Dear LTT, please stop hating Apple

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, LinusTech said:

For fun, @Twilight, here's two versions of the ipad 2020 Script.

 

Here's the one that was submitted to me:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

[with sarcastic enthusiasm]

Hey! Are you ready for another entry in the confusing saga of “What the heck is Apple doing with the iPad”? Great! In this episode, Apple edges the iPad a little more towards the “MacBook” end of the spectrum, with a new “iPad-only” flavor of mouse + trackpad support. But just wait until you see the new ultra wide camera and LIDAR sensor that Apple also put on the back for some reason! [break character] Yeah… if you’re confused, trust me – we are too. So let’s try to make some sense out of the beautiful mystery that is the 2020 iPad Pro.

 

SEGUE Today’s video is brought to you by.. (blank). (talking points here)

[Animated intro here]

 

In our last video about the iPad Pro, we said that Apple ISN’T trying to make the iPad more LIKE a computer. They’re trying to help the iPad be MORE useful AS a computer. Instead of making the iPad just… a worse version of a MacBook, Apple is differentiating the iPad even more with iPadOS-specific features. As they said in a 2019 marketing campaign, the iPad Pro is a “new way” to take notes, make music, or create a presentation. And so, we concluded, the iPad Pro is a “new way” to use a computer. A worse way for some people, like myself, but perhaps a better way for others.

 

So it’s a bit confusing to find ourselves playing with the 2020 iPad Pro running iPadOS 13.4, which features full-blown, full-featured mouse and trackpad support. And you might have noticed an asterisk come up when I said full-featured, and that’s because… it’s not. …depending on which mouse you use. We’ll get more into that later.

 

Because if Apple was trying to build a distinct identity for the iPad, wouldn’t they want to double down on the touch-and-Apple Pencil-focused UI, as they did with the initial release of iPadOS last year? In that release, the iPad got better navigation gestures, and even some features that negated the need for some keyboard shortcuts, like pinching your fingers to copy and spreading them to paste. Those kind of optimizations made us think that the iPad might be a good option for those less inclined to do their work sitting at a desk, hunched over a tiny screen.

 

But instead of leaning further into the iPad’s identity as a unique, handheld computing device, it seems like Apple has decided it wants to make the iPad Pro into a bad MacBook after all. They’re even releasing a new keyboard folio in may with a built-in trackpad! If I sound upset, it’s because I’m baffled, and confusion makes me angry! It just makes me want to buy something at lttstore.com to make me feel better!!

 

OK. Let’s take a step back. So iPadOS pre-13.4 already HAD mouse support, but it was buried in the settings, in the “AssistiveTouch” section of the Accessibility options. And as we said in our last video, it was by no means targeted at the non-disabled segment of the population that just wanted to use a regular mouse with their iPad. It was designed as a feature to help disabled people who might have trouble operating a touchscreen. Which – to be clear – was a welcome addition, BUT not the type of mouse support a Windows or macOS user would be accustomed to.

 

In iPadOS 13.4, mouse and trackpad support has been heavily modified and built-in as a core part of the OS. Connect one via Bluetooth, or even via a USB-C dongle, and a small grey pointer immediately pops up. But this isn’t that old tired DESKTOP mouse support. This is IPAD. The iPad pointer adapts to the shapes of things that it selects, which somehow makes clicking them… easier? After using it for a while, I really can’t see any obvious benefit to this feature. Luckily, you can turn it off in settings.

 

That is, the Accessibility settings, because SOME of the pointer options are under “Mouse and Trackpad” in General settings, and the rest are under “Pointer control” in Accessibility settings, for reasons that continue to elude me. While there were options for assigning functions to other other buttons on the mouse, I couldn’t get them working properly on my MX Master 2S.

 

But overall, the general user experience with a mouse is a lot better here than In the last version of iPadOS, where the pointer acted basically like a floating finger. Now, you can right click items to bring up context menus, and there’s support for scroll wheels, although frequent hitches and hang-ups make it clear that things have been optimized for a trackpad or the touch surface of Apple’s Magic Mouse.

 

There are also a number of new gestures that involve dragging the pointer “outside” the screen. Dragging to the right will show or hide Slideover apps, Dragging up on the top-right brings down Control Center, dragging up anywhere else brings down Notification Center, and there’s no gesture for dragging to the left as far as I can tell. But get this: In an app, drag down to bring up the dock. Drag down FURTHER to go home. Drag down AGAIN to enter multitasking, at which point you can drag down ONE MORE TIME to go home, again. I wanted to see how deep this rabbit hole goes, but… apparently that’s the bottom. These gestures were pretty confusing at first, but once I got used to them, they were actually pretty useful, particularly dragging right to access Slideover.

 

There are even more gestures you can do with multiple fingers on a trackpad to go Home and switch apps, but we didn’t have a trackpad, and if I keep talking about mouse support I’m going to get upset again, so we’d best move on.

 

Let’s talk about the hardware! The 2020 iPad Pro is NOT a big upgrade hardware-wise over the 2018 model - in fact it’s basically the same tablet. While the whole 2020 iPad Pro lineup now comes with 6GB of RAM, they all run on the A12Z Bionic processor, which is essentially the same chip as the A12X Bionic in the 2018 model - but with a single additional core in the GPU, bringing the total to 8. That bore out in our Geekbench tests, showing a VERY slight increase in multi-core performance, and a… lower score on the Compute benchmark? We’ll just chalk that up to some lack of optimization in iPadOS 13.4 for now.

 

The base model of the 2020 iPad Pro DOES come with 128GB of storage instead of 64, which is great to see, but the only other major changes to be found on this device are in the camera module. In addition to the standard 12MP lens, we’ve got a new 10MP ultra wide lens, for all those people… vlogging… with their iPad??

 

Next to that is the LIDAR sensor. LIDAR stand for Light Detection and Ranging, and it works by sending out infrared light, then measuring how long it takes for it to hit something and bounce back. This new sensor is supposed to be a boon for AR content, but in our tests, it didn’t seem to make AR content on the iPad any more compelling. Object occlusion in IKEA’s AR shopping app was about the same as on the 2018 iPad Pro, and in the Measure app, the new iPad actually seemed to do WORSE at consistently measuring length – it was about an inch off.

 

Some app developers have expressed excitement about the new sensor, with some early tests showing the effect it can have on mapping virtual spaces onto physical ones (link). And there are rumors going around that Apple will include a LIDAR sensor in the next flagship iPhone, so this new iPad may just be serving as a test bed so LIDAR-equipped AR will be nice and polished by the fall. But for now, it’s… a fancy new sensor with not much to do.

 

So… I guess we might have been wrong when we guessed at Apple’s intentions for the iPad. It seems like they were championing it as this groundbreaking new way for certain people to do work. But with more desktop-like mouse + trackpad support, combined with a lack of new touch-focused features, and the frankly baffling addition of new CAMERA features on a TABLET… I feel like we’re right back to square one.

 

Apple needs to decide whether iPad is something different, or more of the same. Because if the iPad’s going to continue becoming “like a computer”, the more I want to put it aside and use… a real computer.

 

Here's the one I "read from the prompter": 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

[with sarcastic enthusiasm]

Hey! Are you ready for another entry in the confusing saga of “What the heck is Apple doing with the iPad”[JS1] ? Great!..

 

…Because in this episode, Apple edges the iPad a little more towards the “MacBook” end of the spectrum, with a new “iPad-only” flavor of mouse + trackpad support[JS2] . But just wait until you see the new ultra wide camera and LIDAR sensor that Apple also put on the back for some reason! [JS3] [break character] Yeah… if you’re confused, trust me – we are too. So let’s try to make some sense out of the beautiful mystery that is the 2020 iPad Pro… together… with our SPONSOR!

 

(blank). (talking points here)

[Animated intro here]

In our last video about the iPad Pro, we said that Apple ISN’T trying to make the iPad more LIKE a computer, but rather they’re trying to help the iPad be MORE useful AS a computer with iPadOS-specific features. They called the iPad Pro a “new way” to take notes, make music, or create a presentation. A worse way for some people, like myself - but distinctly DIFFERENT from both a “computer” and a “tablet”..

 

.. and not in a bad way! In the initial release of iPadOS last year, the iPad got better navigation gestures, and even some features that negated the need for some keyboard shortcuts, like pinching your fingers to copy and spreading them to paste. Those kind of optimizations made us think that the iPad might be a good option for those less inclined to do their work sitting at a desk, hunched over a tiny screen.

 

So it’s a bit confusing to find ourselves playing with the 2020 iPad Pro running iPadOS 13.4, which now has full-blown mouse AND trackpad support[LS4] .

 

Instead of leaning further into the iPad’s identity as a unique, handheld computing device, it seems like Apple has decided it wants to make the iPad Pro into a bad MacBook after all. They’re even releasing a keyboard folio in May with a built-in trackpad!

 

To see where Apple’s going, maybe we have to look at where they came from.. iPadOS pre-13.4 already HAD mouse support, but it was buried in the “AssistiveTouch” section of the Accessibility options. And as we said in our last video, it was designed as a feature to help disabled people who might have trouble operating a touchscreen rather than as a way for every iPad user to easily connect a mouse and go ham. It was a welcome addition, BUT it not the type of mouse support a Windows or macOS user would be accustomed to.

 

NOW, mouse and trackpad support has been built-in as a core part of the OS. Connect one via Bluetooth, or even a USB-C dongle, and a small grey pointer immediately pops up.. and MORPHS! Yes, friends, this isn’t your tired old DESKTOP mouse pointer. This is IPAD. The iPad pointer adapts to the shapes of things that it selects, which is supposed to make clicking them… easier? I dunno.. After using it for a while, we really can’t see an obvious benefit to this feature. Luckily, you can turn it off in the settings.

 

That is, the ACCESSIBILITY settings, because SOME of the pointer options are under “Mouse and Trackpad” in General settings, while the rest are under “Pointer control” in Accessibility settings.. for reasons that continue to elude me.

 

Between the two of them, there are options for adjusting pointer contrast, size and colour, you can change the tracking and scrolling speed, and you can even assign functions to other buttons on the mouse, although we couldn’t get that last one working properly on an MX Master 2S so YMMV.

 

.. It’s definitely not perfect, but overall, the user experience with a mouse is a lot better than in the last version of iPadOS, where the pointer acted basically like a floating finger. Now, you can right click to bring up context menus, and there’s support for scroll wheels, although frequent hitches and hang-ups make it clear that things have been optimized for a trackpad or the touch surface of Apple’s Magic Mouse.

 

There are also a number of new gestures that involve dragging the pointer “outside” the screen. Dragging to the right will show or hide Slideover apps, Dragging up on the top-right brings down Control Center, dragging up anywhere else brings down Notification Center, and there’s no gesture for dragging to the left as far as I can tell. But get this: In an app, drag down to bring up the dock. Drag down FURTHER to go home. Drag down AGAIN to enter multitasking, at which point you can drag down ONE MORE TIME to go home, again. By this point we were jazzed to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes, but… apparently that’s the bottom. These gestures were a little confusing at first, but in less than an hour we think most people would find them pretty useful, particularly dragging right to access Slideover.

 

There are even more gestures you can do with multiple fingers on a trackpad to go Home and switch apps, but we didn’t have a trackpad, and if I keep talking about mouse support I’m going to get upset again, so we’d best move on.

 

.. to the hardware! The 2020 iPad Pro is NOT a big upgrade over the 2018 model - in fact it’s basically the same tablet. While the whole 2020 iPad Pro lineup now comes with 6GB of RAM, they all run on the A12Z Bionic processor, which is on paper is essentially the same chip as the A12X Bionic in the 2018 model - but with a single additional core in the GPU, bringing the total to.. 8. That was confirmed by our Geekbench tests, where we saw a VERY slight increase in multi-core performance, and a… lower score on the Compute benchmark? Uh.. we’ll just chalk that up to some lack of optimization in iPadOS 13.4 for now.

 

The base model of the 2020 iPad Pro DOES come with 128GB of storage instead of 64, which is great to see, but the only other major changes to be found on this device are in the camera module. In addition to the standard 12MP lens, we’ve got a new 10MP ultra wide lens, for all those (sneer) people[LS5] … vlogging… with their iPads..

 

.. then next to that is the LIDAR sensor. LIDAR stand for Light Detection and Ranging, and it works by sending out infrared light, then measuring how long it takes for it to hit something and bounce back. This new sensor is supposed to be a boon for AR content, but in our tests, it didn’t seem to make AR content on the iPad any more compelling. Object occlusion in IKEA’s AR shopping app was about the same as on the 2018 iPad Pro, and in the Measure app, the new iPad actually seemed to do WORSE at consistently measuring length – it was about an inch off.

 

Some app developers have expressed excitement about the new sensor, with some early tests showing the effect it CAN have on mapping virtual spaces onto physical ones (link). And there are rumors going around that Apple will include a LIDAR sensor in the next flagship iPhone, so this new iPad may just be serving as a test bed so LIDAR-equipped AR will be nice and polished by the fall. But for now, it’s… a fancy new sensor with not much in the way of software support.

 

So… iPad Pro 2020 then.. Maybe we were wrong when we guessed at Apple’s intentions for the iPad. It seemed like they were championing it as this groundbreaking new way for certain people to do work on the go.. An iPad for Pros.. and now we’ve got.. an iPad.. with a mouse attached to it.. and another camera.. and a light bounce sensor.. which I guess is fine. It just leaves me questioning who it’s for.

 

Why don’t YOU guys let me know. Are you the unicorn Apple is searching for who needs more than an iPad, but less than a Macbook? What do you DO.. with it? (pause)… No, but really. Leave a comment. I genuinely want to know.

Either I saw your post and went out of my way to create a slightly different version of the script to post here... OR I actually do the things I say I do lol.

 

I get that woke cynicism is sorta your thing, but stick with what you know rather than what you assume about me.

I stand corrected. I apologise for assuming, I'll try not to in the future. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, straight_stewie said:

The argument was about whether or not there existed a given use case would prefer a Mac over a PC.

A use case is not subjective. It is an objective, well defined, tangible thing.

Excluding the use cases "I want to use a Mac" and "I require Continuity" there exists no use case which can be accomplished on a Mac objectively any better or for less money or time than can be accomplished on a similarly specced PC running Windows or *nix.
 

To the previous statement, none of the things that you have listed are objectively better than their PC counterparts. In fact, atleast two are objectively worse than their PC counterparts:

• GarageBand is significantly less capable than FLStudio.
• iMovie is slightly less capable than Resolve.

I'll take the full point back on Terminal, thank you. You can run a BASH terminal on Windows with very minimal configuration, and it will only get better and easier with time as Windows Subsystem for Linux matures.

 

Of the things you listed only one, Continuity, is actually a feature not available on other device families. Everything else has a Windows or *Nix counterpart, including iCloud, which literally works, with a drag and drop interface, on any device with a somewhat recent web browser.

Mate, Resolve is clunky and hard to use while iMovie is dead simple for anyone to just hop on and start creating. You may be able to do all of this stuff using Linux, but the reality of it is that not everyone has the know how and the time to tinker around for ages just to get Linux working for them. Case in point here: 

 

Is Resolve and FLStudio they objectively more capable? Yes. But are they subjectively and objectively less accessible to the masses? Also yes. Run any usability and heuristic testing with FLStudio and Resolve and I guarantee you those two will fall flat on their faces. Place FLStudio or Resolve in front of someone just getting into video editing and music production and they wouldn't even know where to start. 

 

The thing with Apple is that they were never going to be the best value and they never will. What Apple is good at is packaging technology in way that anyone can immediately get going with minimal effort and additional training. 

 

The way MacOS is designed that installing programs can literally be done by dragging and dropping into the Applications fold. The way crashes are handled even back in the early 2000s where you had this screen:

Spoiler

Is much easier for your standard consumer to understand instead of this ungodly mess: 

Spoiler

All the user needs to know is to restart the computer. Simple. That's all they can really comprehend. If the issue is far worse, then you get the kernel panic with diagnostic information. Apple has been doing this stuff for years. Value, specs, and capabilities means nothing if the majority of the population can't even use it.
https://youtu.be/hIrs_AGBIww?t=28

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

1 hour ago, straight_stewie said:

To the previous statement, none of the things that you have listed are objectively better than their PC counterparts. In fact, atleast two are objectively worse than their PC counterparts:

• GarageBand is significantly less capable than FLStudio.
• iMovie is slightly less capable than Resolve.

I'll take the full point back on Terminal, thank you. You can run a BASH terminal on Windows with very minimal configuration, and it will only get better and easier with time as Windows Subsystem for Linux matures.

 

Of the things you listed only one, Continuity, is actually a feature not available on other device families. Everything else has a Windows or *Nix counterpart, including iCloud, which literally works, with a drag and drop interface, on any device with a somewhat recent web browser.

wrong on the terminal part. on Windows it's running inside of WSL last time I checked, and it's annoying to set up, again, last time I used it. it's possible it's better now, and if it is I'm gonna set it up on my gaming pc just because I'm curious, but last time I tried it on windows it wasn't nice 

 

Spotlight is not just an alternative to Windows search. it's worlds better and top of the class, even LMG has said this numerous times. 

 

iirc FLStudio is a paid application, GarageBand is free. if you want to be fair you need to compare Logic Pro to FLStudio. 

 

iCloud has several advantages that I can't get with other services.

• it's Apple, so much more privacy friendly than anything Google makes
• it's integrated into almost all parts of the OS.
• i can receive phone calls on my Mac, iPhone and an iPad and Apple Watch if I owned those, so I almost never miss one. currently I'm on android and I will be switching back to iOS really soon just for this feature. I've missed a few calls because my phone was muted on a charger while I was using my MacBook. if I had an iPhone I would have been able to answer from my Mac and I wouldn't have missed them. 
• I can get a new phone and just restore all my apps, accounts, WhatsApp history, just everything from my old device. 

 

Time Machine is another one that can do things no other OS is able to do. 

• I can access it inside of any application that supports it. for example I can open a document, enter time machine and just go back in time inside of the editor. 
• Time Machine backup drives are bootable and give you a full recovery environment that allows you to browse the web, access disk utility to partition drives, restore from a Time Machine backup you have or clean install the OS. it's one of the main reasons why I use Mac. you can even restore a backup from a different computer if both support the OS you want to restore. for example, if my 2017 MacBook Pro dies for some reason, I can plug the time machine drive into my 2012, restore a backup from the 2017 and because they both support macOS Catalina it will boot right up and I have access to everything. you just can't do that on Windows or Linux.
• it's fully automatic, if I plug in a time machine drive I can just leave it be. no buttons to click, nothing. 

 

Mactracker is an app that's macOS only so there's no way that exists elsewhere. 

 

and you're right, the others have alternatives on other platforms, but you said that there are no reasons to use Mac compared to a similar pc with a unix OS, and I gave you a list of things why I personally use a Mac. yes, there are alternatives to the programs I use, but I just prefer these. that's an opinion, but it's a reason for me to use a Mac. 

[kirashi]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:31 AM, Twilight said:

uhh no. there is a very real pattern. for example, whenever they mention thermals they mention MacBooks, but ZenBooks are just as bad if you put an i9 in them. as are most other laptops that aren't thicc gaming laptops. 

That's because ZenBooks and MacBooks + MacBook Airs are/were made by Pegatron. The only patter here is that ASUS and Apple don't manufacture or design their own products without the help of ODM's who actually know what they're doing.

https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/pegatron_forced_to_drop_zenbook_due_to_macbook_air_similarities

[straight_stewie]

2 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

But that doesn't mean that people having those devices are wrong.

I never said they were wrong. I just said that the statement "A Mac is better" is not any better than the statement "Windows is better", for the reason you laid out. Then I went on to enumerate that I did prefer an Apple product, myself, in at least one device category.

2 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

I'm ready to argue that's completely left to the end user, while I personally prefer a Windows or Linux PC, what other prefers isn't my place to say

Preference is not necessarily objective. Most of the time it is right the opposite: subjective.

I would go a step further than what you said and say that for all users, not just most users, except those who want a Mac just to have a Mac and those who require Continuity's functionality, there exists no use case for which there is an objective benefit to having a Mac over either of the other two mature and widely adopted platforms. The key word here is require. It is not subjective. A requirement is purely objective: It specifies a generalized computer task. Using a specific application is not, in the context of objectivity, a requirement. The requirement is rather to accomplish the task for which that specific application would be used for: editing a movie, writing a book, creating/recording music, using a calendar...

In the general case, not just in this specific context, any "requirement" that involves a proper noun is actually a "want". For example "We require our show to be filmed with RED cameras" is a want (assuming no advertising, product placement, or other business agreements) while "We require our show to be filmed in 8K resolution and delivered to our editors in a RAW format" is a requirement.

At the end of the day, a Mac is just an IBM clone successor running a FreeBSD successor. Neither the hardware nor the software bundled with a Mac is objectively better than any other IBM clone successor platform. Which is all I've been trying to say.

The entire argument boils down to subjectivity. There are no purely objective differences between modern, equivalently hardware specced, IBM PC clone successor platforms. The difference between Apple and Microsoft, as far as PCs goes, boils down to the question: Which brand do I want to give my money to?

For reference:

• Subjective:
  • based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
• Objective:
  • not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

I have not argued that someone who wants a Mac is wrong or bad. I have only argued that preference does not an objective argument make.

[Letgomyleghoe]

On 4/19/2020 at 1:01 PM, 5x5 said:

It does, though. Rossmann talked about it multiple times. The display backlight pin is right next to the CPU data pin on the display flex cable. So even in a humid room, when a tiny bit of corrosion appears, they get bridged and 52v gets sent to the CPU directly, frying it on the spot.

Jesus Christ why is the backlight 52v lmao

[Nitewing18]

I've not gone through all 8 pages of comments, nor am I likely to. But from reading the ones I have, it seems I'm a rare bird: I've used Apple stuff my whole life, except for a Compaq Presario 2100 that I was given when an employer closed his doors and was getting rid of all the office stuff. Oh, and I had a XT-equivalent Compaq that was huge and built like a tank for a short time, but I digress...

 

My second computer was an Apple //e in 1986, so I'm an old geek. I worked in IT in various jobs through the years, always using a PC at work and having an Apple at home. I did most of my own hardware installs in the Apple //e and IIgs and I've replaced HD's and SSD's as well as RAM in Macs until recently when they soldered everything. Through the years I've owned several Macs and right now I'm typing this on a 2018 Mac Mini with a 6-core i5. It's a nice machine and does what I need it to do...ALMOST.

 

This month while we've been staying at home, I decided to fulfill a bucket list item and build my own PC to run my Steam library on, since I was tired of dual-booting the Mac and the Windows partition was cramping my SSD space. I built a nice Ryzen 3 machine and it runs the casual games I play pretty well using the on-board Radeon Vega graphics. Honestly, it runs a couple games better than my PS4 does, which won't surprise most of you. 

 

I, too, have winced at the Apple hate that seems so common in the PC world. My attitude has always been, use what works for you and don't criticize what others choose to use. I had a brief few years that I hated Bill Gates and Microsoft after Pirates of Silicon Valley revealed his dealings with Steve Jobs, but otherwise I don't mind using Windows 10. It seems pretty good these days.

 

I understand OP's desire to avoid the haters. And I *do* think that there has been some of that from LTT, but Linus has also pointed out that the "Macs are overpriced" mantra of PC fanboys doesn't hold water if you compare brand name prebuilt PC's with Macs. I think Linus is mostly fair, but there has been an edge of spite in a few of his videos. None of it compares to the way he called out Intel for stomping all over the big AMD announcement recently, though.

 

Anyway, my 2 cents from someone with a foot in both worlds. 

[GDRRiley]

3 hours ago, scuff gang said:

Jesus Christ why is the backlight 52v lmao

because you needs lots of voltage for low amps over a thin wire with minimal loss.

its a lot better than the 5000V+ of CRTs

 

[Lord Vile]

9 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

The argument was about whether or not there existed a given use case would prefer a Mac over a PC.

A use case is not subjective. It is an objective, well defined, tangible thing.

Excluding the use cases "I want to use a Mac" and "I require Continuity" there exists no use case which can be accomplished on a Mac objectively any better or for less money or time than can be accomplished on a similarly specced PC running Windows or *nix.
 

To the previous statement, none of the things that you have listed are objectively better than their PC counterparts. In fact, atleast two are objectively worse than their PC counterparts:

• GarageBand is significantly less capable than FLStudio.
• iMovie is slightly less capable than Resolve.

I'll take the full point back on Terminal, thank you. You can run a BASH terminal on Windows with very minimal configuration, and it will only get better and easier with time as Windows Subsystem for Linux matures.

 

Of the things you listed only one, Continuity, is actually a feature not available on other device families. Everything else has a Windows or *Nix counterpart, including iCloud, which literally works, with a drag and drop interface, on any device with a somewhat recent web browser.

You do realise GarageBand and iMovie are both free right? I mean if you’re talking paid versions you’re gonna have to compare them against Logic (lol have fun) and Final Cut. 
 

Coding is objectively better on Mac

Content creation is better as you have access to literally every piece of software on MacOS, Windows and Linux.  

 

Portability of the Mac is better as you don’t need a mouse and don’t have to carry a bulky power brick 

 

The trackpad in general makes working a lot easier and quicker. 

Mac is a lot more cross compatible with Windows than Windows is with it.

 

Overall MacOS is just a nicer environment to be in. I’ve had 0 issues with my MacBook Air or Pro on the hardware or software front and my desktop which runs windows and has been relegated solely to gaming duty I’ve had countless software hiccups through multiple clean windows installs. Think I’ve posted some of the issues earlier in this thread but windows is a buggy pile of crap and I would happily pay the extra on an equally specced MacBook vs a Windows PC just to get away from windows and have a somewhat useable experience (sorry Linux). 

[3 Lions]

17 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Overall MacOS is just a nicer environment to be in.

 

17 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

windows is a buggy pile of crap

The problem is far too many people also say these things. 

[GDRRiley]

18 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

You do realise GarageBand and iMovie are both free right? I mean if you’re talking paid versions you’re gonna have to compare them against Logic (lol have fun) and Final Cut. 
 

Coding is objectively better on Mac

Content creation is better as you have access to literally every piece of software on MacOS, Windows and Linux.  

 

Portability of the Mac is better as you don’t need a mouse and don’t have to carry a bulky power brick 

 

The trackpad in general makes working a lot easier and quicker. 

Mac is a lot more cross compatible with Windows than Windows is with it.

reslove has a free teir that smokes iMovie if you learn it.

as someone who codes on both, I'll take windows every day.

Mac lets you use some mac only but you pay a premium for hardware which means in windows you can get smoked at the same buget

Only crazy people edit on a trackpad. Good luck having any power hungry laptop run on battery while doing heavy tasks. Ryzen 4000 also sips power and with a 99wh battery like many macbook pros it should last 16h+ even while watching videos and with a stronger CPU+GPU when needed.

keyboard shortcuts and hotkeys beat moving hards

only cus apple is stubborn. windows works cus Microsoft doesn't care what you run it on apple does.

 

(I mentioned I use at school for the last 4 years both for video production work, TV broadcasting, Coding, I've repaired Mac Pro 2010 and I love them, I also have worked on 2010, 2013 Macbook pro 15 and 2015 13in.) those are also the same macs I've mostly used other than a few different gens of iMacs.

I daily windows at home and in my personal laptop.

[Lord Vile]

3 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

 

The problem is far too many people also say these things. 

I’ve been using my MacBook for everything other than gaming for the last 2~ years and have had no issues. In that 2 years my Windows PC that only has steam, Battle.net and origin on it and has had a myriad of issues.

[Lord Vile]

13 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

reslove has a free teir that smokes iMovie if you learn it.

as someone who codes on both, I'll take windows every day.

Mac lets you use some mac only but you pay a premium for hardware which means in windows you can get smoked at the same buget

Only crazy people edit on a trackpad. Good luck having any power hungry laptop run on battery while doing heavy tasks. Ryzen 4000 also sips power and with a 99wh battery like many macbook pros it should last 16h+ even while watching videos and with a stronger CPU+GPU when needed.

keyboard shortcuts and hotkeys beat moving hards

only cus apple is stubborn. windows works cus Microsoft doesn't care what you run it on apple does.

 

(I mentioned I use at school for the last 4 years both for video production work, TV broadcasting, Coding, I've repaired Mac Pro 2010 and I love them, I also have worked on 2010, 2013 Macbook pro 15 and 2015 13in.) those are also the same macs I've mostly used other than a few different gens of iMacs.

I daily windows at home and in my personal laptop.

Would also argue that iMovie is better suited for its use as a built in light video editor similar to movie maker. If you’re wanting something with the power of Resolve you’re probably gonna want the paid version or Final Cut because those export times and it’s for editing not grading. Or if you’re going free I’d look at lightworks for editing. 
 

You can’t code for Linux on windows though whereas you can on Mac cos that Unix life. 
 

You can edit on final cut with a trackpad fairly easily? And was more in the portability front the MacBook Pro charger is a wall plug and a wire rather than for example Razer has the classic plug to brick to laptop. The Apple chargers take up about the same amount of space as my phone charger, in fact if I go out with my laptop I only take the laptop charger and my phone wire. 
 

 

 

 

 

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

Didn't I agreed by mentioning that if you based the use cases of the majority, a Chromebook would be enough ?? ;

 

 

But then, if you want to stretch that, a cheap Android tablet would be enough (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and similar use case for the majority) ... Hell, you can even get cheap keyboards with trackpads for that tablet to use with the mobile version of Office if your a student.

 

You can argue all you want about use cases but preferences HAVE to be worked into it, just like some people prefer a desktop over a laptop, or some people prefer a type of keyboard over another, some people prefer a specific environment / OS, and they won't accept something else, even if it's ok or unimportant for you. If you don't agree with that, then you have to agree that the majority doesn't need more than a $50 Android tablet since YT and FB is all they use their device for.

 

I'm aware I'm stretching it, but it's to make a point, that your opinion on use cases is, for some people, just as much of a stretch.

 

And FYI, I don't have a Mac and will never have one, same goes for an iPhone. But that doesn't mean that people having those devices are wrong.

 

II know someone who basically only has a midrange android phone, everything is done on it. 

 

42 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

You do realise GarageBand and iMovie are both free right? I mean if you’re talking paid versions you’re gonna have to compare them against Logic (lol have fun) and Final Cut. 
 

Coding is objectively better on Mac

Content creation is better as you have access to literally every piece of software on MacOS, Windows and Linux.  

 

Portability of the Mac is better as you don’t need a mouse and don’t have to carry a bulky power brick 

 

The trackpad in general makes working a lot easier and quicker. 

Mac is a lot more cross compatible with Windows than Windows is with it.

 

Overall MacOS is just a nicer environment to be in. I’ve had 0 issues with my MacBook Air or Pro on the hardware or software front and my desktop which runs windows and has been relegated solely to gaming duty I’ve had countless software hiccups through multiple clean windows installs. Think I’ve posted some of the issues earlier in this thread but windows is a buggy pile of crap and I would happily pay the extra on an equally specced MacBook vs a Windows PC just to get away from windows and have a somewhat useable experience (sorry Linux). 

 

In your subjective opinion.  Something might be better for your situation on mac, for others a linux variant is way more beneficial and for others again it is windows.  It really is the end user who decides what is best for them based on the software they want/need to use.  You can't blanket claim Mac is objectively better.

 

"bulky power brick" not every laptop has one of those,  if you are using something that performs better on an niivida GPU then mac isn't exactly the goto device,  if you need something that can be minimized right down to the kernel and security features then linux is your goto system there,  if you want to play lots of games then windows is obviously a better choice.   It really comes down to the user.  

 

My son tried garage band when he first started music, he also tried eaper, ableton and cubase before he settled on FL studio.   Of all the entry level versions of these products it was FL that he preferred as it suited his creative process best.   FL studio works just as well on his windows PC as it will on any mac, so there is absolutely no objective benefit to him in using a mac over windows.   The choice to use a mac or not to use a mac is personal preference and that is not objective but subjective. 

 

EDIT: should add that he is quite accomplished now and while he does use ableton when he has to for school, his preferred is still FL to the point we spent a bucket load on it.  He can use it on any machine he buys now and in the future which makes the whole debate about windows v mac a moot argument.

[Curious Pineapple]

13 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I’ve been using my MacBook for everything other than gaming for the last 2~ years and have had no issues. In that 2 years my Windows PC that only has steam, Battle.net and origin on it and has had a myriad of issues.

I have zero Windows issues over multiple machines, it did however take over a week to try and reinstall OSX on a Mac Mini as simply obtaining an image was a nightmare. In the end I had to install Snow Leopard from a disk, upgrade that to Tiger?, download Yosemite, burn that then reinstall from disk again.

 

If I want an EULA breaking hackintosh however it takes 5 minutes to find a disk image that will boot fine in a VM, allow me to download a DMG and flash that to USB. So much for making the "right" thing to do easy.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

I have zero Windows issues over multiple machines, it did however take over a week to try and reinstall OSX on a Mac Mini as simply obtaining an image was a nightmare. In the end I had to install Snow Leopard from a disk, upgrade that to Tiger?, download Yosemite, burn that then reinstall from disk again.

 

If I want an EULA breaking hackintosh however it takes 5 minutes to find a disk image that will boot fine in a VM, allow me to download a DMG and flash that to USB. So much for making the "right" thing to do easy.

Lots of people have zero issue in windows, one day people will realize that their personal experience is not indicative of everything.   "I had a bad hotdog once from a service station" does not equal "All service stations are dangerous places that constantly sell tainted food".

 

 

[Curious Pineapple]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Lots of people have zero issue in windows, one day people will realize that their personal experience is not indicative of everything.   "I had a bad hotdog once from a service station" does not equal "All service stations are dangerous places that constantly sell tainted food".

 

 

Never said it was indicative of everything

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Never said it was indicative of everything

I know, I was agreeing with you.

EDIT: I also have not had any problems since moving to win 10. (however many years ago that offer was).

 

[Curious Pineapple]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I know, I was agreeing with you.

EDIT: I also have not had any problems since moving to win 10. (however many years ago that offer was).

 

My bad, misread what you said. I shall go hide in the corner of shame.

[Lord Vile]

29 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Lots of people have zero issue in windows, one day people will realize that their personal experience is not indicative of everything.   "I had a bad hotdog once from a service station" does not equal "All service stations are dangerous places that constantly sell tainted food".

 

 

Well your analogy is flawed but windows being a buggy pile of crap isn’t exactly an radical notion it’s lucky if you don’t have issues with it. Just google windows 10 bugs and you’ll find loads of fairly major ones not just random ones like the search bar not loading. Remember when they launched a major update that wiped people’s files? I mean that wasn’t a thing. And personally I’ve had issues with it on essentially a new PCs with new install media on a new licence. 

[Curious Pineapple]

8 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Well your analogy is flawed but windows being a buggy pile of crap isn’t exactly an radical notion it’s lucky if you don’t have issues with it. Just google windows 10 bugs and you’ll find loads of fairly major ones not just random ones like the search bar not loading. Remember when they launched a major update that wiped people’s files? I mean that wasn’t a thing. And personally I’ve had issues with it on essentially a new PCs with new install media on a new licence. 

Remember when upgrading to Yosemite caused an un-fixable kernel panic on startup? That Windows update didn't wipe files, it just didn't restore the user profile correctly. The data was still there.

[Lord Vile]

4 minutes ago, Curious Pineapple said:

Remember when upgrading to Yosemite caused an un-fixable kernel panic on startup? That Windows update didn't wipe files, it just didn't restore the user profile correctly. The data was still there.

If you’re lucky a lot of people had everything wiped. And which one it’s happened several times over the last few years.

[GDRRiley]

54 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Would also argue that iMovie is better suited for its use as a built in light video editor similar to movie maker. If you’re wanting something with the power of Resolve you’re probably gonna want the paid version or Final Cut because those export times and it’s for editing not grading. Or if you’re going free I’d look at lightworks for editing. 
 

You can’t code for Linux on windows though whereas you can on Mac cos that Unix life. 
 

You can edit on final cut with a trackpad fairly easily? And was more in the portability front the MacBook Pro charger is a wall plug and a wire rather than for example Razer has the classic plug to brick to laptop. The Apple chargers take up about the same amount of space as my phone charger, in fact if I go out with my laptop I only take the laptop charger and my phone wire. 

 

iMove sucks. 
there is windows subsystem for Linux. 
I’ve edited and watched my gf edit on a trackpad but guess what’s quicker, mouse+Hotkeys. 
I’m just thinking about magsafe2 cus that’s what all the laptops I’ve used have. My hp had a tiny 65w brick or I can use usbc. the wall mount charger also is just a plug space hog. 
most modern laptops can get some power from usbc even if 65w isn’t enough for long term heavy use. 

[IntMD]

16 hours ago, Twilight said:

holy crap that's cool! the oldest Mac I have is a 1998 iMac G3 Rev B.. 

 

I was offered a PowerBook G3 but I didn't take it because I had too much stuff at the time and it was missing a charger... I deeply regret that now. 

We had to use these in Primary school and early Secondary school until about 1998/1999 when they got some Compaq PCs. They were terrible even when we used them.

[mr moose]

24 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Well your analogy is flawed but windows being a buggy pile of crap isn’t exactly an radical notion it’s lucky if you don’t have issues with it. Just google windows 10 bugs and you’ll find loads of fairly major ones not just random ones like the search bar not loading. Remember when they launched a major update that wiped people’s files? I mean that wasn’t a thing. And personally I’ve had issues with it on essentially a new PCs with new install media on a new licence. 

 

Sure thing...