COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[tikker]

50 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet the CDC, WHO and fuchi are always at odds with each other.

Science is always a constant debate. That doesn't mean they're wrong. Different entities, different people having different points of view and different goals. From a human health point of view vaccination should be made mandatory, maybe everyone should have been locked in their house with surveillance ensuring nobody goes out util the virus has been dealt with. I don't live in the US, but I don't have the impression that, for example, the three entities you mention are completely at odds with each other. Care to elaborate on a few points?

50 minutes ago, Rocketdog2112 said:

Even now they have finally admitted that anything mask Les than a N95 is worthless.

People have severely misundertood the purpose of masks. They were instated to prevent you spreading big(ger) droplets containing the virus and not to stop you from catching it. They made sense until we concluded that the virus is indeed airborne and mainly spreads through aerosols instead of the big(ger) droplets. That did take a while to work its way up the ladder. If you want to protect yourself then indeed you need a mask that filters the relevant size aerosols. We also had some mad rushes on masks leaving even the people who needed them most (doctors and like on the front lines) couldn't get them anymore, so even if not super effective I can see a little bit why they waited so long to raise the recommendation.

 

There's nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong, even if they're trying their hardest to not say they were and just change the advice.

[tkitch]

For anyone complaining about "But then it changed!"

Well, yeah shit changes.  Always has, always will.  

 

[Andreas Lilja]

So if you followed Canadian news recently truckers should apparently be in charge of public health.

[JimStew]

Is The WAN Show following BC Covid-19 guidelines?

 

Have Luke and/or Linus addressed why they are continuing The WAN Show in person without wearing masks and/or social distancing? I believe British Columbia requires mask wearing while in doors and while at work.

 

Thanks.

[Spotty]

11 hours ago, JimStew said:

Is The WAN Show following BC Covid-19 guidelines?

 

Have Luke and/or Linus addressed why they are continuing The WAN Show in person without wearing masks and/or social distancing? I believe British Columbia requires mask wearing while in doors and while at work.

 

Thanks.

Appears they're in compliance, at least according to the most recent policy regarding masks in BC I can see online.

 

Seems the regulations only require masks in office buildings if providing service to members of the public. It appears office workers not open to the public aren't required to wear masks.

 

Quote

“indoor public space” means the indoor area of any of the following but does not
include a working area
(a) a building or structure that is provided for the common use of all occupants
and invitees of the building or structure, including lobbies, hallways, public
bathrooms and elevators, that is used as
(i) a retail business,
(ii) a service business,
(iii) an office building other than office, cubicle or other room in an office
building to which a member of the public has been invited by an
operator or worker for the purpose of receiving a service;
(iv) a hotel,
(v) a restaurant, pub, bar or other business that prepares and sells
food or drink,
(vi) a mall or shopping centre,
(vii) a pharmacy,
(viii) a fitness facility or a sport facility,
(ix) a place in which a non-profit organization provides goods or
services to the public,
(x) a place that provides cultural, entertainment or recreational services
or activities, including a theatre, cinema, concert hall, arcade,
billiard hall, museum, gallery or library
(xi) a conference centre, community hall or other place that hosts public
events;
(xii) a courthouse; or
(xiii) a worship space and attached premises operated by a faith
community when used for secular purposes;
(b) a taxi, limousine, perimeter seating vehicle, perimeter seating bus,
vehicle used for a commercial ride sharing service or other vehicle for
hire;
(c) a public transportation vehicle;
(d) the indoor or sheltered portion or a terminal, station or other location
at which persons
(i) load onto or unload from a public transportation vehicle, or
6
(ii) wait to load onto a public transportation vehicle;
(e) an airport, heliport or seaplane terminal;

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/about-bc-s-health-care-system/office-of-the-provincial-health-officer/covid-19/covid-19-pho-order-face-coverings.pdf

 

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/covid-19/info/restrictions

 

 

On top of this they've also been working remotely for some live streams. You can see Luke's disembodied torso floating where he has been greenscreened in.

[Quackers101]

1 minute ago, Spotty said:

Appears they're in compliance, at least according to the most recent policy regarding masks in BC I can see online.

 

Seems the regulations only require masks in office buildings if providing service to members of the public. It appears office workers not open to the public aren't required to wear masks.

 

On top of this they've also been working remotely for some live streams. You can see Luke's disembodied torso floating where he has been greenscreened in.

was a little bit jarring how quickly it got from "use mask" to "lets not". I guess they take more tests instead? can't tell or if they had a meeting on what they agreed upon so nobody gets seriously ill or agree with the risks they take. At times I did wonder why they didn't use masks even with new people around. but oh well, things might be fine over there for now.

[atxcyclist]

I hope everyone is staying safe and taking necessary precautions for themselves and those around them. I won't say I've met my covid fatigue limit because it's been almost two years already and this is just life now, but it is difficult not being around friends and extended family through so many holidays and birthdays.

[Spotty]

6 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

was a little bit jarring how quickly it got from "use mask" to "lets not". I guess they take more tests instead? can't tell or if they had a meeting on what they agreed upon so nobody gets seriously ill or agree with the risks they take. At times I did wonder why they didn't use masks even with new people around. but oh well, things might be fine over there for now.

LMG? I believe around the office they do wear masks but they remove them when they're on camera filming. In the behind the scenes videos when they're walking around the office you see everyone wearing masks.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, Spotty said:

LMG? I believe around the office they do wear masks but they remove them when they're on camera filming. In the behind the scenes videos when they're walking around the office you see everyone wearing masks.

Agreed - and the fact that they're almost certainly legally classified as a production studio (no different from a Newsroom or a film set), anyone on camera is likely exempt from mask rules.

 

On top of that, they're almost certainly doing daily rapid testing as well (or at least frequently).

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8536937/trucker-freedom-convoy-gofundme-update/amp/

 

People don't have better charities? 

[dalekphalm]

42 minutes ago, Andreas Lilja said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8536937/trucker-freedom-convoy-gofundme-update/amp/

 

People don't have better charities? 

More than $4.5 million - damn son.

 

I just checked the GoFundMe itself directly - the goal is $5m - and they're past $4.6m now. Also, the stated goal of the fund is to pay for fuel and lodging... I have to ask - do they really need $5m for that?

 

What are they gonna use the rest of the money for (let's assume that it uses $1m for fuel and lodging costs - and that's assuming a lot)?

[Commodus]

On 1/22/2022 at 10:28 AM, Rocketdog2112 said:

But yet the CDC, WHO and fuchi are always at odds with each other.

Even now they have finally admitted that anything mask Les than a N95 is worthless.

They're not always at odds with each other, and it's still possible to find many common points. For one thing, most masks aren't worthless — they did just fine with earlier COVID-19 variants. The problem now is that Omicron is so much more infectious that a mask that worked decently before might work poorly now.

 

It feels like you (and plenty of others, to be fair) have a misunderstanding of how the scientific process works. Many seem to act as if scientists should have all the answers right away, that they should be in perfect lockstep, and that things which were initially valid will never have to change. 

 

In reality, though, science is a constantly evolving thing, and in the medical field you have to act on whatever data is available at the time. What we knew about COVID-19 in March 2020 isn't the same as what we know now, and of course the virus we're grappling with now isn't the same as the one we were dealing with back then. But agencies and scientists couldn't wait until they knew everything, or until the virus had settled down; they had to offer reasonably actionable data and scramble to know as much as they could. That's why advice changed from the extra-cautious (remember the "disinfect your groceries" days?) to more targeted recommendations.

 

You often see evolving science in other fields, it's just that a pandemic forces an accelerated process that's out in the open. A virologist circa the 2020s doesn't have the luxury of taking years to develop a study that will hold up for decades, like an astronomer's might. And the sooner you understand that, the sooner you understand why changing stances on masks, vaccines and the virus itself don't do much to tarnish the related science.

[tikker]

Netherlands is opening up largely again tomorrow. Shops, cultural sector, catering sector etc. all allowed open till 22:00, sports matches with audience allowed again etc. ... fingers crossed.

[adarw]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:32 PM, IkeaGnome said:

 

wow, the us is really devided between 2 groups. its quite depressing.

[dalekphalm]

11 hours ago, adarw said:

wow, the us is really devided between 2 groups. its quite depressing.

Unfortunately, like many things in the US - it became politicized. And once that happened, large chunks of the population simply took sides.

 

Getting vaccinated isn't political - it's smart. Doesn't matter whether you believe in bodily autonomy or personal freedom, etc. Every bit helps, and with such low risk of serious side effects from the vaccines, it's really silly to avoid them unless you're one of the tiny tiny amount of people with a legit medical exemption.

[PhantomJaguarr]

I got the paid 14 days when I had to leave work right before this ran out. But now it's reinstated in CA.

 

Quote

California will require businesses to provide workers who are recovering from the coronavirus, or are caring for infected family members, with as much as two weeks of supplemental paid sick leave, under a deal announced on Tuesday by Gov. Gavin Newsom and legislative leaders in the state.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/25/us/politics/paid-sick-leave-ca-california.html

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:20 PM, Commodus said:

It feels like you (and plenty of others, to be fair) have a misunderstanding of how the scientific process works. Many seem to act as if scientists should have all the answers right away, that they should be in perfect lockstep, and that things which were initially valid will never have to change. 

 

Imagine a world where it didn't evolve. 

Burning witches at the stakes, plague doctors, bubonic plague, and no electricity in 2022.

[Mr_Scary]

I had Covid-19 (#1), and (#3) as has my entire family, and all my friends. Everyone is fine as well. 
Nobody was hospitalized or deathly ill. Just like a 15 day flu. Some had no symptoms others had mildly severe symptoms.

 

The first one was a 15 day mild flu like symptoms, some days were bad, other days were fine like I was not even sick. 
My wife was only tried, that's it just tired. my young kids had very mild symptoms. My oldest son was sick like me.

 

The alpha one is tricky cause you don't really feel that sick. it just feels like a sinus infection or something, made me a bit confused, had trouble coordinating my job.  
Just felt like trash, but not that bad, but just bad enough to say I feel $h&^ & not want to work.
The worst of it was blowing my nose 100 times a day until it was sore.

Any way everyone survived, Even all my family and friends who were vaccinated got really sick as well.
In fact we were infected with the (#3) by our friend who was fully vaccinated and boosted, Her and her husband were sick for 1-2 weeks.. 
 

Deadly NO, Sucks YES..

 

[cmndr]

On 1/25/2022 at 1:20 PM, Commodus said:

For one thing, most masks aren't worthless — they did just fine with earlier COVID-19 variants. The problem now is that Omicron is so much more infectious that a mask that worked decently before might work poorly now.

It was understood back in 2020 that n95 masks (or equivalent) were an order of magnitude better than cloth masks. This is NOT new information.

The whole cloth mask thing was mostly government stupidity in the US.

 

Edit: 2020, not 2000

[Mr_Scary]

18 minutes ago, cmndr said:

It was understood back in 2000 that n95 masks (or equivalent) were an order of magnitude better than cloth masks. This is NOT new information.

The whole cloth mask thing was mostly government stupidity in the US.

It was very stupid, the fact I had issues finding P100/OV/AG respirator cartridge's for work, I could not do most of my jobs sawing masonry, I could not even find P95 with exhaust valve masks which aren't good enough for what I do, I mean from the beginning I was saying, these won't work, because they exhaust your breath through a valve, filter in, no filter out. 
Amazon finally let me purchase filter cartridges after a year I think. I was breathing in masonry dust just trying to make living. 

 

The biggest problem with masks, those blue Dr. masks, they aren't for viruses, they are for infections. You need minimum of P95, and P100 doesn't come in mask, it comes in a cartridge for a respirator.  

I decided to not wear a mask, and just did not care anymore, watching idiots use a mask for a napkin, and put it back on, constantly touching it. 
If people are so scared that they have to wear a mask, then why go into an ice cream store to get that special flavor, I guess it's worth dying for.

[Hairless Monkey Boy]

7 hours ago, Mr_Scary said:

...snip...

This is not data. This is anecdote.

7 hours ago, Mr_Scary said:

Deadly NO, Sucks YES..

Tell that to the 5.65 million dead.

7 hours ago, Mr_Scary said:

I was breathing in masonry dust just trying to make living.

That is super bad for you. Silicosis is no joke.

[tikker]

8 hours ago, Mr_Scary said:

Deadly NO, Sucks YES..

All the dead people would disagree with you. I'm glad you and your family got through it relatively unscathed. At the same time, that's how percentages work. Say for arguments sake there is a 0.01% chance of dying. You catching it and not dying does not invalidate that chance. Instead (statistically) the more you catch it, the more likely you are to suffer death. Now translate a 1 in 10000 chance to populations of millions or billions that will pretty much certainly all get infected and you'll see plenty of people die from it. And just like now your family survived, realistically they may just as well all had died from it.

[Quackers101]

59 minutes ago, tikker said:

Now translate a 1 in 10000 chance to populations of millions or billions that will pretty much certainly all get infected and you'll see plenty of people die from it.

and from area to area. suddenly a worse mutation could be in your place being 1 in 10 or 100, while another place maybe they had more protection from previous vaccines and other things that made it 1 in 100 000

[Commodus]

5 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

and from area to area. suddenly a worse mutation could be in your place being 1 in 10 or 100, while another place maybe they had more protection from previous vaccines and other things that made it 1 in 100 000

While I understand your point, a more harmful variant isn't likely to be a factor. Viruses tend to mutate into milder forms, not stronger, as that increases the chances they'll replicate. Omicron is dominant not just because it's more infectious, but because it's mild enough to spread more effectively than Delta and previous strains. If a more vicious strain pops up, it'll be quickly drowned out.

 

That's why, in some ways, I'm hoping there is another major mutation... that could be the one that really is soft and turns COVID-19 from a societal threat to just another illness that makes you feel lousy for a few days. I'm just not rushing to get to that point, since we need to protect lives until that moment happens.

[tikker]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

While I understand your point, a more harmful variant isn't likely to be a factor. Viruses tend to mutate into milder forms, not stronger, as that increases the chances they'll replicate. Omicron is dominant not just because it's more infectious, but because it's mild enough to spread more effectively than Delta and previous strains. If a more vicious strain pops up, it'll be quickly drowned out.

 

That's why, in some ways, I'm hoping there is another major mutation... that could be the one that really is soft and turns COVID-19 from a societal threat to just another illness that makes you feel lousy for a few days. I'm just not rushing to get to that point, since we need to protect lives until that moment happens.

Given how quickly Delta spread already and Omicron being potentially anywhere from 100% to 300% more infectious than Delta, I think it's fair to say that the difference in severity isn't the only and possibly not even the main reason why Omicron is spreading so quickly. Increased infectiousness is quite beneficial in overtaking other variants and simply being less severe wouldn't help you that much if you're not infectious enough to compete with an already established, equally highly infectious existing strain. If its infectiousness was equal to or lower than Delta, then given that Delta is/was ubiquitous there would be little reason for it to become dominant so quickly other than it maybe being a sign of large immunity against Delta, Omicron evading immune response or Omicron being more infectious. They don't really actively mutate in a certain direction like you picking what to do in Plague Inc. It's just that milder mutations tend to survive better hence the resulting evolutionary trend is towards those.

 

There's also still the risk of long COVID which we know little about, so "less severe" for now may just mostly pertain to the immediate risk. It's faster spread to our current knowledge, according to the WHO, comes down to:

1. Better binding to our cells, allowing easier infection.
2. Immune escape making existing immunity less effective
3. Different replication place and faster replication

2 out of 3 are due to increased infectiousness, with the third one being related to severity the most. A study on the last point does indeed mention that the less deep penetration may indicate lesser severity, but they do note that this does not immediately mean it's less of a threat:

Quote

At 24 hours after infection, the Omicron variant replicated around 70 times higher than the Delta variant and the original SARS-CoV-2 virus. In contrast, the Omicron variant replicated less efficiently (more than 10 times lower) in the human lung tissue than the original SARS-CoV-2 virus, which may suggest lower severity of disease.

‘It is important to note that the severity of disease in humans is not determined only by virus replication but also by the host immune response to the infection, which may lead to dysregulation of the innate immune system, i.e. “cytokine storm”,’ said Dr Chan. ‘It is also noted that, by infecting many more people, a very infectious virus may cause more severe disease and death even though the virus itself may be less pathogenic. Therefore, taken together with our recent studies showing that the Omicron variant can partially escape immunity from vaccines and past infection, the overall threat from Omicron variant is likely to be very significant.’

 

I think it's good that we're seeing less severe mutants dominate, but we're not out of the woods unfortunately.