I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't fix that - 2018 MacBook Pro and iMac Pro require Apple's diagnostics to be run for certain repairs

[D13H4RD]

Well, another day, another bit of news. This time, not so good ones if you are the type who likes to repair and tinker with your own stuff (pretty much a lot of this forum) 

 

Due to the use of the T2 chip on the iMac Pro and MacBook Pro 2018, for certain repairs such as logic board repair, it requires Apple's diagnostic software to be run in order for the repair to be completed and the machine to boot. 

Quote

For the 2018 MacBook Pro, the requirement applies to repairs involving the display, logic board, Touch ID, and top case, which includes the keyboard, battery, trackpad, and speakers, according to the document. For the iMac Pro, the requirement only applies to logic board and flash storage repairs. 

 

If any of these parts are repaired in an iMac Pro or 2018 MacBook Pro, and the Apple diagnostics are not run, this will result in an inoperative system and an incomplete repair, according to Apple's directive to service providers. 

The real problem however lies when it comes to people like Louis Rossmann and other third-party companies specializing in repairing Macs, especially those that Apple deems obsolete. 

Quote

Apple's diagnostic suite is limited to internal use by Apple Stores and Apple Authorized Service Providers, as part of what is called the Apple Service Toolkit. As a result, independent repair shops without Apple certification may be unable to repair certain parts on the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro. 

 

Moreover, when the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro are eventually classified as vintage products, meaning they are no longer eligible for hardware service from Apple, repairs through alternative channels might not be possible. 

Source: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/10/04/t2-macs-must-pass-diagnostics-for-certain-repairs/

 

D13H4RD's opinion

Personally, while I'm all for better security, I think this is one of those examples where security is too strong to the point of hurting even the good people. 

 

Yes, there are some shady people out there who run some of these shops but people like Rossmann are part of the reason why some of us can keep using older MacBooks for a much longer length of time before we have to actually replace them. I think consumers like us have the right to repair the product that we own. 

 

[Arika]

Only Monica  Apple authorized repair centers

 

Quote

For the 2018 MacBook Pro, the requirement applies to repairs involving the display, logic board, Touch ID, and top case, which includes the keyboard, battery, trackpad, and speakers, according to the document. 

so literally everything except the shell

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I think consumers like us have the right to repair the product that we own. 

But you don't have the right to demand companies supply parts, tools, or even design products to be easy to repair. At the end of the day, right to repair should start and end with you being legally protected from legal action.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

Only Monica  Apple authorized repair centers

 

so literally everything except the shell

Anodizing and repair of the aluminum can only be done at an AASP.

[PlayStation 2]

AW GOOD NIGHT IRENE

[Curufinwe_wins]

This statement doesn't make sense.... The t2 somehow is storing the faulty state as a failed post and thus prevents further posts regardless of circumstance until repair diagnostic is run? (That would literally be a disaster waiting to happen 100% of the time.)

 

Or those are the parts that have individual ID markers? In which case most surface mounted logic pieces should be fine, it's just the ones that have controllers.

 

I think we'd have to see attempted repair on all these things individually to see what you actually can and can't, because afaik these 'secure enclave-esque' devices are basically just storing registry information. In the absolute worse case, it is probably possible to desolder whatever component does registry on the 'dummer' of the repair items (battery display etc) resolder the original registry to the new component and fool the device that way. They aren't magic after-all.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

AW GOOD NIGHT IRENE

 

-1 for incorrect lyrics.

Spoiler

/s

 

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

-1 for incorrect lyrics.

  Reveal hidden contents

/s

 

DON'T MAKE ME POST EVERY ENGINEER LINE IN A .7z ARCHIVE

 

/s I'm way too lazy to even bother digging through the VPKs rn

[ARikozuM]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

But you don't have the right to demand companies supply parts, tools, or even design products to be easy to repair. At the end of the day, right to repair should start and end with you being legally protected from legal action.

We should and have done so. The automakers have to, by law, produce enough stock for 10 years.

 

You should have every right to ask for a repair guide. Failure to do so puts too much freedom on companies to do as they wish while consumers are left without protections. Capitalism shouldn’t and cannot run when companies have the overwhelming majority of power while the consumers have no recourse for service. 

[Drak3]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

You should have every right to ask for a repair guide.

That's not the same as demanding it.

 

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Failure to do so puts too much freedom on companies to do as they wish while consumers are left without protections.

It really doesn't. If you want repairability, buy from companies that offer it. It's literally that simple.

 

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Capitalism shouldn’t and cannot run when companies have the overwhelming majority of power while the consumers have no recourse for service. 

That doesn't happen unless the consumers do not care.

[Sniperfox47]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That doesn't happen unless the consumers do not care.

It's been proven time and time again that consumers don't care, even when caring is in their best interest. Your average consumer is uninformed about market conditions and neither knows nor cares enough to see the long term negative effects of their purchase. That's literally the whole reason why consumer protection laws exist in the first place. The "vote with your wallet" idea is fine in theory but completely broken in practice.

[desertcomputer]

6 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

It's been proven time and time again that consumers don't care, even when caring is in their best interest. Your average consumer is uninformed about market conditions and neither knows nor cares enough to see the long term negative effects of their purchase. That's literally the whole reason why consumer protection laws exist in the first place. The "vote with your wallet" idea is fine in theory but completely broken in practice.

 

So true, most people don't think about longevity. I know many people saying they hate apple product due to many issues but eventually go back buying more because they don't want to learn how to use new operating system (Android).

 

 

 

[TechGod]

30 minutes ago, EMC said:

 

So true, most people don't think about longevity. I know many people saying they hate apple product due to many issues but eventually go back buying more because they don't want to learn how to use new operating system (Android).

 

 

 

Apple products last for a long time though. Just because Apple has issues doesn't mean other OEMs are anywhere near better

[poochyena]

don't like their policies on repairability? just don't buy apple products. Simple.

[Rune]

Incoming pissed off Rossmann video.

Oh wait, his building recently burned down. Well....nevermind then.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

Only Monica  Apple authorized repair centers

[Rune]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

wait, what?!

Yeah that was a thing:

 

[Froody129]

This would be fine if their repairs were reliable and they weren't charging extortionate prices. 

[RollTime]

2 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

-snip-

 

My guess is the T2 is storing a unique hardware identifier for every component to prevent tampering, which just happens to also prevent repairs unless you reset the T2, which can only be done at an AASP. 

Nice one Apple! Another excuse to charge us more for basic repairs!

 

Edit: That's kind of what you said, sorry. You make a point about the controllers, and I'm eager to see exactly which changes get booted out.

[RollTime]

2 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Anodizing and repair of the aluminum can only be done at an AASP.

new: the T2 chip now detects the unique chemical makeup of your chassis to prevent tampering. Any attempt to change this chemical makeup will result in your computer automatically DOXing you.

[Nowak]

Isn't this, like... illegal? At least in the US and EU?

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

But you don't have the right to demand companies supply parts, tools

Dont be so sure, IDK about electronics but in case of cars manufacturers most provide parts (and special tools if needed) for their cars for a long time(IIRC 15 years, maybe more)...

[williamcll]

2 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

Isn't this, like... illegal? At least in the US and EU?

only in places where "Right to repair" is legislated.

[mr moose]

 

This really is taking the piss, there is genuinely no reason to implement any of this outside of trying to prevent consumers from going elsewhere for repairs/upgrades.  

 

I have yet to have anyone give me a good reason why every part has to have a unique identifier that apple can use at their whim to disable a perfectly operational device.  I can't wait to see how this rubs up against the ACCC.

 

 

[Sniperfox47]

This doesn't apply to board level repair does it? I mean as long as it's board level and isn't an SMC issue, will it really affect Rossmann?

 

Keep in mind that when Apple says repair in internal documentation they mean replace. A keyboard repair isn't a board level repair it's just taking the old keyboard and swapping it out with a new keyboard.

[Teddy07]

Apple customers are already used to getting screwed and they didn´t mind so far