UPDATE: NVIDIA backtracks - Hardware Unboxed blacklisted from receiving GeForce FE review samples over “focus on rasterization over ray-tracing”

[GDRRiley]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

GN to boycott NVIDIA in 1... 2... 3... 

look what they said

 

[GDRRiley]

3 minutes ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

I doubt NVIDIA is going to have RT to push in the future either, speaking that the console have big navi cores, and stuff will start being optimized for console RT

none of these cards have the power for RT in 3-4 years so you can't claim their somehow future proof for newer games.

pushing RT at this point is plain dumb but they are trying to show some angle

 

[D13H4RD]

1 minute ago, GDRRiley said:

look what they said

 

I have a feeling that they're all targeting HUB because they're one of the smaller channels of the big PC hardware YouTube channels. 

[D13H4RD]

9 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

none of these cards have the power for RT in 3-4 years so you can't claim their somehow future proof for newer games.

pushing RT at this point is plain dumb but they are trying to show some angle

 

Agreed, and it's the point I keep trying to make. 

 

Real-time RT will eventually be the future, but the keyword here is "eventually". It's still a computationally taxing process and we'll need another 2 generations and more support before it becomes more ubiquitous. 

 

As the owner of a Turing GPU, I'm quite familiar with this. 

[Athan Immortal]

3 hours ago, WereCatf said:

Alas, with the above in mind, I expect this will just be covered by LTT with...a brief mention in a Techlinked - episode and then forgotten about.

 

Oh come on now, it will also be briefly mentioned on WAN Show before being derailed to talk about water bottles, underwear or floatplane.

[realpetertdm]

 

[GreatnessRD]

Nvidia are some bitches. Jacket man should be ashamed he has a company full of pussies.

 

Be outraged at my tone. I bathe in tears. 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, WereCatf said:

For once, I hope the Internet does shift its massive rear-end and crushes NVIDIA on this. This kind of tactics of attempting to force reviewers to focus only on the things you approve of should not be allowed to pass and NVIDIA definitely would deserve to land in a torrent of hot water over this.

 

Alas, with the above in mind, I expect this will just be covered by LTT with...a brief mention in a Techlinked - episode and then forgotten about.

 

I doubt nVidia will ever be held accountable for things like this. It's not like there are 15 GPU manufacturers, there's only two, and if you're being generous there's three.

 

nVidia telling reviewers what to say is straight out of the dishonestly book. I don't royally care who gets to review computer parts, but the only reason why a reviewer shouldn't get things is because they simply don't review the products, eg they sell them.

 

[Orangeator]

3 hours ago, Moonzy said:

while companies are not obligated to send review samples, their reasoning for pulling out is kinda scummy tho

This 100%. If Nvidia wishes not to provide review samples anymore, it's well within their right. But if they are going to do it, either don't give a reason, or make up an acceptable reason... Regardless of the truth, haha. Outright saying we don't agree with your journalism and want you to conform to our review standards is um, well, bad PR to say this least. 

[shaz2sxy]

3 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

none of these cards have the power for RT in 3-4 years so you can't claim their somehow future proof for newer games.

pushing RT at this point is plain dumb but they are trying to show some angle

 

But if you don't push it now then how will you get progression in RT in 3-4 years

it doesn't just pop up out of thin air?

Current get 3000  series with Ray tracing is easily playable on 1080p/1440p which most gamers play at. 

[xAcid9]

I give it a week and nobody will remember this news, 3000 series will still sell like hot cakes.

I doubt LTT will condemn Nvidia for this move.

[hash02]

Very good points brought up by this video.
Linus should do a vid on this too.

 

[D13H4RD]

6 minutes ago, shaz2sxy said:

But if you don't push it now then how will you get progression in RT in 3-4 years

it doesn't just pop up out of thin air?

Current get 3000  series with Ray tracing is easily playable on 1080p/1440p which most gamers play at. 

It’s not really that. Everyone with a rational mind pretty much agrees that RT is the way of the future. Thing is, said future is a good few years off, and I doubt the 30-series (and especially the 20-series and RDNA2) will hold up very well as ray tracing inevitably gets more complex and thorough.

 

That’s just how it goes when you try to push something pretty dang new in the consumer space. Which is what makes NVIDIA’s reasoning perplexing. Rasterization is still important as that is still how the vast majority of games are rendered, and since RTX as of now uses a hybrid rasterized + ray-traced rendering method, you also need to have strong rasterized performance to begin with.

 

HUB and GN’s way of testing is perfectly valid. There’s too few titles with good implementations of RT across the board to focus more on that portion as of now. 

[Levent]

LTT doesn't get involved in any drama. LTT is like Switzerland during WW2. They let people duke it out but never get involved. 

[shaz2sxy]

Also it would be nice to see the actual email and everything in its context before jumping on any bandwagon. 

 

I just looked at the review for the 3070 

so out of 24min there is under 2mins of ref to RT

 

Now I don't agree with Nvidia and waht they are doing, but I kind of understand why they would be upset.

 

I know Steve at GN says his videos are similar but his graphs etc and time with RT is more detailed. same as other youtube reviewers 

 

[shaz2sxy]

4 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

It’s not really that. Everyone with a rational mind pretty much agrees that RT is the way of the future. Thing is, said future is a good few years off, and I doubt the 30-series (and especially the 20-series and RDNA2) will hold up very well as ray tracing inevitably gets more complex and thorough.

 

That’s just how it goes when you try to push something pretty dang new in the consumer space. Which is what makes NVIDIA’s reasoning perplexing. Rasterization is still important as that is still how the vast majority of games are rendered, and since RTX as of now uses a hybrid rasterized + ray-traced rendering method, you also need to have strong rasterized performance to begin with.

 

HUB and GN’s way of testing is perfectly valid. There’s too few titles with good implementations of RT across the board to focus more on that portion as of now. 

"Thing is, said future is a good few years off, and I doubt the 30-series (and especially the 20-series and RDNA2) will hold up very well as ray tracing inevitably gets more complex and thorough."

 

BUt you can say that about anything, even raserization? a card from 3/4 years ago can struggle with current games? does that mean they shouldnt have pushed rasterization then?

 

anyone with a rational mind like you say also knows that they won't expect a RTX 2 or 3 series card to play RT games as well as a RT enabled card in 3-4 years. that applies to Rasterization aswell not just RT

[Master Disaster]

11 minutes ago, Levent said:

LTT doesn't get involved in any drama. LTT is like Switzerland during WW2. They let people duke it out but never get involved. 

That's simply not true, one of the things I respect the most about Linus is if he has an gripe/issue he will always give his honest and unbiased opinion on the matter.

 

Examples I can think of off hand, he did that Intel video right after CES, he talked about Hardware Unboxed stealing case designs, he's called out Nvidia multiple times (970 3.5GB & when they tried to force AIBs to sign a stupid contract), he did the video about RED Mags and only last weekend he received some insider info on Dells sales tactics which he said he would do a video on if he could confirm it to be true.

 

He also called out Intel when they said AMD glued together CPUs then had to apologise when he found out that glued together was a genuine industry term.

 

What he doesn't do is jump into topics that he doesn't know enough about or that he has no business getting involved in.

[PeachGr]

If Linus have heard the viewers, he had to be against Intel, Nvidia, apple, Facebook and I guess AMD at that point, so everyone that has to do with tech.

Now the problem is that viewers could have no content to watch, but I guess that's secondary, right?

[Arika]

literally nothing will change. it's the semi-regular outrage over <company> being a dick to <youtuber> which makes <internet> go reeeeee for a few days

 

How many people still buy Apple products on this forum despite them screwing over LTT multiple times?

How many people bought an MSI RTX 30 series despite them bullying TechTeamGB and attempts are swaying the hand of GN

How many people still play Fortnight (or any other EGS game) despite Epic trying to sue a 14-year old?

 

 

 

[porina]

Nvidia risks some Streisand-like effect over this, but let's be realistic, HUB is not really a major player, having a niche following in the enthusiast space, which I recognise is what a LOT of us fall into on this forum. I love their testing, but I had to stop watching their content because their industry viewpoint was off the mark and they often presented things in a clickbaity fanboyish style that is really annoying. For similar reasons, I also stopped watching GN who do the same. Any useful information they could provide is lost in that.

 

It is also a form of entitlement to expect to be given GPUs in advance to test. It is a privilege, not a right. If they want to play the journalistic integrity card, they should NEVER accept it in the first place. Do what GN have had to do at times separately, and source through other routes, preferably retail, to maintain the separation.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

HWUB called RT basically a gimmick along with DLSS in that video, and only glossed over two titles, shadow of the tomb raider as well as dirt 5.
 

People who argue that RT and DLSS are a gimmick are the same people who defend the fact that 16GB VRAM is not lmao.
 

Anyway, I don't agree with what Nvidia did, The fact that they banned HUB but no one else pretty much tells it all, especially if you're not biased.

 

Everyone shits on AMD and Nvidia, the difference is that HUB consistently never showcases Nvidia's RT/DLSS. Yes, Rasterization matters but if a card has more features, why not cover it? Is it so hard to believe that we're moving towards a RT/DLSS era but you have to call it a gimmick? lol.
 

It's like doing a review on a brand new Nissan GTR, HP, speed but you know, let's not review the transmission or suspension at all.
 

^ see how stupid that is? That's HUB. (And before someone says it's a stupid comparison, just think of the first time paddle shifters became a thing.. and look at it now, automatics and paddle shifters, hardly any manual cars anymore)
 

[Jeppes]

17 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

HWUB called RT basically a gimmick along with DLSS in that video, and only glossed over two titles, shadow of the tomb raider as well as dirt 5.
 

People who argue that RT and DLSS are a gimmick are the same people who defend the fact that 16GB VRAM is not lmao.
 

Anyway, I don't agree with what Nvidia is doing but I couldn't care less. The fact that they banned HUB but no one else pretty much tells it all, especially if you're not biased.

Everyone shits on AMD and Nvidia, the difference is that HUB consistently never showcases Nvidia's RT/DLSS. Yes, Rasterization matters but if a card has more features, why not cover it? Is it so hard to believe that we're moving towards a RT/DLSS era but you have to call it a gimmick? lol.
 

It's like doing a review on a brand new Nissan GTR, HP, speed but you know, let's not review the transmission or suspension at all.
 

^ see how stupid that is? That's HUB. (And before someone says it's a stupid comparison, just think of the first time paddle shifters became a thing.. and look at it now, automatics and paddle shifters, hardly any manual cars anymore)
 

RT or dlss makes a meaningful difference in what? 4/1000 games and you think its reasonable to focus on that? RT on games is still complete garbage and only thing nice about rtx happens on some rendering software like Blender where even a 3060ti beats 6800XT with ease when optix is on.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

17 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

RT or dlss makes a meaningful difference in what? 4/1000 games and you think its reasonable to focus on that? RT on games is still complete garbage and only thing nice about rtx happens on some rendering software like Blender where even a 3060ti beats 6800XT with ease when optix is on.

are you testing 1000 games for all the older cards? did they test all the old games on new consoles are the ones that were launched with it that were on both? given RTX and DLSS is the main key point of the new cards, why would you not cover it? its in the title RTX, i am not defending nvidia here, but HWUB has been consistently shitting on RTX like  "old man yells at cloud" since better part of the last year. 

[shaz2sxy]

1 hour ago, Jeppes said:

RT or dlss makes a meaningful difference in what? 4/1000 games and you think its reasonable to focus on that? RT on games is still complete garbage and only thing nice about rtx happens on some rendering software like Blender where even a 3060ti beats 6800XT with ease when optix is on.

So do reviewers compare 1000 games? no they test latest games

 

It just happens that a few of them are now RT enabled so can and should be reviewed with that in mind

[D13H4RD]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

literally nothing will change. it's the semi-regular outrage over <company> being a dick to <youtuber> which makes <internet> go reeeeee for a few days

 

How many people still buy Apple products on this forum despite them screwing over LTT multiple times?

How many people bought an MSI RTX 30 series despite them bullying TechTeamGB and attempts are swaying the hand of GN

How many people still play Fortnight (or any other EGS game) despite Epic trying to sue a 14-year old?

 

 

 

I mentioned this before on someone’s status update here and on the Discord.

 

But what I think will happen is someone else from NVIDIA (likely higher in the exec chain) contacts HUB privately and goes along the lines of “kk sorry”, then everything goes back to the way it was before......then it all happens again. Rinse and repeat.

 

At this point, I really shouldn’t be surprised.