Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[iDeFecZx]

2 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

So the first bodyshop quote came back for my car...time to find a less upmarket bodyshop!!

After tax/VAT, they wanted £1900 to repair my sill & jacking point, which is eye-wateringly high. I've not had bodywork done on a car before, and I know it could potentially be quite an involved job(E36's are weird)...but damn. The red flags started waving furiously again, when he wanted £550-750 to repair a small bit of corrosion on my wheelarch. We're talking only 1cm long on the inner lip, not a 'cut the whole arch out' job.

 

That's including paint, but it's also with the replacement panels supplied by me.

I told him I'd "Have a think and let him know", the polite way of saying "jog on ya thieving c**t"  

Im having that kind of luck but with vehicle wrapping places.

£300 to wrap a FLAT roof on a honda civic in gloss black? yeah fuck off with ur 20 quids worth of vinyl and half hour job

[Ross Siggers]

@iDeFecZx I'll do it for £50 and a Twix  

 

But really, £300 just for the roof?? At that price, I'd buy some 3M and give it a go yourself...

[Bitter]

2 hours ago, Ross Siggers said:

So the first bodyshop quote came back for my car...time to find a less upmarket bodyshop!!

After tax/VAT, they wanted £1900 to repair my sill & jacking point, which is eye-wateringly high. I've not had bodywork done on a car before, and I know it could potentially be quite an involved job(E36's are weird)...but damn. The red flags started waving furiously again, when he wanted £550-750 to repair a small bit of corrosion on my wheelarch. We're talking only 1cm long on the inner lip, not a 'cut the whole arch out' job.

 

That's including paint, but it's also with the replacement panels supplied by me.

I told him I'd "Have a think and let him know", the polite way of saying "jog on ya thieving c**t"  

Sounds like you may have picked a place that would do it right instead of do it cheap, cost and quality don't always equate but they often do. Shop around but keep them in mind, research some about body work, the right and wrong ways to do repairs, read more into their reviews and then make a more informed choice after having a conversation with them and with others that quote you. Discuss the particulars of the repair, their methods and materials, maybe take a look at some of the cars they've finished that are at the shop still. It'll cost more to get the same problem repaired correctly later after someone else did it wrong.

11 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

Im having that kind of luck but with vehicle wrapping places.

£300 to wrap a FLAT roof on a honda civic in gloss black? yeah fuck off with ur 20 quids worth of vinyl and half hour job

If it's so easy to do it perfectly, why don't you do it yourself?

[Ross Siggers]

32 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Sounds like you may have picked a place that would do it right instead of do it cheap, cost and quality don't always equate but they often do. Shop around but keep them in mind, research some about body work, the right and wrong ways to do repairs, read more into their reviews and then make a more informed choice after having a conversation with them and with others that quote you. Discuss the particulars of the repair, their methods and materials, maybe take a look at some of the cars they've finished that are at the shop still. It'll cost more to get the same problem repaired correctly later after someone else did it wrong.

So it's a bit of both worlds, hard to explain without going into too much detail. Essentially, the shop in question is proposing the most invasive, and labour intensive way of repairing the car. Yes, technically, it is the best way there's no denying that. But there is another method which is far easier, and when done well, wouldn't be any less strong. hell, it would be easy to add plating to make it even stronger than new, if you were paranoid.

The E36 coupe has a Strange sill construction, instead of having a pinch welds and box sections like many 80's and 90's cars, it has larger cavities. There's a beam that goes all the way up inside the rear 3/4 to the plastic trim line. The hole in the side near the bottom is where the factory jacking arm goes into the side of the sill.

 

 

And here's a picture of the entire beam, removed from the car. This is NOT my car, I'm sure a few of you can tell. But it's the same issue, the bottom of the beam has held water and collapsed. mine isn't quite that bent, but isn't exactly weight bearing.

 

 

SO.

 

What the garage intends, is to cut out the entire beam, to my count that's 8 spot welds, and 2 seam welds from the inside and outside of the car, including cutting away the lower rear 3/4 like in the picture. I'd need to strip the interior myself unless I wanna pay them £300 to do it for me. Replace it with a new one, and then close up. 

What I think, and what a few people I know have actually done themselves... is cut off the beam below the jacking hole, and weld in a new donor lower section. Of which I have two, both without rust. That's only 2 spot welds, and all accessible from the outside of the car. This should be plenty strong enough if welded correctly, and like I said above, if you're paranoid you can plate it on either side. 

 

What the guy said, is that he was not willing to even entertain this second method. His proposed way whilst good...would take twice as long, cost several times more, and replace metal that probably 80% of which was perfectly fine. He only seems to want my business, if it's 'big ticket' if you catch my drift. Maybe he can make a bigger margin from it that way, or use it as a way to show off the handiwork of his business on social media. Who knows.

[iDeFecZx]

33 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

@iDeFecZx I'll do it for £50 and a Twix  

 

But really, £300 just for the roof?? At that price, I'd buy some 3M and give it a go yourself...

Thats what im thinking of doing but im lazy and i have bigger priorities with it first

[Bitter]

27 minutes ago, Ross Siggers said:

So it's a bit of both worlds, hard to explain without going into too much detail. Essentially, the shop in question is proposing the most invasive, and labour intensive way of repairing the car. Yes, technically, it is the best way there's no denying that. But there is another method which is far easier, and when done well, wouldn't be any less strong. hell, it would be easy to add plating to make it even stronger than new, if you were paranoid.

The E36 coupe has a Strange sill construction, instead of having a pinch welds and box sections like many 80's and 90's cars, it has larger cavities. There's a beam that goes all the way up inside the rear 3/4 to the plastic trim line. The hole in the side near the bottom is where the factory jacking arm goes into the side of the sill.

 

 

And here's a picture of the entire beam, removed from the car. This is NOT my car, I'm sure a few of you can tell. But it's the same issue, the bottom of the beam has held water and collapsed. mine isn't quite that bent, but isn't exactly weight bearing.

 

 

SO.

 

What the garage intends, is to cut out the entire beam, to my count that's 8 spot welds, and 2 seam welds from the inside and outside of the car, including cutting away the lower rear 3/4 like in the picture. I'd need to strip the interior myself unless I wanna pay them £300 to do it for me. Replace it with a new one, and then close up. 

What I think, and what a few people I know have actually done themselves... is cut off the beam below the jacking hole, and weld in a new donor lower section. Of which I have two, both without rust. That's only 2 spot welds, and all accessible from the outside of the car. This should be plenty strong enough if welded correctly, and like I said above, if you're paranoid you can plate it on either side. 

 

What the guy said, is that he was not willing to even entertain this second method. His proposed way whilst good...would take twice as long, cost several times more, and replace metal that probably 80% of which was perfectly fine. He only seems to want my business, if it's 'big ticket' if you catch my drift. Maybe he can make a bigger margin from it that way, or use it as a way to show off the handiwork of his business on social media. Who knows.

Or he's been burned in the past with liability for a 'quick' repair and no longer wants to take that risk.

https://www.autonews.com/article/20171218/RETAIL05/171219991/did-insurer-pressure-lead-to-42-million-verdict

https://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/todd-tracy-john-eagle-collision-center-lawsuit-consequences-faulty-repairs/

So while it may seem silly to you, he may have his reasons or he's just a stickler for doing it the right way. Perhaps. While your repair isn't as drastic as 108 missing spot welds and panel bonding adhesive, there's the potential for it to come back on him if the over-strengthened area doesn't deform properly during a side impact or the repair collapses and causes harm to someone working on the car. When it comes to body structure I'm leery of cutting corners.

 

[Ross Siggers]

1 hour ago, Bitter said:

Or he's been burned in the past with liability for a 'quick' repair and no longer wants to take that risk.

https://www.autonews.com/article/20171218/RETAIL05/171219991/did-insurer-pressure-lead-to-42-million-verdict

https://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/todd-tracy-john-eagle-collision-center-lawsuit-consequences-faulty-repairs/

So while it may seem silly to you, he may have his reasons or he's just a stickler for doing it the right way. Perhaps. While your repair isn't as drastic as 108 missing spot welds and panel bonding adhesive, there's the potential for it to come back on him if the over-strengthened area doesn't deform properly during a side impact or the repair collapses and causes harm to someone working on the car. When it comes to body structure I'm leery of cutting corners.

 

Whilst I appreciate your point, there's certainly no crumple zones in that area. The only concession I can see would be the holes, which are there for weight just as much as...crumple-ability. If plating the sides of the beam was needed(which personally I don't think they are), they'd be no more of a safety concern than the thick walled, steel sleeve that the factory jack goes into. They both have an equal chance of coming in contact with a passengers ankles, god forbid I ever have an accident that bad  

Not to say I'm an advocate of cutting corners, far from it. But I simply don't see a compelling reason why the job needs to be as involved as they're saying it must. If the corrosion was more significant, well sure. But they're tampering with so much more of the body than this job requires, in places that are more structurally important; the top half of the beam ties into the inner sill, as well as the inner wall of the rear 3/4 panel. Now those connections would definitely add some body rigidity.

I'm meeting a local guy on Saturday, who came quite widely recommended from friends. So we'll see how that quote compares, and his thoughts on the whole issue too  

p.s. Not sure if it was intentional, but using the term 'burned' in the same context as those links was a tad distasteful
 

[AlwaysFSX]

5 minutes ago, vinyldash303 said:

I was thinking like, 38 or 39 psi instead of 35

50

[bcredeur97]

9 minutes ago, vinyldash303 said:

I was thinking like, 38 or 39 psi instead of 35

most tires iirc are rated for up to 42 cold. certainly wouldn't go over that.

 

problem is we have idiots who can't read the sidewall and think 60 psi is fine

[iDeFecZx]

1 hour ago, bcredeur97 said:

most tires iirc are rated for up to 42 cold. certainly wouldn't go over that.

 

problem is we have idiots who can't read the sidewall and think 60 psi is fine

Pretty sure most car tyres over here are able to be inflated up to 60psi maximum

[bcredeur97]

13 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

Pretty sure most car tyres over here are able to be inflated up to 60psi maximum

maybe the 42/44 whatever it is standard is a US DOT thing

[bcredeur97]

1 minute ago, vinyldash303 said:

the load range E tires on the dump truck trailer grandparents next door neighbors have go to 117 psi 

yeah.

Most people have little reason to inflate a tire beyond 40-45 anyway. I'm pretty sure the mpg gains are negligible beyond that.

[iDeFecZx]

27 minutes ago, vinyldash303 said:

4ply passenger tires go to 44 psi.

10 ply truck tires go to 80.

Don't remember what my 6 ply truck tires go to. They have 32 in them.

That's weird.

I werent far off

[bcredeur97]

1 hour ago, iDeFecZx said:

I werent far off

-snip-

michelin's sidewalls on their summer tires look sooo good

[iDeFecZx]

30 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

michelin's sidewalls on their summer tires look sooo good

Theyre pretty much brand new tbf

[Dash Lambda]

I've been wondering something about winter tires...

 

I hear that you just switch to them when the weather starts getting cold enough and you switch back when it starts getting warm enough. But I live in Michigan. Last week it went from blizzard to t-shirt weather to blizzard again twice. How the hell do you manage seasonal tires in that?

[Bananasplit_00]

4 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I've been wondering something about winter tires...

 

I hear that you just switch to them when the weather starts getting cold enough and you switch back when it starts getting warm enough. But I live in Michigan. Last week it went from blizzard to t-shirt weather to blizzard again twice. How the hell do you manage seasonal tires in that?

you keep the winter tires on

[Bananasplit_00]

Started the bike from its hibernation today, also checked the wheel bearings, swing arm bearings and the chain. Thinking the chain might be a little loose but thats about it. Started up better than usual as this time it actually had fuel. I just rememberd i left the fuel tap on so i need to go close that before the entire garage and bottom floor of the house smells like guzzerlino again and mom gets super pissed

 

*edit*

yep, there was a small puddle of gas under the bike, oops...

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, Dash Lambda said:

I've been wondering something about winter tires...

 

I hear that you just switch to them when the weather starts getting cold enough and you switch back when it starts getting warm enough. But I live in Michigan. Last week it went from blizzard to t-shirt weather to blizzard again twice. How the hell do you manage seasonal tires in that?

You don't change them. Winter tires can be used in the summer just fine afaik, just wear faster. Summer tires shouldn't be used in winter however.

 

Anyone got a correction on this?

[TVwazhere]

2 hours ago, iDeFecZx said:

Theyre pretty much brand new tbf

 

[Cereal5]

1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

You don't change them. Winter tires can be used in the summer just fine afaik, just wear faster. Summer tires shouldn't be used in winter however.

 

Anyone got a correction on this?

Any tire can be used anywhere. Not sure if I'd rather have summer tires in the winter or winter tires in the summer though, neither is a great option.

 

3 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

I've been wondering something about winter tires...

 

I hear that you just switch to them when the weather starts getting cold enough and you switch back when it starts getting warm enough. But I live in Michigan. Last week it went from blizzard to t-shirt weather to blizzard again twice. How the hell do you manage seasonal tires in that?

But yeah. They're called winter tires, not "only when it feels like winter" tires.

[Bitter]

Having driven Dunlop Direzza Z2's during a sudden fall snow squall and resultant road icing I can confirm that you do not want summer tires in the winter. I literally was sliding sideway on the road sitting stopped at a red light. That being said, I have been out in freezing and sub freezing temps on those same tires when it's dry and they're not great but can be driven on, I imagine it's what it must have felt like wearing wooden shoes. Also they're super sketchy when it's wet and below 45F, I won't take that car out if it's only in the 40's in the morning even on dry days.

[vetali]

1 hour ago, Bitter said:

Having driven Dunlop Direzza Z2's during a sudden fall snow squall and resultant road icing I can confirm that you do not want summer tires in the winter. I literally was sliding sideway on the road sitting stopped at a red light. That being said, I have been out in freezing and sub freezing temps on those same tires when it's dry and they're not great but can be driven on, I imagine it's what it must have felt like wearing wooden shoes. Also they're super sketchy when it's wet and below 45F, I won't take that car out if it's only in the 40's in the morning even on dry days.

I've been using my summers in the winter. Great when its straight rain. But with all the gravel they have on the roads during this freeze spree its annoying AF. I drive the Durango if theres a threat of snow. Easier than putting on my no seasons on steelies. 

 

This happened to me this morning when I went to work:

 

 

[Bitter]

25 minutes ago, vetali said:

I've been using my summers in the winter. Great when its straight rain. But with all the gravel they have on the roads during this freeze spree its annoying AF. I drive the Durango if theres a threat of snow. Easier than putting on my no seasons on steelies. 

 

This happened to me this morning when I went to work:

 

 

Honestly not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing or hearing.

 

The Z2 are most certainly NOT appropriate for temps below 50F, they can work but it's not good. My little no torque engine can spin them with ease which is something that should not happen, locking up the brakes takes very little effort, and I haven't even tried anything with lateral acceleration. I will say that my Li-FE-PO4 battery shockingly started the car after sitting out all day in 20F temps, I'm still impressed by that. 1/3 of the battery weight are the brass posts!

[vetali]

6 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Honestly not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing or hearing.

  

The Z2 are most certainly NOT appropriate for temps below 50F, they can work but it's not good. My little no torque engine can spin them with ease which is something that should not happen, locking up the brakes takes very little effort, and I haven't even tried anything with lateral acceleration. I will say that my Li-FE-PO4 battery shockingly started the car after sitting out all day in 20F temps, I'm still impressed by that. 1/3 of the battery weight are the brass posts!

I have conti extremecontact sports. Stopping distance is fine for me. Still wheel hops like crazy when getting on it. But yeeah I am really over the cold weather. We haven't been mushroom stamped by a cold wave like this in years.