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JForce

Modern cars a privacy nightmare - WP hacked a car to find out what data is being collected/sent home

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Posted · Original PosterOP

This to me isn't getting as much coverage as it should - obviously modern cars collect more data than ever before, but the breadth of it is surprising, and the complete lack of privacy controls or standards makes the big tech companies look like model corporate citizens...

 

Jalopnik Summary

Original Washington Post Investigation

 

.....a Washington Post investigation that hacked into a 2017 Chevy Volt to see what data the car hoovers up. The answer is: yikes.

Quote

Among the trove of data points were unique identifiers for my and Doug’s [the car’s owner] phones, and a detailed log of phone calls from the previous week. There was a long list of contacts, right down to people’s address, emails and even photos.

 

In our Chevy, we probably glimpsed just a fraction of what GM knows. We didn’t see what was uploaded to GM’s computers, because we couldn’t access the live OnStar cellular connection.

 

Mason has hacked into Fords that record locations once every few minutes, even when you don’t use the navigation system. He’s seen German cars with 300-gigabyte hard drives — five times as much as a basic iPhone 11. The Tesla Model 3 can collect video snippets from the car’s many cameras. Coming next: face data, used to personalize the vehicle and track driver attention.

 

 

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Yeah read this today. Absolutely horrifying. and non-regulated...


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That is definitely unnerving, this needs to get more publicity from the public. One problem is most of them probably wouldn't even care about it. The amount of people I know that don't care about their own privacy is shocking to say the least. Trading privacy for convenience is not a fair trade.


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Not only is frightening to see how much data is collected by these companies and cars, but that these cars can be hacked revealling this collection. Not to mention the concerns with remote control of your vehicle too...

 

I can't help but think there is going to a massive incident with these electronic vehicles and regulations will have to be put in place. Until then... 

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Sadly this hasn't been "news" for a long time in the automotive scene, none-enthusiasts are just starting to notice it, but it didn't start getting that bad until inbuilt Wifi became more and more of a feature on vehicles, but the wheels were in motion before that point.

Even sadder, and kind of a rant, i have classic car enthusiast friends who you would usually think would be very much against this, that work at major automakers and i suppose because of the cooperate culture they've been defending all this like mad since it first started ramping up a few years ago with initial qualms that had more to do with consumer rights, fixing ones own car, on your own, properly etc, but now with everything being Wifi connected the argument is still very much "you don't actually own this, but you can use it" sort of mentality from some of these folks, which is annoying when you hear it from say somebody who works at GM, yet drives/races and collects classic cars that typify the opposite of such attitudes. 

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Isn’t the location information reporting part of an anti-theft feature that is part of on-star? The idea is that on-star always knows where the vehicle is so that police can be sent to its location when it is reported stolen.

 

That being said. I drive a car that is over 20 years old, so I do not need to worry about this. :)

 

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It would make sense that when paring your phone to your car that it syncs contacts, messages, call logs etc - been pretty standard since we have been able to pair phones to cars using bluetooth. This allows for greater functionality and increased responsiveness when using these features from your car. 
Location is that much of a shock either, everybody knows your location already (google, network carrier, microsoft, many apps) and this might be helpful when the car is stolen.

 

Unfortunatelly this is type of thing is standard in our day and age, not that I agree with it. You either accept it or don't use technology.

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12 minutes ago, ouroesa said:

It would make sense that when paring your phone to your car that it syncs contacts, messages, call logs etc - been pretty standard since we have been able to pair phones to cars using bluetooth. This allows for greater functionality and increased responsiveness when using these features from your car. 
Location is that much of a shock either, everybody knows your location already (google, network carrier, microsoft, many apps) and this might be helpful when the car is stolen.

 

Unfortunatelly this is type of thing is standard in our day and age, not that I agree with it. You either accept it or don't use technology.

I am not sure how the location stuff is surprising. Antitheft tracking could not work without reporting location:

 

https://www.onstar.com/us/en/support/theft-alarm-notification/

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I thought people already knew this?  They are essentially mobile versions of google home and alexa.


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2 hours ago, JForce said:

Modern cars a privacy nightmare - WP hacked a car to find out what data is being collected/sent home

This is stuff that I've been railing about on e.g. Ars Technica's comments-section for years now. Like I've mentioned there multiple times, my clunker from 2003 is in a lot of ways better than the cars being made at the moment: the clunker is easier and cheaper to repair, it doesn't track me, doesn't send my data to any third parties, doesn't need firmware-updates and the only thing you can do to it remotely is open the door-locks and even then, you need to be within 10 meters to do that.


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43 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

This is stuff that I've been railing about on e.g. Ars Technica's comments-section for years now. Like I've mentioned there multiple times, my clunker from 2003 is in a lot of ways better than the cars being made at the moment: the clunker is easier and cheaper to repair, it doesn't track me, doesn't send my data to any third parties, doesn't need firmware-updates and the only thing you can do to it remotely is open the door-locks and even then, you need to be within 10 meters to do that.

I think cars from the late 90's/early 00's had the perfect amount of computer, mechanical, (and low weight) mix that just made them so much more enjoyable as cars.

Now cars are just driving iPads. And I don't get it.. I work in tech and just feel like I want to get away from the tech sometimes and get a breath of fresh air you know? Why are we so obsessed? Hopping in my "old" miata on the ride home and taking backroads is enjoyable to me. I get to get away from all the technology and just enjoy the drive home.

 

not saying modern cars don't have their benefits. Just.. why can't we keep things simple?


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Jokes on them still driving my 93 FIAT junker with all analog indicators, I know jack about cars but I know how to mess with it if it fails and managed to replace old light bulbs with LEDs so drivers behind can see my turn signals


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Don't buy them :)


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Scary but the internet is way worse and people STILL use facebook


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D🅾🅼🅸🅽🅰🆃🅾r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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People with old cars that not only don't collect masses of data, but also have good 'ole double DIN setups so you can actually swap the stereo out if you need moar boom for your hardbass:

 

512.jpg.5398ba4aa8501f3a07a9e22dc37ad25b.jpg

2002 F50 gang


X58-X79-X99-X299 lads: Intel HEDT Xeon/i7 Megathread

 

Big Rig (Completed) - (Current) - i7 5960X - 4.7Ghz/3.7Ghz ~ 1.3v/1.1v core/uncore - 76-78C under RealBench load- Custom Loop: 2x 360GTS with EK-ZMT/Stubbies and EK D5 pump/res combo - EVGA X99 Classified - 32GB (4x8GB) HyperX Predator DDR4 - 3200MHz CL16 - AMD Radeon VII (best TimeSpy so far: here) - 1TB 970 Evo - Corsair RM1000i - Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX TG - 6x iPPC NF-F12 2000 - 45" 4K LG TV

 

Planned Desk Rig - i7 5820K - Noctua NH-L12S - EVGA X99 Micro 2 - 16GB (4x4GB) EVGA SSC DDR4 - EVGA XC Ultra 1660 Ti - 250GB 960 Evo - Seagate Firecuda 2TB - Seagate BarraCuda Pro 1TB - Corsair CX550 - Fractal Design Meshify C Mini - LG 25UM56-P - 25" 2560x1080 at 75Hz

X79 (waiting on mobo/CPU/RAM) - i7 4930K - EVGA CLC 280 - EVGA X79 Dark - 16GBGB (4x4GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 - 2x EVGA Classified 780s - MX500 1TB - EVGA 1600W T2 - Corsair Air 540 - 3x NF-P12 Redux 

 

Planned X58 rig - Xeon X5670 - NH-D15S - EVGA X58 Classified SLI 4-Way - 24GB (3x8GB) HyperX Savage Red DDR3 - Undecided GPUS - probably a basic SSD - EVGA 1000W G3 - Undecided Case

 

I lowkey enjoy HEDT

 

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The most advanced part of my car is the ECU, and that's from 1997. Originally it had a carb and distributor but there's only so much misfiring and refusal to start in the cold that I was willing to take.

 

It will soon be getting a "body" computer which controls all lights, wipers, locking, face recognition camera, GPS and mobile comms, but that's something I'm building myself and will be reporting back to a Raspberry Pi on my desk.


Probably banned for disagreeing

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15 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

I think cars from the late 90's/early 00's had the perfect amount of computer, mechanical, (and low weight) mix that just made them so much more enjoyable as cars.

Now cars are just driving iPads. And I don't get it.. I work in tech and just feel like I want to get away from the tech sometimes and get a breath of fresh air you know? Why are we so obsessed? Hopping in my "old" miata on the ride home and taking backroads is enjoyable to me. I get to get away from all the technology and just enjoy the drive home.

 

not saying modern cars don't have their benefits. Just.. why can't we keep things simple?

Well happy to read I'm not the only one feeling like this...

There is no need for cars being filled with so much tech. Like, the most modern car I drove was a BMW from 2017 and it just felt like the tech was trying to mask what an absolute piece of shit it actually is. (it ended up cornering worse than my mothers opel from 1999 and I couldn't even gap a stupid dacia sandero...)

 

I got so fed up I bought a JDM car from 2001 straight from japan just to make sure I will have an "old" car that I actually enjoy to drive in the future.

 

I'm not saying tech is bad or we shouldn't try to improve stuff, but sometimes I wonder like "do we really need to add tech to this?".


If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

Spying on everyone to fight against terrorism is like shooting a mosquito with a cannon

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Just give me the ability to ACTUALLY disable the WiFi and cellular networks and I'll be ok with having it in newer cars.

Problem solved.


Main Rig: cpu: Intel 6600k OC @ 4.5Ghz; gpu: Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 2080 (OC'd); mb: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3; ram: 16 GB (2x8GB) 3000 G.Skill Ripjaws V; psu: EVGA 650BQ; storage: 500GB Samsung 850 evo, 2TB WD Black; case: Cooler Master HAF 912; cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, Lots of fans, Air!; display: 4k Samsung 42" TV, Asus MX259H 1080p audio: Schiit Audio Magni Amp w/ Audio Technica M50x

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20 hours ago, emosun said:

Suddenly the pontiac aztek looking pretty good

"Ugly , but doesn't spy on you!"

Neither does a 2010 Corolla or Camry.

"Inoffensive looking, and doesn't spy on you."

19 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Not only is frightening to see how much data is collected by these companies and cars, but that these cars can be hacked revealling this collection. Not to mention the concerns with remote control of your vehicle too...

 

I can't help but think there is going to a massive incident with these electronic vehicles and regulations will have to be put in place. Until then... 

I'm pretty sure Jeep recalled a car after it was discovered to be relatively easy to hack and control literally everything from the vehicle wirelessly. The internal locking system, the windows, cameras, steering, throttle, brakes, air conditioning...

 

17 hours ago, WereCatf said:

This is stuff that I've been railing about on e.g. Ars Technica's comments-section for years now. Like I've mentioned there multiple times, my clunker from 2003 is in a lot of ways better than the cars being made at the moment: the clunker is easier and cheaper to repair, it doesn't track me, doesn't send my data to any third parties, doesn't need firmware-updates and the only thing you can do to it remotely is open the door-locks and even then, you need to be within 10 meters to do that.

Yeah, I remember getting insurance and they talking about the "safe driver" thing and I asked how it worked. It's literally just a GPS tracker you plug into your cars OBD. "Yeah, fuck that, next?"

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if you want the modern luxuries minus the data collecting, buy an old blown engine from the auction, and install a crate engine, and get rid off all that nonsensical crap recording your every move.

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On 12/18/2019 at 7:53 PM, bcredeur97 said:

I think cars from the late 90's/early 00's had the perfect amount of computer, mechanical, (and low weight) mix that just made them so much more enjoyable as cars.

nah early 90's was where it was at.

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