Albion College Forces Students to Install 24/7 Tracking App that Readily Leaks Personal Health Data

[WereCatf]

7 hours ago, GrockleTD said:

Who the hell thought this was a good idea

Quite literally every American college.

[Master Disaster]

I swear, Orwell was a time traveller.

[AlTech]

58 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I swear, Orwell was a time traveller.

Since I can't give two reactions through the reactions feature here's my two: 1) So true. 100% agree. It feels more and more like every day the way to stay ahead or know what's coming next is to re-read (or read for the first time) Animal Farm and 1984. 2) It's simultaniously quite scary, quite humourous, and quite depressing that his books are now becoming the crystal balls to consult in these times of uncertainty.

[Doobeedoo]

Literally everyone should simply. But oh wait, not like humans will work as unity. 

[Guest]

If I were these students I would be trying to get the best education I can. Especially since I would be paying 45,000.

[Bombastinator]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:54 PM, Orangeator said:

I sense a class-action lawsuit... Also, students could just install the app on a burner phone ( @Arika S ), leaving it running 24/7 within the boundaries of the school. Still wrong to force the students to go through such measures, but, it is an option until the University realizes it will be facing some serious legal action. 

Class action lawsuits require proof of harm.  If the flaw was found and patched but not exploited there was no harm. 

[Bombastinator]

On 8/21/2020 at 3:40 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Sometimes I feel like somebody needs to remind these colleges that you’re one the paying to go there and that they’re not the ones paying you to go there.

Yup.  So if you don’t want to go don’t go.  Simple. Colleges often have even more onerous requirements than this one.  The college I went to required that any car driven by a student had to be parked in a special lot, and it’s license plates removed and handed in along with keys.  They literally took your car away for the year.  You can choose a school for example whose campus is closed and is doing online learning since that seems to be the other option.

 

There are schools still pretending Covid doesn’t exist of course. Not many. There are always those.  Go to an unaccredited bible “college”.  And maybe kill your parents .

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Well, I how it was worth the lawsuits... 

 

On 8/21/2020 at 5:39 AM, Tech_Dreamer said:

technically they probably signed a waiver to "abide by the rules" of the institution when they joined & they can deem if something is right or wrong, they are pretty much contractually bound to the terms & conditions legally. being a private entity/institution they probably have exclusive privilege/status if it becomes a legal matter. just like clicking "accept terms of agreement & continue" .

Just like clicking "accept terms and continue", it does notnot allow them to set and enforce any terms they want. There are these things called "laws" that supercede any private contract. You can't waive fundamental rights through private contracts, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. 

Most "terms and conditions" are void (because of how draconian they get) and serve only a deterrence function. 

 

Somehow people think you can sell yourself into slavery by "freely signing a contract". You can't. 

[CarlBar]

10 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, I how it was worth the lawsuits... 

 

Just like clicking "accept terms and continue", it does notnot allow them to set and enforce any terms they want. There are these things called "laws" that supercede any private contract. You can't waive fundamental rights through private contracts, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. 

Most "terms and conditions" are void (because of how draconian they get) and serve only a deterrence function. 

 

Somehow people think you can sell yourself into slavery by "freely signing a contract". You can't. 

 

To be fair most countries have some really dumb laws on their books, and some countries are known to be worse than others. Case in point the US tends to be significantly worse from an outside PoV than Europe or RooLand/KiwiLand i these kinds of situations, (though it varies so much across the US that thats a heck of a generalisation, and if you read between the lines it often seems worse at first blush than it really is in the US).

[Zodiark1593]

Given this is a private school for the relatively affluent, I suppose it can be almost a given that students will have compatible devices, and there are probably few enough students without that administration is comfortable with simply giving the finger to. Though what’s to stop students from leaving campus with the registered device at home. Masks would certainly make it difficult to identify rulebreakers.

 

I don’t see such a idea working in state or community universities/colleges however. Lots of older devices are still in use, many of which are Android devices that hadn’t seen an update in years. It wouldn’t look great for a community college to mandate students carry a recent enough device to ensure compatibility. Even if low end new devices were handed out, low end devices can actually be a downgrade from older flagships.  Safety or not, we don’t need to worsen the wealth divide any further. A means if contact tracing that doesn’t involve student phones would be preferable, and potentially easier to roll out. 

[TetraSky]

Needing permission to leave school ground is... a bit much. The rest though? I'm kinda fine with it. (especially if the vulnerability is patched)

 

It is their dorms/residences and it is their responsibility to ensure everyone, students and staffs alike, are kept safe. Last thing they want is a lawsuit from a parent because their precious little angel caught the virus and were part of the small % that died because some other students gave zero shit and threw/attended a party.

If you live there, you live by their rules.

 

That said, it certainly does feel like the peoples in charge are a bit too power/control hungry on this one and it'd be good if they relaxed their policies a bit after a bit of backlash.

 

Edit : Jesus Christ it cost 31.5k PER SEMESTER. 63k per school year... (Not including the books, meal fees and all other fees...)

It's a rich kid's school. Yeah I suddenly feel like my opinion above is even more justified, they totally don't want to take any risk and have some rich parent lawyer up against them if anything happen. Wouldn't be surprised if they got a call or two from Karens demanding the school does something to ensure the safety of their child.

https://www.albion.edu/about-albion/administrative-divisions/finance-and-administration/offices-and-programs/accounting/tuition-and-fees

 

This sort of shit wouldn't work in a normal, for us lowly peasants, school. But a rich kid's school? Yeah, they have access to all the latest gadget and likely have 10000TB of monthly bandwidth on their devices anyway, perfect for 24/7 location data to be beamed to a server all the time.

[Maslofski]

On 8/21/2020 at 7:42 AM, Shammikit said:

I would buy an old Nokia 3310 and tell them this is the only phone I use

if they can make you pay 50k tuition and buy $200+ textbooks they can make you buy a smartphone lol

[TempestCatto]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:43 AM, Skipple said:

liberal arts college

No further explanation needed.

[TetraSky]

15 minutes ago, Maslofski said:

if they can make you pay 50k tuition and buy $200+ textbooks they can make you buy a smartphone lol

63k tuition per year and $1000+ for text books per semester *

+like 15k for other expenses like meal plans, residencies, etc.

[Kisai]

On 8/20/2020 at 9:56 PM, GrockleTD said:

Who the hell thought this was a good idea

Pretty much everyone hopping onto the Covid-19 contact tracing.

 

The problem is that a lot of the contact tracing techniques are slipshod slapped together, rushed, and mostly just suck.

 

The thing that Apple/Google rolled out for this works fine, requires no identifiable information, and unfortunately is limited only to devices running the most recent version of their OS's, due to utilizing features of BLE that require OS support. So if you don't have a good device, then you basically have to resort to some other technique.

 

The office here has you scan a QR code and you just fill out a form with your name, email address, and what office you're entering. Not much different from the previous "sign in" forms that were mainly used in case of an emergency and everyone had to be accounted for.

 

[DrMacintosh]

And that's why I will never attend a private university. Public schools (including State Colleges) give you much more freedom, as is mandated by law.  

[CarlBar]

1 hour ago, TempestCatto said:

No further explanation needed.

 

Given even the most liberal parts of the US are horribly conservative by European standards, (and this would not fly there), i suggest you look elsewhere for your explanation.

 

31 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Pretty much everyone hopping onto the Covid-19 contact tracing.

 

The problem is that a lot of the contact tracing techniques are slipshod slapped together, rushed, and mostly just suck.

 

The thing that Apple/Google rolled out for this works fine, requires no identifiable information, and unfortunately is limited only to devices running the most recent version of their OS's, due to utilizing features of BLE that require OS support. So if you don't have a good device, then you basically have to resort to some other technique.

 

The office here has you scan a QR code and you just fill out a form with your name, email address, and what office you're entering. Not much different from the previous "sign in" forms that were mainly used in case of an emergency and everyone had to be accounted for.

 

 

Fire Registers are still pretty much mandatory everywhere here in the UK.

[Tech_Dreamer]

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, I how it was worth the lawsuits... 

 

Just like clicking "accept terms and continue", it does notnot allow them to set and enforce any terms they want. There are these things called "laws" that supercede any private contract. You can't waive fundamental rights through private contracts, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. 

Most "terms and conditions" are void (because of how draconian they get) and serve only a deterrence function. 

 

Somehow people think you can sell yourself into slavery by "freely signing a contract". You can't. 

Same can be said about dress code or fees & residency terms or ID requirements conditions, unless it's put under extremely inhumane or discriminating or derogatory conditions , laws would apply just as any contractual agreement between 2 parties. it will be a lengthy process if it goes out into legal battle, probably have a vaccine by the time it's finished lol.

[Donut417]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:43 AM, Skipple said:

Holy god the ACLU better be all over this one.

Im not even sure if Michigan courts are even open yet. It's like they just opened the Secretary of State offices up again so people can renew their car registrations and License. 

 

I thought this was the US and not Soviet Russia. I have a feeling this is going to be on the 6pm news and the college will need to expect a large group of people showing up and protesting. Just like they did in the Michigan capitol when the governor issued the stay a home orders and such. 

[Andreas Lilja]

So now that the vulnerability has been patched, is it still a big deal?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

5 minutes ago, Andreas Lilja said:

So now that the vulnerability has been patched, is it still a big deal?

Yeah, the vulnerability wasn't the only problem. Like, would you like to be forced to download a tracking app, that gives people you don't know your position at all times? They don't allow you to leave campus, so if you go there, no off campus jobs for you, because, if you go to work, you get suspended.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, I how it was worth the lawsuits... 

 

Just like clicking "accept terms and continue", it does notnot allow them to set and enforce any terms they want. There are these things called "laws" that supercede any private contract. You can't waive fundamental rights through private contracts, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. 

Most "terms and conditions" are void (because of how draconian they get) and serve only a deterrence function. 

 

Somehow people think you can sell yourself into slavery by "freely signing a contract". You can't. 

It can depend.  Britian and the US had legal versions of what are now called effective slavery for a long time after the civil war.  It’s gotten a lot more convoluted than it used to be.  Share cropping in the US was finally labeled a form of chattel slavery.  I forget when that happened. 

Chattel slavery is a lot more complicated than “do what I say or I’ll wup ya then hang ya”.  It has to do with loans and slop chests and a bunch of things.  It’s much easier to do when there is a situation where the victim can’t simply walk away.  Like a ship at sea.  There are other ways to arrange that though.  The most common one is non mobile employer based health insurance.  “quit your job and your family dies” is a pretty good way to do that.  

[TetraSky]

40 minutes ago, TheTechWizardThatNeedsHelp said:

so if you go there, no off campus jobs for you, because, if you go to work, you get suspended.

Wait, you think these kids are the kind who'd be holding a job while going to college? When a single year there would essentially cost 80k or higher (tuition+everything else) ?

We're not talking about a public college where anyone can just attend if they "work hard enough". It's basically a school for the "elites".

 

Unless their parents are very strict and force them to pay for their own daily needs, I highly doubt this is the case for the vast majority of these 1500 students who basically live a life of luxury on campus. And beside, with this whole pandemic thing, the parents are more likely to be demanding these changes themselves to make sure no "peasants" with covid come close to their kids.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

32 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Wait, you think these kids are the kind who'd be holding a job while going to college? When a single year there would essentially cost 80k or higher (tuition+everything else) ?

We're not talking about a public college where anyone can just attend if they "work hard enough". It's basically a school for the "elites".

 

Unless their parents are very strict and force them to pay for their own daily needs, I highly doubt this is the case for the vast majority of these 1500 students who basically live a life of luxury on campus. And beside, with this whole pandemic thing, the parents are more likely to be demanding these changes themselves to make sure no "peasants" with covid come close to their kids.

There's got to be a couple kids who went there on a scholarship, but barely have enough for food otherwise, who are screwed now. Even if there are none, this app is bullshit.

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, TheTechWizardThatNeedsHelp said:

There's got to be a couple kids who went there on a scholarship, but barely have enough for food otherwise, who are screwed now. Even if there are none, this app is bullshit.

Ah the famous “work study” thing that has basically been a falsehood since before the 80’s to pacify the illusions of people in their 70’s who went to school in the 50’s back when colleges were subsidized by the government and the students didn’t notice. 
 

This stuff was crappola 30 years ago and has probably gotten worse.  Here’s how it worked in the 80’s/90’s:

 

Work study stuff happened ONLY on campus. It wasn’t really a job exactly.  It was a loan requirement.  Students fill the roles of Cafeteria workers etc..  Regular jobs had nothing to do with it.  You couldn’t just get a job anywhere and call it work study. It had a specific purpose that benefitted the school. Any student on a scholarship with a work study requirement also has a GPA requirement and gets reviewed every year.   The school controls the scholarships.  They want to output absolute top tier students because it makes them look good.    So the work study is used to stress the student.  They take a variable amount of time.  If they don’t think the student is an “asset” the jobs get harder and longer and the student no longer has time to make grades.  If that’s not enough they can always “alter” the scholarship.   Most people that go to college on work study never make senior year.  The schools fill its rolls, gets paid, and they’re done.  This is why there are so many people with “some” college.