The $32,000 Mac Pro Killer

[AlexTheGreatish]

 

 

 

Thanks to Seasonic for sponsoring this video!

Buy Seasonic PSUs on Amazon: https://lmg.gg/8KV6P

Buy Seasonic PSUs on Newegg: https://lmg.gg/8KV61

 

The Mac Pro is fast, but for 33 THOUSAND dollars we're pretty sure we can make a PC that is better in every way. Spoiler: we did.

 

Buy NVIDIA Quadro RTX 8000

On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/ujwV

On Newegg (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/uV06Lb

On B&H (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/BPpNrv

 

Buy NVIDIA Titan RTX

On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/SMpaUhp

On Newegg (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/cu8UJgP

On B&H (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/gV7wjbf

 

Buy AMD Epyc 7502P

On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/w6hIzwG

On Newegg (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/lEJgP

 

Buy Tyan Motherboard

On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/yIPi2O

On Newegg (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/rbtmB3W

 

Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

[Derkoli]

25 minutes ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

Buy Tyan Motherboard

On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/yIPi2O

On Newegg (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/rbtmB3W

Links are the wrong way around, Amazon leads to newegg, Newegg leads to amazon.

[THE ABSURD BIRD]

Great video, but I noticed audio issues in several places for example at 13:57 and 13:31 (hopefully this is is not an issue caused by my headphones/EQ). 

[AlexTheGreatish]

1 minute ago, THE ABSURD BIRD said:

Great video, but I noticed audio issues in several places for example at 13:31 (hopefully this is is not an issue caused by my headphones/EQ). 

I can't figure out what the issue is at the timestamp

[THE ABSURD BIRD]

7 minutes ago, AlexTheGreatish said:

I can't figure out what the issue is at the timestamp

Hmm maybe it is more audible at 13:57 (I edited my post to include this timestamp).

[Hunter259]

Sweet jesus that case is ugly lol

[Red :)]

1 minute ago, THE ABSURD BIRD said:

Hmm maybe it is more audible at 13:57 (I edited my post to include this timestamp).

it kinda sounds like rustling of a plastic bag or something like that

[Guest]

Tiers of Acting:

1) Tom Cruise

2) Blockbuster movies

3) Budget Sci-Fi Netflix Movies

4) This LTT video

5) Other LTT videos

6) you know 

[Commodus]

It feels like this undersells the Mac Pro somewhat.  Yeah, that Windows PC is a monster performance-wise (and you could certainly build a more focused system), but it seems like the Mac Pro would be better if you had more peripherals or had to deploy multiple systems.  You probably wouldn't want to custom-build several PCs for a movie studio -- Apple would let you hit the ground running.

 

With that said... Apple and NVIDIA, you need to bury the hatchet.  Although I think NVIDIA should be the one to give and let Apple have control over drivers (I believe that's the biggest sticking point).

[V12Merlin66]

Spoiler

 

 

[V12Merlin66]

Was this a bit overkill?

[minibois]

1 hour ago, THE ABSURD BIRD said:

Great video, but I noticed audio issues in several places for example at 13:57 and 13:31 (hopefully this is is not an issue caused by my headphones/EQ). 

I can hear it too (more so at 13:57).

That is I'm pretty sure the sound of clothing moving against the Lavalier microphone used.

[soldier_ph]

That Intro tho, good job.

[maksakal]

I've never understood corporate tribalism, certainly not how some would defend their brand to the death. I mean I can understand having a certain preference, but if you really like a brand the best thing you can do for that brand is be critical.

[CZTROLLOLCZ]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

It feels like this undersells the Mac Pro somewhat.  Yeah, that Windows PC is a monster performance-wise (and you could certainly build a more focused system), but it seems like the Mac Pro would be better if you had more peripherals or had to deploy multiple systems.  You probably wouldn't want to custom-build several PCs for a movie studio -- Apple would let you hit the ground running.

 

With that said... Apple and NVIDIA, you need to bury the hatchet.  Although I think NVIDIA should be the one to give and let Apple have control over drivers (I believe that's the biggest sticking point).

Wouldnt that be when you hire the guys like puget whod put them together and help you pick the actual parts you need (their articles on performance are so good)

 

EDIT: Would it also be possible to release the MarkBench, just to you know, see how bad my PC is?

[Commodus]

42 minutes ago, CZTROLLOLCZ said:

Wouldnt that be when you hire the guys like puget whod put them together and help you pick the actual parts you need (their articles on performance are so good)

 

EDIT: Would it also be possible to release the MarkBench, just to you know, see how bad my PC is?

There are solutions that could streamline things, I'm sure -- just that you can't really compare this particular rig since it's a custom build (and an elaborate one, at that).  There are certain issues that might persist, though, particularly I/O and design ones (the lack of I/O is clearly Tyan's issue).  On that note: who'd have thought that Apple would be the one offering more ports?

[JustWinz]

Oh man they went with the Epyc platform for the ram! 

 

"When in Rome" I see what you did there Linus.

[Luscious]

This just feels like another penis measurement contest for little boys.

 

If you want to step up to the main arena and hang with the real men why not build a system that takes advantage of what Windows 10 Pro for Workstation can do. You can max out that OS with upto 6TB RAM, FOUR processors and 32 graphics heads (8-10 GPU's).

 

Intel now has the Xeon 6250L - four of those would give you 32 cores running at 3.9GHz with a 4C/8T turbo of 4.5GHz. When a 32 core Rome part tops out at 2.9GHz and a single 28 core Xeon is even slower, there's an argument to be made where brute frequency wins over just throwing more (slow) cores at a workload. For single threaded tasks it's a no brainer.

 

Likewise a system with 6TB RAM allows for a RAMDISK allocation for use as a scratch disk. These are many times faster than even an Optane drive.

 

While Quadro 8000 cards are nice, a much better deal would be to combine RTX Titans with some 2080Ti's. A pair of RTX Titans with nvlink can handle all the gaming and monitor output while 4-6 of the 2080TI's can be used for number crunching or multitasking multiple jobs. You avoid the problem of no video output on the Quadro cards AND get better driver support since GeForce drivers aren't supported for Windows Server nor are Quadro drivers always game optimized.

 

Finally the case. 4U rackmount tower conversions are common so you have a choice of having it sit under your desk or in a rack. The advantage of having it in a rack of course is footprint - adding more performance will take up ZERO extra space. So if you want to rock multiple systems, water cool and even add a beefy UPS a small 24U four post open rack is a much smarter way to go. Those Mac "wheels" are an absolute joke.

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 hours ago, Commodus said:

 

It feels like this undersells the Mac Pro somewhat.  Yeah, that Windows PC is a monster performance-wise (and you could certainly build a more focused system), but it seems like the Mac Pro would be better if you had more peripherals or had to deploy multiple systems.  You probably wouldn't want to custom-build several PCs for a movie studio -- Apple would let you hit the ground running.

 

What do you mean if you have more peripherals? There’s always pci cards,

and for displays, add another gpu?

 

mac pro isn’t great unless you need Mac OS. sure you can get 1tb ram, but when would you need that? Even 8k video editing doesn’t use 1tb of ram, at every price point you can get something better unless you need Mac OS, in which case, Hackintosh! And If you don’t want someone to do it,  pay someone! 

[Michael McChesney]

 I would have enjoyed seeing how each system would have compared at folding@home.  Maybe you could have installed the software in each system and compared the points earned after 24 hours.  I think it would not only be an interesting comparison, but would earn points for the LTT Team, and most importantly advance medical research and possibly find a Covid 19 cure/vaccine a bit faster.  

[Commodus]

47 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

What do you mean if you have more peripherals? There’s always pci cards,

and for displays, add another gpu?

 

mac pro isn’t great unless you need Mac OS. sure you can get 1tb ram, but when would you need that? Even 8k video editing doesn’t use 1tb of ram, at every price point you can get something better unless you need Mac OS, in which case, Hackintosh! And If you don’t want someone to do it,  pay someone! 

External peripherals, too... you know, Thunderbolt drives, external music interfaces, things creatives use often.

 

The Mac Pro is useful beyond the OS.  It's very quiet even under most loads (useful for previewing media), it's easy to access and maintain, and it's still damn fast at tasks that don't absolutely depend on core count.  And yes, people can use 1TB of RAM right now.  Intense 3D renders, simulations, machine learning... and virtual machines, definitely virtual machines.  Besides, remember that this system will likely be in use for several years -- you really don't want to be forced to replace a system just because you cheaped out on the memory options.

 

Also, you do realize that everyone who depends on a high-end workstation for a living will laugh you out of the building for suggesting a Hackintosh, don't you?  You cannot afford unnecessary downtime if you're in that segment, and a Frankenmac with potential compatibility issues, glitches and a total lack of official support could easily produce unnecessary downtime.  If you need a Mac, get a Mac.  It's not worth being a cheapskate when your profession is on the line.

[Woyta]

I think that LTT needs couple of thees puppies in their storage.

http://www.aquacool.cz/6xddr.php

http://www.aquacool.cz/4xddr.php

 

I got one used set for 4 sticks of ram and it is lot of cooper.

I don't know if he  produce them anymore, I would have to ask him. It is pretty long time. But his products were high quality.

[DrMacintosh]

7 hours ago, Commodus said:

it seems like the Mac Pro would be better if you had more peripherals or had to deploy multiple systems

That's where it actually sells. Easy deployment. Got a staff of editors that need new machines? Mac Pro is a single purchase that requires minimal setup from IT. 

[GDRRiley]

7 hours ago, Commodus said:

You probably wouldn't want to custom-build several PCs for a movie studio -- Apple would let you hit the ground running.

that is what pudget systems does

 

3 hours ago, Luscious said:

Intel now has the Xeon 6250L - four of those would give you 32 cores running at 3.9GHz with a 4C/8T turbo of 4.5GHz. When a 32 core Rome part tops out at 2.9GHz and a single 28 core Xeon is even slower, there's an argument to be made where brute frequency wins over just throwing more (slow) cores at a workload. For single threaded tasks it's a no brainer.

 

 

While Quadro 8000 cards are nice, a much better deal would be to combine RTX Titans with some 2080Ti's. A pair of RTX Titans with nvlink can handle all the gaming and monitor output while 4-6 of the 2080TI's can be used for number crunching or multitasking multiple jobs. You avoid the problem of no video output on the Quadro cards AND get better driver support since GeForce drivers aren't supported for Windows Server nor are Quadro drivers always game optimized.

 

Finally the case. 4U rackmount tower conversions are common so you have a choice of having it sit under your desk or in a rack. The advantage of having it in a rack of course is footprint - adding more performance will take up ZERO extra space. So if you want to rock multiple systems, water cool and even add a beefy UPS a small 24U four post open rack is a much smarter way to go. Those Mac "wheels" are an absolute joke.

dual 7H12 128 (64 at 2.6) or 7F72 48 (24 at 3.2) would beat the 32 core xeon golds even with their clock speed advantage and you get 8tb of memory

 

you need the VRAM for lots of workloads. Davinci reslove at 6K wants 16Gb of VRAM and at 8k wants 20-24gb. hell MI50 with 32gb almost make sense there

 

rack mount is the way to go but given they spent 2k on a case you could get any rack mount case you wanted in that buget.

[Letgomyleghoe]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

Thunderbolt drives

Usb c? Haven’t seen to many thunder bolt drives, I know they’re out there, but definitely not as widespread as usbc drives.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

external music interfaces, things creatives use often.

You can Hook these up to any pc.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

The Mac Pro is useful beyond the OS.  It's very quiet even under most loads (useful for previewing media)

Fan curves+noctua 1500rpms and a decent cpu cooler.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

it's easy to access and maintain

Got me there... some of cases are easier than others but not as simple, or anywhere near Mac Pro simple.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

and it's still damn fast at tasks that don't absolutely depend on core count.

Isn’t the xeons multi threaded performance worse than threadripper? Don’t quote me on this but I’m pretty sure.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

people can use 1TB of RAM right now.  Intense 3D renders, simulations, machine learning... and virtual machines, definitely virtual machines.

That’s true, but is also possible to have 1tb of ram on a pc afaik, you would need a custom/ server motherboard, I hate the “consumer” argument, most server boards are available to consumers too, just not marketed.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

Also, you do realize that everyone who depends on a high-end workstation for a living will laugh you out of the building for suggesting a Hackintosh, don't you?  You cannot afford unnecessary downtime if you're in that segment, and a Frankenmac with potential compatibility issues, glitches and a total lack of official support could easily produce unnecessary downtime.  If you need a Mac, get a Mac.  It's not worth being a cheapskate when your profession is on the line.

That is true, are there any productivity programs that aren’t made by Mac that are mac only, and would be a basis of choosing Mac? legitimately not sure on this one

Edited June 15, 2020 by Letgomyleghoe