[H}ardocp MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z review

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

More a jerk move of Nvidia, they should have ensured no cards were out in the wild before the NDA expiration date.

How? Not ship any products to distributors so on release day literally none are available anywhere? Nvidia can't actually stop people from breaking agreements like was done here, no amount of paper signing and pleading is going to stop someone intent on giving a product early to someone, especially if they think they won't get caught.

[Sakkura]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

How? Not ship any products to distributors so on release day literally none are available anywhere? Nvidia can't actually stop people from breaking agreements like was done here, no amount of paper signing and pleading is going to stop someone intent on giving a product early to someone, especially if they think they won't get caught.

Either let the NDA expire a couple days sooner, or don't try this preorder crap.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

looks nice , but is the fan issue fixed on msi? one fan not spinning

[bitsandpieces]

1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

but its still slower than the 1080TI and 2080?

so is the price

[Stefan Payne]

39 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

At the end of the day, this will hurt could and probably will hurt other reviewers, which is a shame. 

Yes, of course it will hurt other reviewers because the traffic is redirected to HardOCP because who is first is the one who gets the most traffic.

 

And to be honest: Did HardOCP have a choice?? 

They are already banned from official samples!

So if they wanted to get the Card, they had to buy them anyway.

So why not try to get a card before the official launch and try to release the review before the other people do??

 

39 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

NDAs disclosure agreements exist so thwt reviewers get a fair chance to test the card without having to rush something out the door to not be "late" with their review.

Thing is that with previous releases exatly that rushing and overtime...

From what I've heard some reviewers were complaining that they had like 2 days at most, maybe 3 to bench the shit and write the text.

39 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

This is just very bad manners. 

Maybe, but does HardOCP really have a choice, when they are banned from nVidia samples and pay for the samples anyway??

 

Why not do some pre release reviews??

[sazrocks]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, of course it will hurt other reviewers because the traffic is redirected to HardOCP because who is first is the one who gets the most traffic.

You're making my argument here.

Quote

So why not try to get a card before the official launch and try to release the review before the other people do??

Why not do some pre release reviews??

I've already written responses to these points, please read them.

[Stefan Payne]

11 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

You're making my argument here.

Yes, that is in English that HardOCP makes more money when they are able to prerelease the review.

The question is: Can they make more money than the higher cost of the Card???

Quote

I've already written responses to these points, please read them.

Your argument is invalid because you forget the $$$ aspect.

And why not make money when you can??

 

Especially since you have to buy the Card anyway because you blew the whistle on the Geforce Partner Programme garbage...

 

And that, to be honest, is something the FTC should have looked into as well and forbidden nVidia from doing it ever again because its anti-competitive horse shit.

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Your argument is invalid because you forget the $$$ aspect.

And why not make money when you can??

well, the $$$ aspect of it is good for Hardocp, but bad for everyone else as they loose traffic to their reviews.

 

there is a reason why people like Gamer Nexus do not publish before NDA even though they get their samples seperatly.

[Tech Enthusiast]

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Keep in mind this part of the review:

This is a highly factory overclocked custom cooled and built GeForce RTX 2070 video card.

1

Given i hate that website and the way they do reviews,... this quote is actually the one positive thing.

FINALLY a review that compares apples to apples. Not some kinda Stock vs custom, or stock vs stock (so blower vs real coolers) etc.

[Delicieuxz]

25 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

well, the $$$ aspect of it is good for Hardocp, but bad for everyone else as they loose traffic to their reviews.

 

there is a reason why people like Gamer Nexus do not publish before NDA even though they get their samples seperatly.

Reviewers should work together to deal with over-reaching NDAs and a solution that everybody is able to agree upon is ideal. However, to adhere to the NDA even while not signing it doesn't move anything forward and gives the NDA publisher exactly what they want and creates no stimulus for change. Not doing anything different results in things staying the same.

 

Also, reviews aren't just for the reviewers. They're for the people thinking about buying something. And since pre-orders are already open for these GPUs, there should also be reviews available so that there's something for people to base their decision of whether to pre-order on. Thinking outside the community of reviewers, H OCP isn't just catering to themselves, they're doing a tangible practical service for potential purchasers of these GPUs, which is a major part of what reviews are about.

 

I certainly think that reviewers should work out a solution together. But, if H OCP didn't do something like this, then nobody would see a need to talk about NDAs and how to handle them. And, I think that some people are only looking at the matter from the perspective of tech review culture and community fandom, and missing the practical part of reviews which is very relevant to a lot of people that aren't immersed in online tech communities.

[asus killer]

Not signing NDA's means absolutely no strings attached

Reviewing normal cards and not gold samples means it's much fair

You can't claim to serve the public and sign NDA's when you know Nvidia does it to screw people that pre orders

There is a point to NDA's, everyone reviews them with time and releases at the same time, but then make the process work before pre orders

It's stupid to create the NDA's and then let someone get a hold of a card

 

The process is broken and it's Nvidia fault, and i fell it's on purpose to serve their interests.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

Either let the NDA expire a couple days sooner, or don't try this preorder crap.

Well the pre-order bit is more of a side issue to that, NDA expiring before shipping to distributors would solve it yes.

[BuckGup]

Why does it seem like Turning is just Pascal shrunken?

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Hard OCP didn't sign the NDA, so they aren't a part of Nvidia's review regime ranks to be breaking them. H also didn't get the benefits of signing an NDA, so why should they forgo the benefits of not signing an NDA? Those who sign have their benefits and downsides, while those who don't have theirs. It's a choice.

 

Hard OCP also made a forum poll on whether they should sign Nvidia's NDA or not. In choosing to not sign it and not be a part of what the site owner views as a totalitarian review regime, H OCP is also taking a stand against that review regime.

There are plenty of other reviewers that don't sign the NDA and get the gpu early by other means. The ones I have seen that do that usually wait for the embargo to release out of respect for their fellow reviewers. Also if you think reviewers sign the NDA because they want a free sample then you would be mistaken. Not everyone has the connections to get a card through third party channels so most sign the NDA simply to get access to the card prior to release. 

[leadeater]

19 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

There are plenty of other reviewers that don't sign the NDA and get the gpu early by other means. The ones I have seen that do that usually wait for the embargo to release out of respect for their fellow reviewers. Also if you think reviewers sign the NDA because they want a free sample then you would be mistaken. Not everyone has the connections to get a card through third party channels so most sign the NDA simply to get access to the card prior to release. 

And not all cards, or products in general, are free. At lot of samples are just that and it's a mail chain where when you are finished you send it on to the next reviewer and so on. Gaming GPUs don't tend to be done that way but it can depend on which specific ones and how low in the food chain you are.

 

A lot of youtube is just smoke a mirrors, most don't actually have what they are showing off or have one and reuse it multiple times etc. Fake it till you make it right?

[Taf the Ghost]

45 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Why does it seem like Turning is just Pascal shrunken?

It's mostly just a bigger Pascal. We believe the 7nm Ampere will be the shrunken version of both.

[Syntaxvgm]

literally first comment on the discussion thread. 

[toor]

5 hours ago, sazrocks said:

NDAs also allow for every reviewer to have time to make a full and thorough review of the product. The correct way to publish early is for all reviewers to do it together, not screw each other over for clicks. 

Why?   Most reviewers (certainly the ones you see on Youtube), are in it for money.  I have no problem with them releasing based on their own findings, that is kind of the point after all.   The idea is not to get the _better_ results, rather consistent.  If it came out that one particular review had a higher score it would be valid to say their sample was special in some way -- engineering for example.   That in of itself is enough for me to discredit them later.

 

There are Other sites out there who have tested these cards..   If it's your first time with Linux you might find the vocabulary a bit confusing but on the other hand, you might find it surprising to know how well Linux works.

 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Reviewers should work together to deal with over-reaching NDAs and a solution that everybody is able to agree upon is ideal. However, to adhere to the NDA even while not signing it doesn't move anything forward and gives the NDA publisher exactly what they want and creates no stimulus for change. Not doing anything different results in things staying the same.

 

Also, reviews aren't just for the reviewers. They're for the people thinking about buying something. And since pre-orders are already open for these GPUs, there should also be reviews available so that there's something for people to base their decision of whether to pre-order on. Thinking outside the community of reviewers, H OCP isn't just catering to themselves, they're doing a tangible practical service for potential purchasers of these GPUs, which is a major part of what reviews are about.

 

I certainly think that reviewers should work out a solution together. But, if H OCP didn't do something like this, then nobody would see a need to talk about NDAs and how to handle them. And, I think that some people are only looking at the matter from the perspective of tech review culture and community fandom, and missing the practical part of reviews which is very relevant to a lot of people that aren't immersed in online tech communities.

They released their review not much earlier than the rest of reviewers. They didn't really give much of an advantage to consumers but a big advantage to themselves. This seems obviously self-serving and not some righteous move to help consumers. 

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, huilun02 said:

This is the best form of independent testing and is the most unadulterated means for buyer evaluation of the product.

So independent that there is no strings attached to Nvidia in any way shape or form. No opportunity for Nvidia to strongarm the reviewer into showing favorable results.

Why is it that today people expect the manufacturer to hold onto all reviewers with a tight leash?

 

Screw NDAs, screw all association and dependencies on the manufacturer. The most honest reviews are done without being forced into helping pad stocks or accepting to be gagged just to do their jobs.

I am all for having reviewers get their products without the signing if NDA but usually they still respect their fellow reviewers. I mean there are plenty of examples of reviewers getting a product this way yet still waiting for the embargo lift out of respect. 

[Carclis]

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Why does it seem like Turning is just Pascal shrunken?

I wouldn't say that. From a performance per mm² it's actually quite the regression. But that's because it's a whole new architecture that's focusing on markets other than gaming.

3 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

well, the $$$ aspect of it is good for Hardocp, but bad for everyone else as they loose traffic to their reviews.

 

there is a reason why people like Gamer Nexus do not publish before NDA even though they get their samples seperatly.

That reason is because they would have to compromise on quality. Honestly, what is here is more of a preview than anything. Only having 8 games combined with the fact that there are only 3 GPU's limits the usefulness significantly. I'm personally going to still look a the reviews that I always would for that reason.

I'm of mixed feelings about not waiting for the embargo release though. On one hand it's good because pre-orders suck and on the other hand I don't want other people who have the decency to wait on publishing their reviews to suffer as a result.

[exetras]

Good on [H], they got the scoop on this.

 

Who ever breaks the news, gets the biggest piece of the pie and the ad revenue. This is basic journalism these days.

 

The NDA equalizes the field for every reviewer that sign the NDA, but it also can screw them should something like this happen. Its a gamble reviewers have to take.

 

Note: [H] could now pass this sample card around to validate their findings.

[pas008]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Was going to read review, went looking for other ones I prefer to read... none to be found, checked back here to find it's early release of review so not going to read it. I'll wait, no line cutting thanks.

same here plus I cant read anything from this guy anymore

its from the same guy that bans people that disagrees with him

he has sprouted shit like a child millions of times about especially the death of the graphic card around a decade ago

now he is fucking other reviewers over karma is a bitch,

 

I find many comments here hilarious and hypocritical

screw ndas but we want independant non biased reviews and want it in chaotic time frame lol

screw preorders but every company does it, but its ok for amd

screw nvidia they are teh devil, but arent they pushing forward, arent they doing what millions of other companies do is protect their ip their name and push profits lol

 

 

[Hidden Orange]

5 hours ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

looks nice , but is the fan issue fixed on msi? one fan not spinning

Well, crap. I never heard about this and I just bought a MSI card.

 

I looked it up and some of the answers were faulty bearings or weird interactions with software including their own MSI Gaming App. Hopefully nothing goes wrong when it gets here.

[goodtofufriday]

I dont really understand the hate. The news business has always been about who gets the story out first. Thats literally the business.