COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Donut417]

Michigan has dropped its mask mandates, with the exception of hospitals. They are keeping an eye on the numbers county by country with the expectation of institution of mandates in the future. Im going to say thats probably not really going to work. But I guess currently the numbers are at acceptable levels. 

[cloneman]

2 hours ago, chocolatekarma said:

To people who don't want to wear masks or get vaccinated, I have this to say.  You're part of a society, wherever it is you may live, and there are many benefits to living in a society.  Society allows us to have a career/job, gives you easy access to food and housing, and generally makes your life easier in every possible way. 

 

What's the alternative?  Moving out to the woods, building a cabin, and foraging for your own food. 

 

So because we all benefit from society, when it needs something back from us, like wearing a mask and being vaccinated, or simply just following basic societal laws, it's our obligation to do so.  Life is about give and take, not just what we personally want or prefer.

 

That is all.

There's pleanty of rules that people don't follow as part of a society though, with very little government enforcement. If you choose to not wear your seatbelt, you'll probably get caught once every 5 years, and you can still go to work and travel. The problem with mandates is we are arbitrarily deciding to enforce something that is unlikely to slow the primary societal benefit, which is spread of infection. Opting out of free healthcare is a better option, for those who don't want the vax.

 

Quote

You cannot subsitute vitamins for a vaccine. Your article explicitely warns for that as well:

 

There is no data to indicate weather 2 doses plus Vitamin D versus 3 doses and no vitamin D. I never said vitamin D was a substitute for vaccines, I'm hypothesizing that it can provide  greater risk/benefit ratio with fewer vaccine doses.

The lack of any public messaging with Vitamin D, for me, is an act of genocide. It should have been included along with public guidelines on recommended distancing, masking, etc.

We did a LOT of things far more dangerous and costly than supplementing with Vitamin D during this pandemic, in the absence of absolute scientific evidence.

[tikker]

17 hours ago, cloneman said:

There is no data to indicate weather 2 doses plus Vitamin D versus 3 doses and no vitamin D. I never said vitamin D was a substitute for vaccines, I'm hypothesizing that it can provide  greater risk/benefit ratio with fewer vaccine doses.

Fewer vaccine doses combined with vitamin D still implies using vitamin D doses as a substitute for more vaccine doses. It is being looked into if vitamin D supplementation can aid vaccine efficacy btw: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8282476/

 

So far nothing concrete about it can be said it seems: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34445700/

Quote

Vitamin D enhances the innate immunity needed to fight COVID-19 by activating Toll-2 receptors.
...
In addition, vitamin D attenuates the release of proinflammatory cytokines by CD4+ T cells through the signaling of nuclear factor B, thereby inhibiting the development of a cytokine storm. Vitamin D increases the bioavailability and expression of soluble ACE2, which can lead to the entrapment and inactivation of the virus. Vitamin D inhibits renin expression and serves as a negative RAS regulator [47]. Therefore, vitamin D supplements may contribute to the effectiveness of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine in clinical scenarios. However, this speculation warrants further investigation.

 

A vaccine is easier than a sustained change in most people's activities and diets to up their vitamin D intake, however, making vitamin D a longer-term goal. The consensus as far as I can tell is still vaccine as primary treatment  and vitamin D as an adjuvant. As the old saying goes: prevention is better than cure.

 

17 hours ago, cloneman said:

The lack of any public messaging with Vitamin D, for me, is an act of genocide.

That's a bit on the extreme... I guess we should charge everyone refusing the vaccine without good reason with voluntary manslaughter then? I agree educating people on it being a ubiquitous deficiency and encouraging people to get it checked and making sure they are replelte, but let's not equate it to actively murdering selective populations...

 

17 hours ago, cloneman said:

We did a LOT of things far more dangerous and costly than supplementing with Vitamin D during this pandemic, in the absence of absolute scientific evidence.

Could you elaborate?

[WkdPaul]

19 hours ago, cloneman said:

There's pleanty of rules that people don't follow as part of a society though, with very little government enforcement. If you choose to not wear your seatbelt, you'll probably get caught once every 5 years, and you can still go to work and travel.

 

Very poor analogy, being willingly unvaccinated isn't like not wearing a seatbelt, it's more like driving drunk ; When something happens, you're a lot more likely to hurt someone else on top of yourself.

 

 

19 hours ago, cloneman said:

The problem with mandates is we are arbitrarily deciding to enforce something that is unlikely to slow the primary societal benefit, which is spread of infection.

 

? Not sure what you mean, the main mandates (masks, social distancing, and vaccines) have hard numbers behind them showing it works. It's not 100% and that was never the intention, but it does reduces risks.

 

 

19 hours ago, cloneman said:

Opting out of free healthcare is a better option, for those who don't want the vax.

While I find people unwilling to get vaccinated rather selfish, "kicking" them out of our healthcare isn't a good idea IMO.

[HM-2]

On 2/18/2022 at 9:10 AM, cloneman said:

The Israel Data just came in. People with insufficient vitamin D were 14x more likely to have severe disease. They also controlled for a bunch of other factors  that previously caused critics to question their study.

The study affirms that patients with Vitamin D deficiency had worse prognosis than those who weren't deficient, which is a bit like saying that water is wet. Moreover, Vitamin D deficiency is most common in people with other serious health conditions, many of which are significant comorbidity factors with Covid-19. As the study says:

 

"There are several important limitations of the study. First, vitamin D deficiency can be one indication of a wide range of chronic health conditions or behavioral factors that simultaneously increase COVID-19 disease severity and mortality risks. For example, COPD is a known risk factor for poorer COVID-19 outcomes with or without concurrent vitamin D deficiency"

 

Additionally, it's worth noting that Covid-19 prognosis amongst the group with the highest Vitamin D intake ("high normal") was not better than amongst the group with a lower but "adequate" intake.

[Andreas Lilja]

No more mask mandate in QC soon.

 

*cries in healthcare*

 

They better not take my huge life changing $1.20 bonus. 

[Andreas Lilja]

Page four. 

 

Dammit Russia. 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

Ontario is ending nearly all mandates soon.

 

The Vaccine Passport system was removed at the beginning of March, along with a host of reductions for capacity limits, etc.

 

Mask mandate is supposed to end on the 21st of March, though the specifics have yet to be announced.

 

Businesses will have the ability to choose to continue with their own specific mandates and policies (eg: requiring masks still). There's one local movie theatre that's still enforcing the vaccine passport for example.

 

Interesting to see the people who were yelling at the top of their lungs for "freedom of choice", but the moment a business decides to exercise that freedom, they get attacked by said people yelling at the top of their lungs.

[tkitch]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:34 PM, WkdPaul said:

While I find people unwilling to get vaccinated rather selfish, "kicking" them out of our healthcare isn't a good idea IMO.

I wouldn't kick people out of healthcare, but at this point if they get COVID and get super sick and are intentionally unvaxx'd?

Make them foot the bill for that.

 

If they end up in the hospital for something NOT COVID?  Works as normal.  

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, tkitch said:

I wouldn't kick people out of healthcare, but at this point if they get COVID and get super sick and are intentionally unvaxx'd?

Make them foot the bill for that.

 

If they end up in the hospital for something NOT COVID?  Works as normal.  

This is for sure a righteous and "good feeling" idea - but it would almost certainly be illegal and anti-constitutional in most countries that have a healthcare system you don't need to pay for up front.

[WkdPaul]

50 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

This is for sure a righteous and "good feeling" idea - but it would almost certainly be illegal and anti-constitutional in most countries that have a healthcare system you don't need to pay for up front.

Exact, from my understanding, it is illegal in Canada.

 

I've been impacted by the unvaxxed flooding hospitals, so it's not like I don't have a bias, but healthcare shouldn't be conditional like this even if the people filling the ICU should've known better.

[Quackers101]

*creates yearly pandemic tax for situations like this to unvaccinated individuals that is not vaccinated that year or month*

(Unvaccinated then tries to fake being vaccinated) :V

[rikitikitavi]

Well, today BC drops mask mandate... given there are new findings about 'covid-brain'... great timing lol

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

[Andreas Lilja]

And they just announced that they are removing our (healthcare workers) 4% Covid bonus in mid-April. 

 

Shame I was going to retire at 35.

[Andreas Lilja]

So the 'rona is back in force in China, big lockdowns especially in non-essential factories. Assuming my Alienware laptop is going to be delayed. 

[dalekphalm]

6 hours ago, Andreas Lilja said:

So the 'rona is back in force in China, big lockdowns especially in non-essential factories. Assuming my Alienware laptop is going to be delayed. 

Got any links with details?

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

Got any links with details?

Its a bit unsure at the moment? Maybe? But there is some coverage about china preparing for a current outbreak. How big or what they end up doing? But if its omicron and most have not gotten yet, it could sweep through the nation.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-60703301

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/china-covid-cases-hit-two-year-high-with-millions-in-lockdown-as-outbreak-spreads

Edited March 15, 2022 by Quackers101

[WkdPaul]

26 minutes ago, Quackers101 said:

Its a bit unsure at the moment? Maybe? But there is some coverage about china preparing for a current outbreak. How big or what they end up doing? But if its omicron and most have not gotten yet, it could sweep through the nation.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-60703301

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/china-covid-cases-hit-two-year-high-with-millions-in-lockdown-as-outbreak-spreads

 

From what I've heard, it's Omicron (at least that's what the local gov are saying)

 

Source ; my wife and her family in Shanghai, I can ask her for news source but those will most likely be in Chinese.

[Commodus]

The Chinese outbreak sounds a bit like what has happened elsewhere in eastern Asia: they're good at keeping the virus out, but when it invariably gets in it does the same thing it did everywhere else... and there's a risk of complacency as people in those areas aren't used to significant exposure risks.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

The Chinese outbreak sounds a bit like what has happened elsewhere in eastern Asia: they're good at keeping the virus out, but when it invariably gets in it does the same thing it did everywhere else... and there's a risk of complacency as people in those areas aren't used to significant exposure risks.

As long as this isn't an indication of where things in NA are heading... Most Canadian Provinces are now removing pretty much all mandates in the coming weeks.

[Commodus]

28 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

As long as this isn't an indication of where things in NA are heading... Most Canadian Provinces are now removing pretty much all mandates in the coming weeks.

It shouldn't be. We've already had our big surge, cases are declining fast, and we're entering warmer weather that typically parallels reduced cases. I don't want to presume we'll never have another spike, but there are a number of factors in our favour.

[Andreas Lilja]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/03/15/health/pfizer-fourth-shot-seniors/index.html

 

Conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day. 

[rikitikitavi]

13 hours ago, Commodus said:

It shouldn't be. We've already had our big surge, cases are declining fast, and we're entering warmer weather that typically parallels reduced cases. I don't want to presume we'll never have another spike, but there are a number of factors in our favour.

And again as everyone gets relaxed and stops caring - the numbers might start climbing up again and fast as it happened after every lifted mandate.

The latest strain might not hit as hard, if at all (fingers crossed)... However, I do feel grim and I fail to see how it might be different this time - it's been a few days since BC is unmasked, and I already encounter an unmasked person coughing his lungs out in front of me while walking down the grocery aisle.

[rikitikitavi]

 

Domina (Videogame)

[Commodus]

4 hours ago, rikitikitavi said:

And again as everyone gets relaxed and stops caring - the numbers might start climbing up again and fast as it happened after every lifted mandate.

The latest strain might not hit as hard, if at all (fingers crossed)... However, I do feel grim and I fail to see how it might be different this time - it's been a few days since BC is unmasked, and I already encounter an unmasked person coughing his lungs out in front of me while walking down the grocery aisle.

There is certainly a concern that people will incorrectly interpret the end of mask mandates as "the pandemic is over, it's 2019 again." The consolations are both the modelling (cases might go up for a while, but nowhere near as badly as they did before) and that any future mutations are likely to be milder.