AMD annouces RDNA2 and Zen3 dates

[Helpful Tech Witch]

22 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

FUCK YEAH!

@Mark Kaine how was this imformative?

[Stahlmann]

1 hour ago, Helly said:

Well didn't think i would respond but here i am... I have a PS3 and played plenty of games on it... they never looked terrible to me and even there i barely if ever noticed the lack of AA. Besides, AA comes from the age when PC's could barely run games at a resolution like 1280x1024. The same argument was made then, making it look better at lower resolutions and it wasn't as impactful @ 1280x1024 or higher. So.... when is that argument actually true?

Just try it out. Run your screen at 1080p and then disable and enable AA and look at the difference.

 

1 hour ago, Helly said:

If this is true (not sure it is) then why do people bitch so much at consoles for having "fake 4k" when they're using it on their pc's as well... Always wondered about that...

Because DLSS is a completely new way to upscale that loses very little, if any image quality. The upscaling found on consoles doesn't even come close to native 4K.

[GreatnessRD]

16 hours ago, dizmo said:

Well...paper launch. You likely won't be able to buy them on launch day, and even if you can, historically it's only been their (really poorly made) reference design cards.

That's not the point I was trying to convey. I'm just upset we won't be learning about the AMD cards until so late, in my opinion. If I went the Ampere or Big Navi route, I didn't plan on buying a reference card anyway. 

[S w a t s o n]

8 hours ago, ONOTech said:

I'd argue that DLSS looks better than the native in some instances. It's perfect for consoles

 

I do think AMD will have a 3080 competitor (3090 I don't know), but the October date has some validity.

1. Radeon can't battle the NVIDIA hype train, so they're waiting for it to die down. Oct 28th seems reasonable
2. By mid October, AMD will know everything about the RTX 3070, 80, and 90 and NVIDIA can't make any last minute changes. They know their competition exactly.
3. AMD's name is not only plastered on their CPUs and GPUs, but also their consoles. Oct 3, Oct 28, Nov 10, and the PS5 launch dates are all AMD products. They're trying to make the holiday tech season synonymous with their name - started with Zen on Oct 3rd and ending with consoles by Thanksgiving. They're staggering release dates to keep hype up but also not overshadow other product launches.

I've seen variations of these 3 points floating around and I have to address them at this point:

1. Allowing NVidia the free PR instead of stealing thunder is not a good play. They definitely can "battle" it. They dont need to win a hype war, they just need to cut into the nvidia hype.The CPU/GPU vendors have done this before no reason they couldnt here.

2. Everything is known already. They can't ship new cards that fast, a super refresh would take some time. Pricing can be changed but if nvidia cuts, amd can cut. AMD will win the price war

 

3. Console launch will have no mention of AMD and the only people that will be talking about AMD in relation to consoles are PC enthusiasts trying to gleam RDNA2 perf. Lining up the releases doesnt actually increase the hype factor or mindhsare of AMD at all in regards to the consoles

 

 

At the very minimum they should have done an "AMD Gaming" day and dropped Zen3 and RDNA2 deets at once. It's not them "hiding" behind Zen 3 it just makes sense. You get to push your name as a complete gaming compute solution, you get synergistic hype of the event, also dropping all that at once would be an epic mic drop imo.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, S w a t s o n said:

I've seen variations of these 3 points floating around and I have to address them at this point:

1. Allowing NVidia the free PR instead of stealing thunder is not a good play. They definitely can "battle" it. They dont need to win a hype war, they just need to cut into the nvidia hype.The CPU/GPU vendors have done this before no reason they couldnt here.

2. Everything will be known already. They can't ship new cards that fast, a super refresh would take some time. Pricing can be changed but if nvidia cuts, amd can cut. AMD will win the price war

 

3. Consoles will have no mention of AMD and the only people that will be talking about AMD in relation to consoles are PC enthusiasts trying to gleam RDNA2 perf. Lining up the releases doesnt actually increase the hype factor or mindhsare of AMD at all in regards to the consoles

This is the thing.  The 3080 and 3090 use the same die.  If they can’t make a 3090 they can’t make a 3080. A 3080 is just a gimped 3090.  What ti/super showed is a xx70 is just as fast as a xx80 if it’s treated right. If they can make a card that can match/beat a 3080 I think they have to sell it as a 3070 contender.  I also think they have to set it up so that when the 3070ti comes out to curb stomp it they can press a button, release a driver, and simply say “nope”. That would get them market share. Which is what they’re short on.  They’re going to have to buy marketshare.  But while Nvidia won’t sell it to them customers will.

[GDRRiley]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This is the thing.  The 3080 and 3090 use the same die.  If they can’t make a 3090 they can’t make a 3080.

matters what on the die is bad

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

matters what on the die is bad

True.  The intel lesson.  A chip that cant cut it as a 3090 can maybe still cut it as a 3080.  So they turn it up to 11, but it doesn’t work for all the stuff sold as a 3070 competitor.  I dunno.  Maybe this has already been tried and has already failed. ATI/AMD has been after Nvidia for a long time.

[S w a t s o n]

23 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I also think they have to set it up so that when the 3070ti comes out to curb stomp it they can press a button, release a driver, and simply say “nope”. That would get them market share. Which is what they’re short on.  They’re going to have to buy marketshare.  But while Nvidia won’t sell it to them customers will.

???

 

When has this ever happened? If they are using the driver to sandbag that hard people will be very angry. A new card or price cut is much more likely

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

???

 

When has this ever happened? If they are using the driver to sandbag that hard people will be very angry. A new card or price cut is much more likely

This is the problem.  ALL the Nvidia cards are sandbagged, and have been for years.  except maybe the Ti/supers. Those were sandbagged cards with the sandbags removed.  The 3090 show that the 3080 IS sandbagged.

 

The way I see it is AMD releases a card at around whichever 30xx price point that competes at that level, and straight up says “this card can go faster” “we are not going to say how much faster we can make it go, but faster it will go. We will not raise the price of this card if/when we make it do so.  Feel free to mess with things, but know we are paying people to do what you are spending time and energy doing and if you just wait a bit, things will arrive”

[S w a t s o n]

24 minutes ago, ONOTech said:

1. I guess better wording would be: they can battle it, but doing so wouldn't be as effective as letting it die down and taking more time with their response. Reactionary responses can be hit or miss and I think AMD wants to make sure they really hit here. + AMD is selling CPUs too, and marketing Ryzen chips with RTX chips will help them out (though they may not necessarily need it in the CPU dept).
2. We know prices, which could change, and we know performance numbers straight from NVIDIA themselves. We don't have 3rd party reviews which include RT and rasterization performance, power consumption, temperatures, noise, RTX.IO or whatever, and other things.
3. RDNA2 and Zen are mentioned in almost every press release of the PS5 and Xbox One including YouTube video content. The average joe probably won't know, but people who have been following Sony and Microsoft for even the last week or two have seen Zen or RDNA2 pop up. Plus, it's not just for consumers but for the board. Stock goes up! They can also levy this during the Oct 28th unveil where hype for XSX and probably PS5 will be rising again

It's < 2 months after NVIDIA unveiled their new line-up. That's a major improvement for AMD and still timely enough to make impact.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 so we will see how it plays out but I think staggering launches makes A LOT more sense if you have two very good products. That's 2 opportunities to impress your customers.

The response doesnt have to be reactionary, just needs to not happen a month after Nvidia has cards ready for order. You repeated what I said, we know the detail. If price changes that means nothing to AMD, they will respond back if needed. AMD isnt fucking waiting for 3rd party reviews to launch Big Navi lmfao. The console launch is after Big Navi and Zen 3, it's not doing anything for AMD that showing RDNA in Sept wouldnt have.

[Blademaster91]

29 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

The response doesnt have to be reactionary, just needs to not happen a month after Nvidia has cards ready for order. You repeated what I said, we know the detail. If price changes that means nothing to AMD, they will respond back if needed. AMD isnt fucking waiting for 3rd party reviews to launch Big Navi lmfao. The console launch is after Big Navi and Zen 3, it's not doing anything for AMD that showing RDNA in Sept wouldnt have.

Any response from AMD would be seen as reactionary, because they're much less of the market than Nvidia, and their marketing is usually very reactionary so IMO it's better that they say nothing at all. And if AMD were to hype up their GPU's the rumor clickbait channels would come up with all kinds of made up claims and most of it would be wrong yet people would be disappointed anyway.

The consoles launching first makes sense,AMD gets mentioned in the release, and then it builds hype for their GPU launch later on. There isn't any point for AMD to hype up their GPU products early as all Nvidia would have to do is announce they have a Ti or Super card.

[Soppro]

Woohoo, Zen 3 is going to be interesting! Excited to see what they do with RDNA, with Intel coming next year as well it is cool to see everyone finally showing off their goods 

[LAwLz]

20 hours ago, Kilrah said:

You can go watch a few hours of the videos from our favorite youtubers from just before the announcement yourself to locate it if you want to find it that bad.

GN explained the misunderstanding BTW.

Got any links?

Maybe @GDRRiley has any?

 

By the way, we're threaded on pretty thin ice here where you're trying to use MLID as a source to prove a point MLID stated was right.

 

ME: MLID is inaccurate because he was wrong about a ton of stuff.

Someone: He wasn't wrong! It's a conspiracy by Nvidia. They gave out the wrong information so that leaks would be incorrect!

Me: Got any evidence that this conspiracy is true or is that just something MLID is saying to save his own reputation?
Someone: MLID has a video about it! I won't link you to the video though. You'll have to find it yourself!

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Are people still following garbage tier sources like him, RedGamingTech, Digital Foundry, Video-Cardz, Shittech, and Adored?

Wait, I understand why some are on that list like Adored (basically just rumor mills) but why is Digital Foundry on that list?

They seem a bit out of place.

 

 

But yes, people still follow those sites. I think it's because they give people false hope. People (or rather, fanboys) want to hear stuff like "AMD good, Nvidia bad" and if there is a channel that provides that type of content people will follow it. Seems to happen quite a lot with AMD stuff in particular.

[Blademaster91]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Iirc, they're the ones who made a post, not talking about the cowcotland thing, that the Radeon VII was discontinued when AMD was restocking it on their store.  But, their ass kissing video for Nvidia over the 3080 is primarily why.  The guy in that video pretty much played along with cherry picked tests to get the card early rather than reputation.   Then he acts like his word removes any biases because that's how that works.    Like, how am I supposed to take him seriously when he does stuff like that?

I wouldn't put Digital Foundry in the fake leaks clickbait list, but I'd hesitate to trust a review from them after they put up sponsored cherry picked benchmarks as a "review". Though I don't watch their content so idk if Digital Foundry do actual consistent reviews, I usually watch Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed for the detailed reviews.

[Mateyyy]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I wouldn't put Digital Foundry in the fake leaks clickbait list, but I'd hesitate to trust a review from them after they put up sponsored cherry picked benchmarks as a "review". Though I don't watch their content so idk if Digital Foundry do actual consistent reviews, I usually watch Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed for the detailed reviews.

They never called that video a "review" to my knowledge. They just called it an "early look", which sounds fair.

The fact that all the games tested were picked by Nvidia was made clear, and their videos in general are really insightful and I didn't really notice much in the way of bias, at least in the ones I've watched.

[LAwLz]

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Iirc, they're the ones who made a post, not talking about the cowcotland thing, that the Radeon VII was discontinued when AMD was restocking it on their store.  But, their ass kissing video for Nvidia over the 3080 is primarily why.  The guy in that video pretty much played along with cherry picked tests to get the card early rather than reputation.   Then he acts like his word removes any biases because that's how that works.    Like, how am I supposed to take him seriously when he does stuff like that?

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I wouldn't put Digital Foundry in the fake leaks clickbait list, but I'd hesitate to trust a review from them after they put up sponsored cherry picked benchmarks as a "review". Though I don't watch their content so idk if Digital Foundry do actual consistent reviews, I usually watch Gamers Nexus or Hardware Unboxed for the detailed reviews.

Fair points.

They did call their 3080 video an "early look" and not a review but I understand why it's a bit morally questionable for a reviewer to play along with whatever a manufacturer tells them to do.

I don't watch their content so I was just wondering if I had missed something when Digital Foundry were mentioned in the same sentence as a bunch of rumor channels.

[JediFragger]

Tbf to DF if it wasn't them then it'd be someone else doing it for the clicks.

[Blademaster91]

7 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I had more of an issue that he was trying to dismiss a bias by telling people to take his word for it.   Because that's not how that works.

I agree seems really questionable as to how reliable as source is if they try dismissing it and telling people they can be trusted because they have other reviews up, no that still has me wondering how valid other content is. Kinda reminds me of the dyson vacuum review that a lot of tech youtubers took the money for.

10 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

They never called that video a "review" to my knowledge. They just called it an "early look", which sounds fair.

The fact that all the games tested were picked by Nvidia was made clear, and their videos in general are really insightful and I didn't really notice much in the way of bias, at least in the ones I've watched.

Calling it an "early look" still implies that it's a preview of the rest of their review, and even though they made clear the games were cherry picked there were still a lot of people getting hyped up and taking it as a unbiased honest review.

[Mateyyy]

17 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I had more of an issue that he was trying to dismiss a bias by telling people to take his word for it.   Because that's not how that works.

You know people were going to call them out on being biased or shills or whatever on it, since nobody else had, or at least was allowed to show off the card, let alone how it performs (not in detail).

Other reviewers (LTT, Tom's Hardware, Tech of Tomorrow, etc.) have had the 3080 for a little while now, despite all of these unboxings being published only yesterday, but granted we don't know whether they got it at the same time as DF. 

 

Regardless, DF will surely publish an actual review of the 3080 on the 14th, along with the rest of the reviewers out there, and I seriously doubt their numbers will be out of line. What they showed in their early look video was just a very rough representation of the performance anyway, they didn't give any raw FPS or frametime data on any of the benchmarks.

 

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

and even though they made clear the games were cherry picked there were still a lot of people getting hyped up and taking it as a unbiased honest review.

That's not their fault though, is it? Some people get overly excited over even the smallest leak/rumour. Don't be those people.

[Kilrah]

45 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

That's not their fault though, is it? Some people get overly excited over even the smallest leak/rumour. Don't be those people.

I consider it is. These videos are precisely designed to take advantage of people getting hyped too easily. 

[Mateyyy]

23 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I consider it is. These videos are precisely designed to take advantage of people getting hyped too easily. 

Well then defending MLID and others like him is baffling

[porina]

21 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1873-radeon-image-sharpening-vs-nvidia-dlss/ amd has a response to DLSS and we dont know how many games are going to have DLSS. so im not sure if i would consider it a huge make or break feature right now

AMD sharpening is NOT a direct replacement to DLSS. If you want basic sharpening, nvidia also offer that as a separate setting.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, porina said:

AMD sharpening is NOT a direct replacement to DLSS. If you want basic sharpening, nvidia also offer that as a separate setting.

well in many ways its better than the current DLSS i havent seen DLSS 3.0 so idk about that

[porina]

8 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

well in many ways its better than the current DLSS i havent seen DLSS 3.0 so idk about that

That's a user choice to play the game not as the developer intended with post processing effects. Sharpening is only one possible part, through the driver or plugins like reshade. To me the examples AMD gave at the time just looked like something a novice photographer would do, turn up the sliders in photoshop to give more visual impact that quickly looks cheesy when taken too far.