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DoctorWho1975

More Intel leaks.. this one is not good though

W-L

Please don't bump or necro old threads. 

 

-Cleared/Locked-

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Posted · Original PosterOP

The Intel chip security level fubar is again rearing its ugly head. 

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

 



A fundamental design flaw in Intel's processor chips has forced a significant redesign of the Linux and Windows kernels to defang the chip-level security bug.

 

Programmers are scrambling to overhaul the open-source Linux kernel's virtual memory system. Meanwhile, Microsoft is expected to publicly introduce the necessary changes to its Windows operating system in an upcoming Patch Tuesday: these changes were seeded to beta testers running fast-ring Windows Insider builds in November and December.

 

Crucially, these updates to both Linux and Windows will incur a performance hit on Intel products. The effects are still being benchmarked, however we're looking at a ballpark figure of five to 30 per cent slow down, depending on the task and the processor model. More recent Intel chips have features – specifically, PCID – to reduce the performance hit.

 

This whole best case/worst case scenario is not good:

 

 



At best, the vulnerability could be leveraged by malware and hackers to more easily exploit other security bugs.

 

At worst, the hole could be abused by programs and logged-in users to read the contents of the kernel's memory. Suffice to say, this is not great. The kernel's memory space is hidden from user processes and programs because it may contain all sorts of secrets, such as passwords, login keys, files cached from disk, and so on. Imagine a piece of JavaScript running in a browser, or malicious software running on a shared public cloud server, able to sniff sensitive kernel-protected data.

 

Thank you Intel may we have another?

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If that's true, it will throw the IPC advantage of Intel right into the bin, making Ryzen a lot more competitive.


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hmm interesting, soo XNU is not affected, correct? 

 

Edit: yup, MacOS's Kernel is affected as well.....

Edit: ..but it's already been patched; 

 

1 hour ago, Technicolors said:

sorry if this has been posted already (17 pages, wowzers), but apparently MacOS addressed this in 10.13.2 update, which was released December 6. 

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/03/intel-design-flaw-fixed-macos-10-13-2/

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4 minutes ago, Howitz said:

any class action from consumers on the horizon? i have an intel cpu and if it takes a 30% performance hit i request a full compensation of it and of the motherboard.

I doubt any litigation will happen until it starts getting abused in force, or Intel rears it's big ugly head and apologises with a full fix

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11 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

5-30% performance loss on all modern Intel CPU. Well, shit.

I'd take that number with a huge shovel of salt. I mean, we don't have that many benchmarks (if any?) and the range is massive so it's hard to make any generalizations. 

It is not looking good though. 

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1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I'd take that number with a huge shovel of salt. I mean, we don't have that many benchmarks (if any?) and the range is massive so it's hard to make any generalizations. 

It is not looking good though. 

 

Quote

KAISER will affect performance for anything that does system calls or interrupts: everything. Just the new instructions (CR3 manipulation) add a few hundred cycles to a syscall or interrupt. Most workloads that we have run show single-digit regressions. 5% is a good round number for what is typical. The worst we have seen is a roughly 30% regression on a loopback networking test that did a ton of syscalls and context switches.

https://lwn.net/Articles/738975/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_page-table_isolation

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amd probably has a huge smile on their face as it undermines one of the things people use keep selling intel cpus for server and pro markets, reliability.

it also reduces intel's perf, and with the way games work, games might see big perf hits as they have loads of context switching 

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Good news for AMD, considering they are actually not affected by this.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2

 

A 5 to 30% performance hit depending on the application, can have massive repercussion for Intel, especially in large servers.


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Well my 2016 MacBook Pro seems buggered, potentially my Desktop too since its rather old (4690k).......Guess I'm in fight the update mode. No security patch is worth 30% of my performance. If its 5% that's ok but this is insane regardless. 

 

AMD is going to love all of this, (their stock is up today)

 

Long Live AMD!


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Ouch... This looks a lot like phenom's TLB bug


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No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.


Workstation Rig:
CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


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CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

No security patch is worth 30% of my performance.

So.... You want a 30% (max) faster computer, over your bank account when a malicious javascript can view your passwords? And the hassle of potentially every account you own being compromised


Fanboys are the worst thing to happen to the tech community World. Chief among them are Apple fanboys. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.

 

So running ring 3 data in ring 0 operations on any Intel processor released in the last decade at least is exaggeration?

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2 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.

This hits the MMU though. That's NEVER good


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1 minute ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

So running ring 3 data in ring 0 operations on any Intel processor released in the last decade at least is exaggeration?

Yes because realistically speaking this has affected an insignificant amount of users on all these 10 years, this is just a rushed fix because it finally grew somewhat notorious, I am to believe it will only affect older 45nm processors like first gen Core i processors to a greater degree.

 

Nothing stops Intel work alongside Microsoft after the main fix to optimize the whole process and regain every bit of lost performance back within months software side.

 

Just sit tight and give it time, gee... hardly the end of the world.


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CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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7 minutes ago, Ginger137 said:

So.... You want a 30% (max) faster computer, over your bank account when a malicious javascript can view your passwords? And the hassle of potentially every account you own being compromised

Yep. I don't store any of those things on my computer anyway. 

 

Not gonna gave to Intels BS if this is true.


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Well, my old laptop just became useless I guess. And my 4790K is going to crap itself. Man, I hope Ryzen+ will be good. If Asus will make a nice ITX mobo with optical out, I might upgrade this year after all. 


Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

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Lol. Looks like Intel may have cut some corners after all when it comes to their pursuit of performance. 

 

Considering I'm planning an HEDT build late this year, this adds another conundrum to the mix. 


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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yep. I don't store any of those things on my computer anyway. 

 

Not gonna gave to Intels BS if this is true.

You... do realize that typing in a password stores it in the kernel memory, if only temporarily, right?


CPU - i5 6600k | RAM - 16 GB DDR4 2133MHz | GPU - MSI Gaming X RX470 4GB | MOBO -  Asus z170-P

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