Citroën launches Ami, a new electric car as a service

[IwishIcanFLighT]

https://int-media.citroen.com/en/AMI

 

French car manufacturer Citroën launches Ami, yet another new electric car as a service.

 

 

Official video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74VfCw1FE2s&feature=emb_title

Quote

Brief:

• 2 seats, compact, 100% electric car.
• A battery that charges in just 3 hours from a standard electrical socket.
• No driving licence required (accessible from 14 years old in France), with affordable "À la Carte" offers adapted to everyone's needs.
• 100% online experience with a partnership with Fnac Darty, as well as partners within the Citroën network. Ami offers a global 360° solution for urban mobility, to make freedom of movement easier and suitable to a large number of people.

Pricing:

• Long-term rental: €19.99 per month (Ami Ami version; long-term rental of 48 months, initial payment €2,644, ecological bonus of €900 including VAT deducted in France)

• Free2Move car-sharing: from €0.26/min (subject to a monthly subscription of €9.90 with no commitment)

• Purchase: from €6,000 incl. VAT (Ami Ami version; bonus of €900 including VAT deducted in France)

 

Linus was right again.

[givingtnt]

Wait, no driving licence required?

How does that even work lol

[minibois]

Let's hope it doesn't end like those bike share options, where the bikes just flooded cities.

At least with two large companies (Citroen and Fnac) behind it, that wouldn't happen as quickly. Plus people of course pay for this.

 

I don't like this direction, but it was to be expected.

 

P.S. I like Citroen's attention to detail, by actually putting a driver in the car 

[pzspah]

Looks like a young Jean Claude Van Damme, that no drivers license thing is probably only available to certain countries where that wouldn't count as a car. It definitely would count as one in most countries.

[porina]

10 minutes ago, IwishIcanFLighT said:

French car manufacturer Citroën launches Ami, yet another new electric car as a service.

Still looking at the details, but this looks a lot more realistic for real people than the Nissan Houston thing.

 

7 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

Wait, no driving licence required?

How does that even work lol

It depends on the rules of the country. I don't know about France, but in the UK for example, to drive a normal car you can get a license from 17. A lower power motorbike is accessible from 16. There are some rules for power assisted pedal bikes too, but I'm not familiar with those.

 

I guess in France, they do not classify this as a full car, hence not needing a regular driving license, but there will likely be other rules covering its usage.

[IwishIcanFLighT]

8 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

Wait, no driving licence required?

How does that even work lol

In France we already have "No driving license required" cars for a while now. They only require you to have the Brevet de sécurité routière (BSR) obtainable with around 8 hours of practice. This allows you to use vehicles that won't go above 45km/h which happens to be the top speed of the Ami.

[porina]

3 minutes ago, IwishIcanFLighT said:

This allows you to use vehicles that won't go above 45km/h which happens to be the top speed of the Ami.

That's about 28mph. Also the range of the Ami is claimed to be 70km (44 miles). This is very much a city car where you're not going anywhere fast, but it will cover a lot of use cases and might be useful as a 2nd vehicle for some households.

 

Wonder if they could do like a "pro" version with a little more top speed even if that means you have to have a license. I'm in a less dense urban environment and some major roads have 40-70mph limits even if they are not very long. Someone doing under 30mph on those would not make any friends! Having said that, the design of the "light quadricycle" as they call it might depend on it having a low top speed, as that could reduce the amount of crash protection requirements it needs to meet. The faster you go, the more regulations they might throw at it.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, IwishIcanFLighT said:

In France we already have "No driving license required" cars for a while now. They only require you to have the Brevet de sécurité routière (BSR) obtainable with around 8 hours of practice. This allows you to use vehicles that won't go above 45km/h which happens to be the top speed of the Ami.

This is stupid. So what if you can't go faster than 45km/h, you're still part of the traffic and you should have proper learning to drive according to road rules/laws, even if you can't go faster.

[LeSheen]

1 hour ago, IwishIcanFLighT said:

In France we already have "No driving license required" cars for a while now. They only require you to have the Brevet de sécurité routière (BSR) obtainable with around 8 hours of practice. This allows you to use vehicles that won't go above 45km/h which happens to be the top speed of the Ami.

I think it's the same here in Belgium. But I still think it's a bad regulation. Every driver should have a license. Also a bit weird to have the top speed at 45, since urban area's almost always have a top speed of 50...

[RejZoR]

6 minutes ago, LeSheen said:

I think it's the same here in Belgium. But I still think it's a bad regulation. Every driver should have a license. Also a bit weird to have the top speed at 45, since urban area's almost always have a top speed of 50...

They literally exist just so they can piss off other traffic that goes 50km/h and you need to keep that weird annoying speed of 45 behind them. Especially with my car where I drive 50 in 4th, 45 is already a bit low. But if I put it in 3rd gear, it'll whine too much. Thank god there aren't many of them, but there will be apparently.

[Xkillerpn]

Go to bios bring multi to 70 now you do 70 , change the cooler to a AIO  

 

Jk actually it looks cool, I totally see someone geting this and geting that speed to allot more then 28.

[rcmaehl]

This actually seems purchasable for the average consumer than Nissan's thing. Electric cars don't require as much maintenance as ICE vehicles and Electricity is much cheaper. 

[suicidalfranco]

the one car that makes the tweezy look like a good option if forced to chose one

[Yeroh]

10 hours ago, IwishIcanFLighT said:

• A battery that charges in just 3 hours from a standard electrical socket.

And what's the real world range on it, 10 kilometers? I just can't see this being a viable option for nearly anyone. Out in the countryside, the range and low top speed are definitely going to be a problem. And in the city, well, why would you use this when you can just use public transport? It doesn't even have any notable amount of luggage capacity by the looks of it.

[Eschew]

My two cents, the two problems I have with this idea:

 

No Driving License Required

• The automobile pictured above appears to be a car.
• A driver's license and a minimum time spent on behind-the-wheel training is required to drive a car.

To drive what appears to be a car, I don't see a good reason why a driver's license isn't required, but perhaps another, more lenient form of driving certification is. Or, if absolutely zero certification or training is required to drive the car, I don't see how the benefits of this cars-as-a-service for a niche group outweighs the potential danger to the lives of every other law-abiding driver on the road.

 

More Individual Cars, More Road Traffic

This has always been a problem in Kuala Lumpur (city in Malaysia), but the introduction of cheap ride-hailing services (I'll abbreviate it to RHS) has made traffic absolutely ridiculous. First, the city center has few parking spots, and most parking areas charge exorbitant prices just for existing in the city. This means RHS drivers will either stop in spots meant for long-term parking and deny actual parkers of parking spots or aimlessly mill about the already congested roads, waiting for clients. Also, while RHS sounds pretty on paper (ride-sharing), most of the time they just act like taxis -- one passenger (plus driver) per car. It's no different from taking your own car to work, except you don't have to pay attention to the driving and you don't have to split a migraine trying to find parking.

 

Adding cars-as-a-service means adding more cars to the road -- tiny cars that seat a maximim of two people -- which is only going to aggrevate the road traffic problem in congested cities.

[poochyena]

14 hours ago, RejZoR said:

This is stupid. So what if you can't go faster than 45km/h, you're still part of the traffic and you should have proper learning to drive according to road rules/laws, even if you can't go faster.

 

13 hours ago, LeSheen said:

I think it's the same here in Belgium. But I still think it's a bad regulation. Every driver should have a license. Also a bit weird to have the top speed at 45, since urban area's almost always have a top speed of 50...

 

15 hours ago, givingtnt said:

Wait, no driving licence required?

How does that even work lol

Have you guys never heard of a golf cart or ATV before? A slow 4 wheeled vehicle that doesn't require a license to drive is nothing new at all.

[Eschew]

12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Have you guys never heard of a golf cart or ATV before? A slow 4 wheeled vehicle that doesn't require a license to drive is nothing new at all.

You have a valid point noting that a person doesn't need a license to drive a golf cart or all-terrain vehicle. I think there are a few differences to note here, though:

• I believe protective gear (e.g. helmets) are required or at the very least strongly encouraged for ATVs. The rider may not need a license, but it doesn't mean he/she will never get into an accident. An irresponsible driver might even abuse the vehicle or try to push it past its limits.
• Both vehicles are usually driven in areas where traffic is sparse (golf courts, desolate/marked-off terrain). By contrast, the car pictured above seems like it will be driven on public roads, in the midst of normal traffic. An unlicensed driver would be oblivious to the road rules every licensed driver has been exposed to, and this obliviousness could endanger pedestrians and/or other drivers.

(I admit I haven't read the linked articles, so I don't know the full specs of the Ami vehicle.)

[givingtnt]

44 minutes ago, poochyena said:

 

 

Have you guys never heard of a golf cart or ATV before? A slow 4 wheeled vehicle that doesn't require a license to drive is nothing new at all.

Those aren't driven on roads, also. ATVs here do require licence. Heck, maybe even golf carts.

[SenKa]

1 hour ago, givingtnt said:

Those aren't driven on roads, also. ATVs here do require licence. Heck, maybe even golf carts.

Varies based off state here in the US. In my state you need one for a golf cart but not an ATV

[RejZoR]

6 hours ago, Yeroh said:

And what's the real world range on it, 10 kilometers? I just can't see this being a viable option for nearly anyone. Out in the countryside, the range and low top speed are definitely going to be a problem. And in the city, well, why would you use this when you can just use public transport? It doesn't even have any notable amount of luggage capacity by the looks of it.

Americans need "special" higher voltage sockets to charge faster. Europe uses 220-240V as standard. We use 230V which gives you over 3.6kW charging (16A). USA on the other hand, even on highest current sockets (20A) can only achieve 2.4kW because of lower voltage of 120V. That's a quite hefty difference, to a point where normal wall sockets are actually usable in Europe for EV's and in America it just takes way too long and you better have those higher voltage ones available or rely on high current charge stations.

 

The rated range of AMI is up to 70 km (43.5 miles). Which is alright for city commuting and people going to work in the city from the suburbs or near countryside. What will be the real problem are winters in Europe that essentially halve the battery range. 35 km (21.75 miles) is not much then and you'd have to charge it daily, possibly several times a day. Though it's doable at those charging times. And even at purchase price of 6000€ it's not really terrible despite size. It's at least affordable because normal sized EV hatchbacks all cost over 30k € which is above and beyond what most can even afford.

 

What baffles me a bit is why they can't make an EV that's the size of VW Polo, Toyota Yaris or Hyundai i20 (hell, even something the size of VW Up! or Hyundai i10 would do better than this toy), with higher top speed, range of around 200 km and a price tag of roughly 10-12k €. That would be classic petrol hatchback price territory and I'm fairly certain that would convince me to go EV. Any current hatchback EV (Nissan Leaf, Hyundai Ioniq/Kona or even Renault Zoe) is just beyond what i can afford or make sense to pay for at rather insane 35k € which is basically Tesla Model 3 price.

I just don't understand how everyone is harping about ecology and EV's and they expect EV's to replace 3x cheaper petrol cars. Even with higher petrol costs and services that are not on EV's, they are more affordable because it's easier to buy some oil and filters over long period of time than paying 30k upfront in one chunk (or even with monthly payments we're talking costs that most can't afford and actually still have living money left). So, there's that.

[Brooksie359]

17 hours ago, LeSheen said:

I think it's the same here in Belgium. But I still think it's a bad regulation. Every driver should have a license. Also a bit weird to have the top speed at 45, since urban area's almost always have a top speed of 50...

Not only is it a bad decision I don't get the logic. In more urban areas where tthe speed limits are lower it is honestly harder to drive and to make sure you follow all of the rules. 

[kokakolia]

@RejZoRThe Peugeot 208 electric and Renault Zoe are exactly what you described. But they cost over 30,000 €. 

[Yeroh]

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

The rated range of AMI is up to 70 km (43.5 miles). Which is alright for city commuting and people going to work in the city from the suburbs or near countryside. What will be the real problem are winters in Europe that essentially halve the battery range.

I agree that the 70 kilometers would be pretty useable, but given the usual discrepancy between claimed range and actual range on EVs, I'd assume it's closer to 50 - add a hot summer or a cold winter and you're probably going to see an even steeper decline in range due to the AC or heater. That significantly reduces its usability. Even people from the suburbs would have to make sure that their employer provides them with a way to charge, which I know at least I would have a problem with.

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

And even at purchase price of 6000€ it's not really terrible despite size.

The price is okay, but as you said, a used VW Up! can be had in the 5000€ range, and that's a lot more car for the money given the range and top speed (can't believe I'd ever say that about the Up! of all things).

[Curious Pineapple]

20 hours ago, RejZoR said:

This is stupid. So what if you can't go faster than 45km/h, you're still part of the traffic and you should have proper learning to drive according to road rules/laws, even if you can't go faster.

I drive a car that can top 100 MPH , tow a trailer (or 2) and carry 4 people just fine. I've never sat a driving test.

[porina]

20 hours ago, RejZoR said:

This is stupid. So what if you can't go faster than 45km/h, you're still part of the traffic and you should have proper learning to drive according to road rules/laws, even if you can't go faster.

As an earlier post mentioned, you can't just walk of the street and drive off. You have to have what is essentially basic level of training first. Less than a full license for sure, but not nothing.

 

It sounds like the UK motorcycle rules. You can apply for a provisional license (not passed test) and as long as you successfully complete Compulsory Basic Training (CBT) you can ride lower power bikes unsupervised. If you want to ride bigger bikes, you need to take the appropriate test and convert it into a full license.

 

Also I can think back to when I first learnt to drive. I think it was a 2 hour lesson. The first part was just getting used to the mechanics of driving and was done on quiet roads. By the end of the lesson, I was driving on the main roads like anyone else (if a bit slower). Of course, I had someone there with me to instruct. I think the 8 hours mentioned would be an ok standard. I can't remember the exact number, but I think the typical hours of lessons a car driver would take before passing their test was around 30 or so. From memory, the latter parts were mostly practice and experience building. The basics are picked up pretty quickly early on. Also in the UK, manual cars are by far the most common. An electric car wouldn't have the mess of gears for a new driver to worry about and should also help simplify things a bit.