreading-post-lockdown-life-and-we-asked-a-psychologist-to-explain-why-154725

[Andreas Lilja]

58 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve seen projections saying that total US deaths will exceed total US deaths for the entire Vietnam war.

Already has... Vietnam war death toll is like 55-60k.