COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Rocketdog2112]

3 hours ago, WkdPaul said:

That is completely disingenuous.

 

All false statements ;

 

• the polio vaccine has only a 90% efficacy, you need 3 shots to get to 99%,
• Similar with chickenpox ; efficacy is only 90%,
• Shingles efficacy is only at 90% after 2 doses,
• Single dose for measles is 85%-95%, again, you need a second dose to get close to 100%,
• etc...

 

Sources ;

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html

https://www.hhs.gov/immunization/diseases/chickenpox/index.html

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/index.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/healthy-living/canadian-immunization-guide-part-4-active-vaccines/page-12-measles-vaccine.html

 

 

That's normal, it can take up to 2 weeks for the vaccine to be effective, getting COVID a few days after getting the shot only means you're unlucky, not that the vaccine is ineffective.

 

 

If you're going to present things as facts, I strongly suggest you look it up before spreading misinformation.

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

 

Otherwise why are vaccinated people still catching covid-19 regardless of severity?

[Rocketdog2112]

4 hours ago, WkdPaul said:

That is completely disingenuous.

 

Hardly.

Universal healthcare is a complete failure.

I myself have a version of it available to me in the States. I am American Indian and have free healthcare available to me thru the Indian Nations healthcare system.

Waiting six months or more to see a doctor, yeah no thanks. I'll just use my private insurance and doctor of my choice.

[WkdPaul]

23 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

 

Otherwise why are vaccinated people still catching covid-19 regardless of severity?

You're trolling ?

 

@tikker @dalekphalm and I just gave you % on vaccine efficacy, also, no, they're NOT eradicated.

 

Polio numbers have been rising in the last 3-4 years, same with a few other diseases you mentioned.

 

If you're going to make things up, you're welcome to do it elsewhere, everything you've said about vaccine is false and stems from misinformation.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Hardly.

Universal healthcare is a complete failure.

I myself have a version of it available to me in the States. I am American Indian and have free healthcare available to me thru the Indian Nations healthcare system.

Waiting six months or more to see a doctor, yeah no thanks. I'll just use my private insurance and doctor of my choice.

I'm from Canada, I can get an appointment to see a doctor in a few days, at worse, in a few weeks. And that's because of short staff due to COVID. Before that I could just walk into my clinic and see any doctors that were available without any appointments.

 

And if it's an emergency, I can always walk into any emergency room.

 

YOU having a hard time seeing a doctor in one specific system doesn't mean universal health care is a failure, there are nuances you seem to be unwilling to take into account (both for universal health care and vaccines).

[whm1974]

25 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

 

Otherwise why are vaccinated people still catching covid-19 regardless of severity?

I only had two get two and yes Vaccines do work. The Vaccinated Folks are getting a evolved strain that have minor effects on those People. They are not dying or ending up in the Hospital. 

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

I myself have a version of it available to me in the States.

That's the problem. Just because it doesn't work here, doesn't mean it's a failure everywhere.

That's like saying just because A/C is practically needed in Arizona, every house here in Alaska has to have it. 

24 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work

That's still apples to oranges. Here in the states by the time you're 17, you're 91.9% likely to have had the MMR shot.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/measles.htm

64% of our entire population (in the states) have been fully vaccinated. Even if the COVID19 vaccine was as effective as the MMR one, it's still at a 30% difference in rates. Of course people can still get it. Combine that with states that are at or under 50% and of course you have clusters of it. How can you expect that to not happen?

 

[tikker]

37 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

What is the "proper dose" is for a vaccine according to you? The polio vaccine whose efficacy you praise

1. gives only 30-50% protection after 1 shot [Grassly 2014]
2. gives only 80-90% protection after 2 shots [Grassly 2014]
3. needs THREE shots to reach the 99-100% efficacy [CDC] and even then comes in a four shot package

Sounds like a pretty failed vaccine by the reasoning you presented earlier? Yet we persevered with it and now we have few cases left. It's simply false to pretend that the COVID-19 vaccine doesn't work or isn't "the proper dose". The numbers do not indicate that. There simply are unkowns about the immunity and how long it lasts as this virus and disease has only existed for 2 years. We made a vaccine in record time. The immunity may not last as long as we like, but it no doubt saved people and has bought us valuable time to study it further and maybe hopefully find a vaccine that grants long lasting immunity.

 

Eradicating a disease doesn't happen overnight (and even polio still pops up on rare occasion). Now why have those diseases become such a minor concern for modern society? They have been eradicated through continous and ONGOING vaccination efforts. To this day as a child you are still vaccinated against polio, measles, mumps etc. [CDC, RIVM] Why? because if we don't, they'll be back and not with a nice Austrian accent.

 

Even the polio virus is still around and actually has a new mutated version:

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/poliomyelitis/news/news/2021/3/circulating-vaccine-derived-poliovirus-type-2-detected-in-tajikistan

The driver behind such a mutation in an all-but-100% eradicated virus is a seriously under-immunised population [WHO]

 

With the Omicron variant, SARS-CoV-2 has also become the most infectious virus in the world now. It's even more infectious than measles, which as mentioned above requires herd immunity of 95% to keep it in check, let alone eradicate it. Now consider the fact that you need to vaccinate the entire world against COVID-19 to even have a chance of eradicating it and hopefully you see that this is tremendously easier said than done. Add to that that a substantial fraction of people is simpy refusing to take the vaccine for no good reason and chances of eradicating it are about as good as eradicating the flu I'd say.

[Kilrah]

1 hour ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

 

Otherwise why are vaccinated people still catching covid-19 regardless of severity?

Firstly as mentioned they're not eradicated, and yes people still catch them. Few of them, because in our countries almost everyone is vaccinated against them. That is the requirement that is not met with covid, herd immunity.

[whm1974]

47 minutes ago, tikker said:

Eradicating a disease doesn't happen overnight (and even polio still pops up on rare occasion). Now why have those diseases become such a minor concern for modern society? They have been eradicated through continous and ONGOING vaccination efforts. To this day as a child you are still vaccinated against polio, measles, mumps etc. [CDC, RIVM] Why? because if we don't, they'll be back and not with a nice Austrian accent.

 

Even the polio virus is still around and actually has a new mutated version:

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/poliomyelitis/news/news/2021/3/circulating-vaccine-derived-poliovirus-type-2-detected-in-tajikistan

The driver behind such a mutation in an all-but-100% eradicated virus is a seriously under-immunised population [WHO]

Polio, Mumps, and German are nasty Childhood Diseases for Children to get. Polio can leave you unable to walk or worse, breath. Mumps can leave you Sterile, and German Measles while in a family way can result in a Baby with Mental Retardation...

[Rocketdog2112]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

What is the "proper dose" is for a vaccine according to you? The polio vaccine whose efficacy you praise

1. gives only 30-50% protection after 1 shot [Grassly 2014]
2. gives only 80-90% protection after 2 shots [Grassly 2014]
3. needs THREE shots to reach the 99-100% efficacy [CDC] and even then comes in a four shot package

 

And that is a KNOW value, ulike the covid vaccines...

[Rocketdog2112]

1 hour ago, WkdPaul said:

You're trolling ?

As usual...

Your typical response to anyone who post anything against your professional medical opinion.

[WkdPaul]

5 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

As usual...

Your typical response to anyone who post anything against your professional medical opinion.

We're giving you PROOF that what you're saying is false and misinformation, and you reply with more falsehood and misinformation.

 

We're on the INTERNET, where finding accurate information is seconds away and takes all but a few clicks.

 

Go back up and read the links and sources that were supplied. You're spreading misinformation, and when corrected, you dig your heels is and spread MORE misinformation and falsehood, so, what should we believe then? That you're willfully ignorant? Or that you're just posting this to antagonize others? I sincerely prefer to think it's the second option ... 

[tikker]

19 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

And that is a KNOW value, ulike the covid vaccines...

Well yeah now it is in hindsight, but at the time of development it likely wasn't. Of course we don't know this for COVID-19. The disease has only existed for 2 years, the vaccine even less. The knowledge that four polio shots are necessary / the best comes from following people for literal decades and studying how the immunity changes. Just like we now cannot say "we'll finish COVID-19 in three shots" when first making the polio vaccine they also would not have said "this will be a four part vaccine". From that same WHO source:

Quote

Concerns about the persistence of serum anti-bodies following immunization with IPV have prompted most countries using this vaccine to include booster doses in the  immunization schedule. There are few prospective studies that examine the issue of antibody persistence after IPV. In Sweden, Bottiger followed 65 IPV-immunized children for 18 years. They received doses of IPV at 9, 10 to 11, and 16 to 29 months and a booster at 6 or 10 years.

Polio has now been around for decades, studied for decades, the vaccine and its immunre response studied for decades. This knowledge will come over time for COVID-19, but as of now we simply do not have the temporal baseline for COVID-19 to know this properly. You cannot say shot now, booster in one year, final booster in two years if it's literally been maybe 1 year since vaccination even started.

 

[WkdPaul]

17 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

And that is a KNOW value, ulike the covid vaccines...

????????????

 

You know the polio vaccine came out multiple DECADES ago, right ?

 

A vaccines that's not even 2 years old won't have the same amount of long term data, pointing that out is logical, and pretending you have a point doing that is, again, disingenuous.

 

This is akin to say that we know 90's Toyotas are reliable, but we have no clue about 2022 Fords ... yeah, no shit!

[IkeaGnome]

24 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

And that is a KNOW value, ulike the covid vaccines...

Was it at the time though?

Spoiler

80-90% effective. Ended up being higher than that. Headlines also seem very familiar.

Spoiler

They were also suspended for a little while like the J&J.

Spoiler

Oh look, it also had a vaccination card that people seem so against now.

Quote

In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned. Subsequent investigations revealed that the vaccine, manufactured by the California-based family firm of Cutter Laboratories, had caused 40 000 cases of polio, leaving 200 children with varying degrees of paralysis and killing 10.

It even came with it's own side effects, including a chance of giving polio at one point. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

 

Do you see the similarities that you're arguing against? 

[tikker]

13 minutes ago, WkdPaul said:

????????????

 

You know the polio vaccine came out multiple DECADES ago, right ?

 

A vaccines that's not even 2 years old won't have the same amount of long term data, pointing that out is logical, and pretending you have a point doing that is, again, disingenuous.

 

This is akin to say that we know 90's Toyotas are reliable, but we have no clue about 2022 Fords ... yeah, no shit!

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three time is... enemy action? Not sure yet. What will be the third thing we post minutes after one another I wonder

10 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Was it at the time though?

  Reveal hidden contents

80-90% effective. Ended up being higher than that. Headlines also seem very familiar.

  Reveal hidden contents

They were also suspended for a little while like the J&J.

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh look, it also had a vaccination card that people seem so against now.

It even came with it's own side effects, including a chance of giving polio at one point. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

 

Do you see the similarities that you're arguing against? 

Oh cool. That's even more similar than I suspected already. I'm stealling these for my arguments and archives if you don't mind...

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, tikker said:

Oh cool. That's even more similar than I guessed already

The disease is new, but same old song and dance made worse by social media, untrue "facts", and politcs.

 

[tkitch]

3 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet those diseases listed above were eradicated with their proper doses unlike covid-19 which is up to now four shots and it's still yet to be eradicated because the vaccines don't work.

 

Otherwise why are vaccinated people still catching covid-19 regardless of severity?

COVID isn't the same kind of disease as MMR, Polio, or others.  If you think all diseases are the same, Cancers would like a few words with you.

 

Also:  A full third of the US population is making arguments just as stupid as yours to avoid getting vaccinated.  There is no such thing as an easily-communicable virus that will be eradicated when 1/3 of the population won't get the shots because they're braindead.

 

Also:  Measels is back, because of anti-vaxxers.  Just sayin'

[BondiBlue]

4 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

The disease is new, but same old song and dance made worse by social media, untrue "facts", and politcs.

People on the local news website have started to advocate for getting rid of the testing centers. Their logic is that less testing = less Covid cases. Even when presented with facts people on social media just love to stay in their own little bubble and ignore the actual truths about things going on around them. 

[tikker]

9 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

The disease is new, but same old song and dance made worse by social media, untrue "facts", and politcs.

 

Yeah I figured that much. It's interesting (to me) to see how truly close it is. History really does have a way of repeating itself huh.

  

2 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

People on the local news website have started to advocate for getting rid of the testing centers. Their logic is that less testing = less Covid cases. Even when presented with facts people on social media just love to stay in their own little bubble and ignore the actual truths about things going on around them. 

The number of tests is slowly starting to lose meaning in places though. For example, over here they changed policy that if you have symptoms and test positive with a self-test you no longer have to confirm with a PCR test. Although asymptomatic infections may be more interesting, that skews the numbers downwards and muddies the waters.

[IkeaGnome]

13 minutes ago, tikker said:

History really does have a way of repeating itself huh.

Pretty scary isn't it?

 

Not related to your quote:

My company did very well through COVID. Omnicron has us effed up out here. For those that don't know, it's a remote man camp. Hour bus ride, 40 minute boat ride, 15 minute bust ride to camp. No roads connect us to town. All through COVID we had maybe 30 cases on site(about 200-350 people on site at a time). Right before Omnicron hit our policies change. If you test positive for COVID you get 5 days in a hotel in town from the time you first felt symptoms. Paid like normal. $65 a day per diem for food. If you test positive days 1-4 of your work rotation you have to use PTO, and they don't pay for the hotel or your food. 

And they wonder why we had 67 cases out here last week. Since the 8th of January, we've had almost 260lbs of TEST KITS come to site. 

[Andreas Lilja]

Restaurants reopening in Ontario on the 31st, still no news for QC. 50% capacity is safe, c'mon. 

[dalekphalm]

34 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Pretty scary isn't it?

 

Not related to your quote:

My company did very well through COVID. Omnicron has us effed up out here. For those that don't know, it's a remote man camp. Hour bus ride, 40 minute boat ride, 15 minute bust ride to camp. No roads connect us to town. All through COVID we had maybe 30 cases on site(about 200-350 people on site at a time). Right before Omnicron hit our policies change. If you test positive for COVID you get 5 days in a hotel in town from the time you first felt symptoms. Paid like normal. $65 a day per diem for food. If you test positive days 1-4 of your work rotation you have to use PTO, and they don't pay for the hotel or your food. 

And they wonder why we had 67 cases out here last week. Since the 8th of January, we've had almost 260lbs of TEST KITS come to site. 

I reacted with a laugh at your post. Not because it's haha funny, but more like "fml" funny.

[IkeaGnome]

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I reacted with a laugh at your post. Not because it's haha funny, but more like "fml" funny.

Oh it's just ignorant. We went from 14 days on 14 off before COVID for a work schedule to 2 weeks at home, 2 in quarantine, 4 at work. At one point we went to 2 1 and 3. Even vaccinated people were getting tested days 1 and 5 of quarantine. Now this. 

[tikker]

11 hours ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Well, if it's on the internet.... it's got to be the truth...Right? Talk about ignorance...

The references that were linked were from government bodies, the WHO and other health organisations and peer-reviewed science articles though. It's fine to be sceptical, that's always good, but those aren't random internet sources. The information there has gone through the proper channels that aim to ensure they are trustworthy results.

[Rocketdog2112]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:13 AM, tikker said:

The references that were linked were from government bodies, the WHO and other health organisations and peer-reviewed science articles though. It's fine to be sceptical, that's always good, but those aren't random internet sources. The information there has gone through the proper channels that aim to ensure they are trustworthy results.

But yet the CDC, WHO and fuchi are always at odds with each other.

Even now they have finally admitted that anything mask Les than a N95 is worthless.