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More Intel leaks.. this one is not good though

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Please don't bump or necro old threads. 

 

-Cleared/Locked-

The Intel chip security level fubar is again rearing its ugly head. 

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

 



A fundamental design flaw in Intel's processor chips has forced a significant redesign of the Linux and Windows kernels to defang the chip-level security bug.

 

Programmers are scrambling to overhaul the open-source Linux kernel's virtual memory system. Meanwhile, Microsoft is expected to publicly introduce the necessary changes to its Windows operating system in an upcoming Patch Tuesday: these changes were seeded to beta testers running fast-ring Windows Insider builds in November and December.

 

Crucially, these updates to both Linux and Windows will incur a performance hit on Intel products. The effects are still being benchmarked, however we're looking at a ballpark figure of five to 30 per cent slow down, depending on the task and the processor model. More recent Intel chips have features – specifically, PCID – to reduce the performance hit.

 

This whole best case/worst case scenario is not good:

 

 



At best, the vulnerability could be leveraged by malware and hackers to more easily exploit other security bugs.

 

At worst, the hole could be abused by programs and logged-in users to read the contents of the kernel's memory. Suffice to say, this is not great. The kernel's memory space is hidden from user processes and programs because it may contain all sorts of secrets, such as passwords, login keys, files cached from disk, and so on. Imagine a piece of JavaScript running in a browser, or malicious software running on a shared public cloud server, able to sniff sensitive kernel-protected data.

 

Thank you Intel may we have another?

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If that's true, it will throw the IPC advantage of Intel right into the bin, making Ryzen a lot more competitive.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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hmm interesting, soo XNU is not affected, correct? 

 

Edit: yup, MacOS's Kernel is affected as well.....

Edit: ..but it's already been patched; 

 

1 hour ago, Technicolors said:

sorry if this has been posted already (17 pages, wowzers), but apparently MacOS addressed this in 10.13.2 update, which was released December 6. 

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/01/03/intel-design-flaw-fixed-macos-10-13-2/

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4 minutes ago, Howitz said:

any class action from consumers on the horizon? i have an intel cpu and if it takes a 30% performance hit i request a full compensation of it and of the motherboard.

I doubt any litigation will happen until it starts getting abused in force, or Intel rears it's big ugly head and apologises with a full fix

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Of course here is another question.. how many products balls deep in the design process is this hardware issue a part of? Could this colossal fuckup be present in the next 2 years of designs? More?

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11 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

5-30% performance loss on all modern Intel CPU. Well, shit.

I'd take that number with a huge shovel of salt. I mean, we don't have that many benchmarks (if any?) and the range is massive so it's hard to make any generalizations. 

It is not looking good though. 

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1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I'd take that number with a huge shovel of salt. I mean, we don't have that many benchmarks (if any?) and the range is massive so it's hard to make any generalizations. 

It is not looking good though. 

 

Quote

KAISER will affect performance for anything that does system calls or interrupts: everything. Just the new instructions (CR3 manipulation) add a few hundred cycles to a syscall or interrupt. Most workloads that we have run show single-digit regressions. 5% is a good round number for what is typical. The worst we have seen is a roughly 30% regression on a loopback networking test that did a ton of syscalls and context switches.

https://lwn.net/Articles/738975/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_page-table_isolation

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amd probably has a huge smile on their face as it undermines one of the things people use keep selling intel cpus for server and pro markets, reliability.

it also reduces intel's perf, and with the way games work, games might see big perf hits as they have loads of context switching 

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Good news for AMD, considering they are actually not affected by this.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/12/27/2

 

A 5 to 30% performance hit depending on the application, can have massive repercussion for Intel, especially in large servers.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700x / GPU: Asus Radeon RX 6750XT OC 12GB / RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 2x8GB DDR4-3200
MOBO: MSI B450m Gaming Plus / NVME: Corsair MP510 240GB / Case: TT Core v21 / PSU: Seasonic 750W / OS: Win 10 Pro

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Well my 2016 MacBook Pro seems buggered, potentially my Desktop too since its rather old (4690k).......Guess I'm in fight the update mode. No security patch is worth 30% of my performance. If its 5% that's ok but this is insane regardless. 

 

AMD is going to love all of this, (their stock is up today)

 

Long Live AMD!

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
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Ouch... This looks a lot like phenom's TLB bug

AMD Ryzen R7 1700 (3.8ghz) w/ NH-D14, EVGA RTX 2080 XC (stock), 4*4GB DDR4 3000MT/s RAM, Gigabyte AB350-Gaming-3 MB, CX750M PSU, 1.5TB SDD + 7TB HDD, Phanteks enthoo pro case

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No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.

Personal Desktop":

CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K @5ghz |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock Pro 4 |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z490UD ATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: RX 6900XT Sapphire Nitro+ |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.

Luna, the temporary Desktop:

CPU: AMD R9 7950XT  |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock 4 Pro |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Master |~| RAM: 32G Kingston HyperX |~| GPU: AMD Radeon RX 7900XTX (Reference) |~| PSU: Corsair HX1000 80+ Platinum |~| Windows Boot Drive: 2x 512GB (1TB total) Plextor SATA SSD (RAID0 volume) |~| Linux Boot Drive: 500GB Kingston A2000 |~| Storage: 4TB WD Black HDD |~| Case: Cooler Master Silencio S600 |~| Display 1 (leftmost): Eizo (unknown model) 1920x1080 IPS @ 60Hz|~| Display 2 (center): BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 1920x1080 TN @ 240Hz |~| Display 3 (rightmost): Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 3840x2160 IPS @ 60Hz 10-bit |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro (games / art) + Linux (distro: NixOS; programming and daily driver)
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9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

No security patch is worth 30% of my performance.

So.... You want a 30% (max) faster computer, over your bank account when a malicious javascript can view your passwords? And the hassle of potentially every account you own being compromised

Fanboys are the worst thing to happen to the tech community World. Chief among them are Apple fanboys. 

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1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.

 

So running ring 3 data in ring 0 operations on any Intel processor released in the last decade at least is exaggeration?

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2 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

No need for alarm just yet, there always is plenty of exaggeration and drama around this kind of news on release.

This hits the MMU though. That's NEVER good

AMD Ryzen R7 1700 (3.8ghz) w/ NH-D14, EVGA RTX 2080 XC (stock), 4*4GB DDR4 3000MT/s RAM, Gigabyte AB350-Gaming-3 MB, CX750M PSU, 1.5TB SDD + 7TB HDD, Phanteks enthoo pro case

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1 minute ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

So running ring 3 data in ring 0 operations on any Intel processor released in the last decade at least is exaggeration?

Yes because realistically speaking this has affected an insignificant amount of users on all these 10 years, this is just a rushed fix because it finally grew somewhat notorious, I am to believe it will only affect older 45nm processors like first gen Core i processors to a greater degree.

 

Nothing stops Intel work alongside Microsoft after the main fix to optimize the whole process and regain every bit of lost performance back within months software side.

 

Just sit tight and give it time, gee... hardly the end of the world.

Personal Desktop":

CPU: Intel Core i7 10700K @5ghz |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock Pro 4 |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z490UD ATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: RX 6900XT Sapphire Nitro+ |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.

Luna, the temporary Desktop:

CPU: AMD R9 7950XT  |~| Cooling: bq! Dark Rock 4 Pro |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Aorus Master |~| RAM: 32G Kingston HyperX |~| GPU: AMD Radeon RX 7900XTX (Reference) |~| PSU: Corsair HX1000 80+ Platinum |~| Windows Boot Drive: 2x 512GB (1TB total) Plextor SATA SSD (RAID0 volume) |~| Linux Boot Drive: 500GB Kingston A2000 |~| Storage: 4TB WD Black HDD |~| Case: Cooler Master Silencio S600 |~| Display 1 (leftmost): Eizo (unknown model) 1920x1080 IPS @ 60Hz|~| Display 2 (center): BenQ ZOWIE XL2540 1920x1080 TN @ 240Hz |~| Display 3 (rightmost): Wacom Cintiq Pro 24 3840x2160 IPS @ 60Hz 10-bit |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro (games / art) + Linux (distro: NixOS; programming and daily driver)
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Oh well it supposedly has affected an insignificant amount of users so fuck it... ignore it, meh, not a big deal. 9_9

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7 minutes ago, Ginger137 said:

So.... You want a 30% (max) faster computer, over your bank account when a malicious javascript can view your passwords? And the hassle of potentially every account you own being compromised

Yep. I don't store any of those things on my computer anyway. 

 

Not gonna gave to Intels BS if this is true.

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
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Well, my old laptop just became useless I guess. And my 4790K is going to crap itself. Man, I hope Ryzen+ will be good. If Asus will make a nice ITX mobo with optical out, I might upgrade this year after all. 

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

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Lol. Looks like Intel may have cut some corners after all when it comes to their pursuit of performance. 

 

Considering I'm planning an HEDT build late this year, this adds another conundrum to the mix. 

New Build (The Compromise): CPU - i7 9700K @ 5.1Ghz Mobo - ASRock Z390 Taichi | RAM - 16GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB 3200CL14 @ 3466 14-14-14-30 1T | GPU - ASUS Strix GTX 1080 TI | Cooler - Corsair h100i Pro | SSDs - 500 GB 960 EVO + 500 GB 850 EVO + 1TB MX300 | Case - Coolermaster H500 | PSUEVGA 850 P2 | Monitor - LG 32GK850G-B 144hz 1440p | OSWindows 10 Pro. 

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Other tech: Surface Pro 4 (i5/128GB), Lenovo Ideapad Y510P w/ Kali, OnePlus 6T (8G/128G), PS4 Slim.

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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yep. I don't store any of those things on my computer anyway. 

 

Not gonna gave to Intels BS if this is true.

You... do realize that typing in a password stores it in the kernel memory, if only temporarily, right?

CPU - Ryzen 7 3700X | RAM - 64 GB DDR4 3200MHz | GPU - Nvidia GTX 1660 ti | MOBO -  MSI B550 Gaming Plus

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