apple Louis Rossmann just had 20 Apple batteries seized by US Customs

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, HashBrowns said:

Yeah they are doing it "legally", but Apple is exploiting it with their "counterfeit" seizures   Louis has a video about the counterfeit exploitation they are using and could explain it a lot better than me tbh

I’m sorry but what Louis says is not evidence that Apple is telling Customs to seiz “counterfeit” parts. 

[aezakmi]

1 hour ago, DaPhuc said:

Apple is corrupted. 

No, the government has been corrupted, by Apple.

[HashBrowns]

26 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I’m sorry but what Louis says is not evidence that Apple is telling Customs to seiz “counterfeit” parts. 

if you look at the documents in the video, Apple has a relationship (or w/e) with Customs to seize these "counterfeit" parts. That's very clear I think.

Also, check here, at the 2:20 mark. They are assuming it's a "counterfeit" part, just because it has an Apple logo. What if they were genuine parts?

[Syntaxvgm]

They are not counterfeit batteries, they have no right to do this legally. 

But by claiming they are counterfeit, they can seize first and ask questions later, meanwhile anyone the size of louis will drown in legal debt before winning this. 

[Syntaxvgm]

41 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I’m sorry but what Louis says is not evidence that Apple is telling Customs to seiz “counterfeit” parts. 

this is not the first time apple has done this. 

Here's one where they stopped "counterfeit products" that were not advertised as original, and the only parts with the apple logo were actually original as the parts were a combination of apple and third party, basically refurbs. Their entire argument was about the apple logo, which was on a legit cable. 
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evk4wk/dhs-seizes-iphone-screens-jessa-jones

[DrMacintosh]

12 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

this is not the first time apple has done this. 

Here's one where they stopped "counterfeit products" that were not advertised as original, and the only parts with the apple logo were actually original as the parts were a combination of apple and third party, basically refurbs. Their entire argument was about the apple logo, which was on a legit cable. 
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/evk4wk/dhs-seizes-iphone-screens-jessa-jones

Again, this is not evidence that Apple has drafted Homeland Security or customs to seize these items for them. Also I think you are equating "they" to include Apple and the Federal government as if they were working together on this, which is something that, again, I've seen no evidence of. 

[Razor Blade]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Again, this is not evidence that Apple has drafted Homeland Security or customs to seize these items for them. Also I think you are equating "they" to include Apple and the Federal government as if they were working together on this, which is something that, again, I've seen no evidence of. 

It is actually very easy to report something to CBP.

https://eallegations.cbp.gov/Home/Index2

 

Since reports aren't provided to the public, it is difficult to know if Louis was reported by Apple. Could have been a random thing too. The world may never know.

[Spotty]

2 minutes ago, HashBrowns said:

if you look at the documents in the video, Apple has a relationship (or w/e) with Customs to seize these "counterfeit" parts. That's very clear I think.

What? The only mention of Apple in the documents is when the United States Border and Customs Protection office outlines which trademark was infringed upon and provides the information of the trademark holder. There is nothing whatsoever in those documents to suggest any involvement from Apple.

 

Quote

This is to notify you that U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) seized the property described below at Louisville, Kentucky on September 6, 2018:

It was US CBP that seized the property. At this stage there is no evidence to suggest Apple had any involvement in the matter whatsoever, or was even aware of the shipment being seized.

 

 

 

Considering the accusations Rosmann is launching against Apple's involvement in this - without any proof to back up his claims - I wonder if Apple will sue Rosmman for slander. Considering in the video Rosmann states that his intent is to cause financial harm to the company of Apple (6:45), it will be extremely difficult for him to defend against any slander accusations if taken to court.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

They are not counterfeit batteries, they have no right to do this legally. 

Proof? Have you had the specific batteries that were seized in this case reviewed by an independent expert to confirm that they are indeed genuine?

 

On one hand we have the US Government (Border and Customs Protection Office), who have held the items, reviewed and inspected them, and subsequently seized them, issuing a legal document that states the items are counterfeit or contain counterfeit markings.
On the other hand we have a youtuber, who has not even seen the items, claiming that they might possibly be real, suggesting the possibility that they might be genuine parts taken from older machines, but ultimately does not know the status of the items or their source and is merely speculating possibilities without even considering the possibility that the supplier, outside of Rosmann's control, may have sent a bad shipment of counterfeit goods. This person is also making false and misleading claims that the seizure of the items (Dated September 6th) was in retaliation for a media article published (Dated October 9th) relating to the company who owns the intellectual property on the goods that were seized.

 

My opinion on this matter is formed on the basis of the information that is currently available. Until we have information to suggest otherwise, I have no reason to doubt the information provided in the legal notice provided by the US BCP.

[HashBrowns]

9 minutes ago, Spotty said:

What? The only mention of Apple in the documents is when the United States Border and Customs Protection office outlines which trademark was infringed upon and provides the information of the trademark holder. There is nothing whatsoever in those documents to suggest any involvement from Apple.

Okay, sorry, it's not Apple's fault whatsoever. Let's just put all 100% blame on the people passing these laws. Apple was not involved at all!

 

[Blademaster91]

43 minutes ago, HashBrowns said:

if you look at the documents in the video, Apple has a relationship (or w/e) with Customs to seize these "counterfeit" parts. That's very clear I think.

Also, check here, at the 2:20 mark. They are assuming it's a "counterfeit" part, just because it has an Apple logo. What if they were genuine parts?

Well as mentioned with other examples like iphone screens being seized, and how much Apple is against right to repair and 3rd parties, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Apple were at least reporting certain parts sellers to the US Customs.

[Canada EH]

3 hours ago, DaPhuc said:

Apple is corrupted. 

Apple?

 

True but wrong

 

We all know the government is corrupted.

 

I have had thousands of batteries come through customs in the mail.

[S w a t s o n]

Spoiler

 

I mean the guy literally shat on Apple on the National Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, plus he's got big history with Apple already. They knew who's batteries they were seizing.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

So would refurbished batteries fall under "counterfeit"? 

[Syntaxvgm]

41 minutes ago, Spotty said:

 

 

 

Proof? Have you had the specific batteries that were seized in this case reviewed by an independent expert to confirm that they are indeed genuine?

 

There are no independent experts, not how that works. Read below
 

52 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Again, this is not evidence that Apple has drafted Homeland Security or customs to seize these items for them. Also I think you are equating "they" to include Apple and the Federal government as if they were working together on this, which is something that, again, I've seen no evidence of. 

We don't know for sure yet, but here's some things to note. 


1. This doesn't happen to other non-counterfit electronics parts as far as I'm aware. This is not typical. 
 

2. They did this in norway too in the form of a lawsuit, and these were refurbs too. They lost. 

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/13/apple-lawsuit-repair-shop-norway/

3. This is a well known tactic of apple, it just typically happens to people that are less famous and people dont fight them. Everyone knows to avoid any third party parts with the apple logo, and even refurbs (which are legal). No one else uses this tactic, even again actual counterfeits, as "actual counterfeits" are typically not sold as original and bear the logo because they are made in the same factory, and just have the logo sharpied out sometimes. 

https://www.laweekly.com/news/fake-iphone-parts-alleged-to-be-worth-250-000-seized-in-san-gabriel-valley-three-arrested-2388286
https://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1788191-iPhone-screens-seized-by-US-Customs-cell-Phone-repair-is-illegal!
https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/249947/iPhone+screens+seized+by+customs
https://www.local10.com/news/federal-agents-raid-smartphone-repair-shops_20151127205611881

No other company that makes consumer electronics that I know of feel it is in their interest to crack down on people repairing their devices, even with legal parts, using these means.  They typically only go after people selling counterfeit devices anyway, because that's actually undercutting them in a real way. 

4. Usually for any action to happen, Apple has to make a request to the government to have the stuff seized. It is up to the trademark owners to protect their trademark, and this is a trademark case. They typically report suspected trade violation to the CBP, like so here.

https://eallegations.cbp.gov/Home/Index2

CBP can just do it anyway of course, and believe it or not, in both cases they ask apple to verify if they are counterfeit or not, and apple can basically say "we don't know" and they are rejected. Apple is the final say, and they can claim "we can't tell" on legit parts all they want, perfectly legal to do that. They're not required to give a yes or no. 
The ONLY way the CPB does this automatically is if the manifest said "apple something" on it and they just seize that shit just in case. Why? This is a thing they are watching for. I wonder why. You can register your desire for them to watch for counterfeits of trademarked products. The CBP also lets trademark holders flag recipients for scrutiny. 


5. Up until very recently, Rolex used this kind of abuse of the system to seize any known Rolex watch entering the country. This included counterfeits of course, but legit watches and stamped parts were not allowed either. To order a rolex from outside the us, you had to deal with a seller who knew how to work around this. Typically, you are supposed to be fine ship 1 or two of them as a clear personal buyer, but ship more and they would be seized guaranteed, even if legit. Many people claimed to have their single watch shipments seized anyway.  
 Oh, and you can buy a "rolex" Chinese fake on the streets of new york for less than 20$. I know, I've seen it myself in 2009-2010, and I still hear this comparison. They were targeting legit ones and repair. The only legit way to get a rolex here was to wear or declare on a flight with a person. You could carry or wear ONE

6. There is no legit way to buy these parts, nor will apple fix the devices they are intended for.
 

7. Apple holds no grey market import restrictions as they likely don't qualify for it, being a worldwide trademark. 
 

https://iprs.cbp.gov/Pages/ResultDetail.aspx?id=103916&searchText=Apple AND Inc

People are alleging this is because Louis rossman just fire a big shot at apple on a major Canadian network. This is enough time for them to add him to a list and for a shipment to be intercepted. I doubt this, he was probably already on this list if they do the additional scrutiny option

 

[bbbbbbb99]

2 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So would refurbished batteries fall under "counterfeit"? 

The dictionary, no. But us customs and apple yes. Any part with apple logo not shipped by apple is "counterfeit" no matter what it really is

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

3 minutes ago, bbbbbbb99 said:

The dictionary, no. But us customs and apple yes. Any part with apple logo not shipped by apple is "counterfeit" no matter what it really is

So essentially even importing a legitimate Apple computer from overseas would be seen as "counterfeit" when it crosses the border. Great... 

[imreloadin]

As far as the batteries go couldn't all of this be sidestepped by just not printing the Apple logo on the battery? I mean if it is the correct specifications for the device model then it should still work regardless of what logo is on the thing. If Apple won't support the device it's not like Rossman's customer has to worry about daddy Apple seeing "unauthorized" parts in it or am I missing something here?

[Spotty]

Just now, S w a t s o n said:

I mean the guy literally shat on Apple on the National Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, plus he's got big history with Apple already They knew who's batteries they were seizing.

FYI, the batteries were seized more than a month before the CBC report was published.

 

Also, it was the Customs and Border Protection that seized the property. Apple has no right to seize property.

 

 

Just now, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

So would refurbished batteries fall under "counterfeit"? 

If the batteries were modified in a way such as the cells inside the battery were replaced with non Apple OEM battery cells and remained branded as genuine Apple parts without any notice that the item was a refurbished part - Yes.

 

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

2. They did this in norway too in the form of a lawsuit, and these were refurbs too. They lost. 
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/13/apple-lawsuit-repair-shop-norway/

Did you read what you are referencing?
 

Quote

The court decided that Norwegian law "does not prohibit a Norwegian mobile repair person from importing mobile screens from Asian manufacturers that are 100 percent compatible and completely identical to Apple's own iPhone screens, so long as Apple's trademark is not applied to the product." [...]

In that instance the third party replacement parts used were not branded as Apple^TM parts and did not infringe on any trademark. This is a notable difference from this instance when the legal notice issued by the CBP states that the counterfeit items infringed upon trademarked branding. Also, different country & different laws.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

4. Apple has to make a request to the government to have the stuff seized. It is up to the trademark owners to protect their trademark, and this is a trademark case. They typically report suspected trade violation to the CBP, like so here.
https://eallegations.cbp.gov/Home/Index2

This is just absolutely false.
Customs routinely inspects packages to identify contraband entering the country, such as drugs, weapons, and counterfeit goods. In addition to this, companies and individuals do have the ability to report to the CBP of suspected counterfeit goods or shipments, however it is not required for a company to do this in order for a shipment to be seized.

 

For example, in the Eric Lundgreen case of counterfeiting Microsoft install CDs, Microsoft wasn't aware of or involved in the case until after the shipments were seized and a federal investigation was launched in to the importation of the counterfeit CDs. Microsoft was only involved during subsequent legal proceedings to help determine the value of the counterfeit items for the court.
 

Quote

Microsoft did not bring this case: U.S. Customs referred the case to federal prosecutors after intercepting shipments of counterfeit software imported from China by Mr. Lundgren.

 

Microsoft did not bring the case

Microsoft did not bring the case against Mr. Lundgren. It began in 2012 when U.S. Customs intercepted shipments of counterfeit CDs that Mr. Lundgren was sending to his co-defendant in the United States. Customs warned the parties about the issue, but the shipments continued.

In total, between June 2011 and November 2013, Mr. Lundgren caused counterfeit discs to be shipped to his co-defendant, directly or indirectly, in the United States. Lundgren received $92,000 in wire transfers and PayPal payments for the counterfeits from his co-defendant.

Customs authorities referred the case to federal prosecutors. The United States Attorney’s Office in Miami pressed charges and Mr. Lundgren pleaded guilty. Microsoft was called as an expert witness toward the end of the legal proceedings.

_{https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-facts-about-a-recent-counterfeiting-case-brought-by-the-u-s-government/}

 

14 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

CBP can just do it anyway, and believe it or not, they ask apple to verify if they are counterfit or not, and apple can basically say "we don't know" and they are rejected. Apple is the final say, and they can claim "we can't tell" on legit parts all they want, perfectly legal. 

The CBP can seek advice from the trademark holder to determine if the item is counterfeit or not, typically during court proceedings, however the company will need to provide a signed declaration to the court regarding the authenticity of the items. If the matter is taken to court and the company is found to have made a false declaration, that company could face severe penalties - more so than the cost of $1000 worth of batteries.
 

17 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

The ONLY way the CPB does this automatically is if the manifest said "apple something" on it and they just seize that shit just in case. Why? This is a thing they are watching for. I wonder why.

Consumer electronics and parts make up roughly 16% of counterfeit goods seized by US customs, and accounts for approximately 10% of the financial value of counterfeit goods seized. Almost 90% of those counterfeit goods originate from either China or Hong Kong.
The most likely reason why these were detected by customs is simply the fact that counterfeit electronics and parts from China are something that US CBP are screening for on a regular basis when processing packages/shipments through customs. It's also possible that the sender/supplier is also already known to customs for previously sending counterfeit goods, and thus shipments from that supplier will be flagged for further review when detected.
 

 

8 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

6. There is no legit way to buy these parts, nor will apple fix the devices they are intended for.

Your argument that these must be legitimate and genuine parts is that there is no way to purchase these parts legitimately... What?

 

8 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

People are alleging this is because Louis rossman just fire a big shot at apple on a major Canadian network. This is enough time for them to add him to a list and for a shipment to be intercepted. I doubt this, he was probably already on this list if they do the additional scrutiny option

As already mentioned, the shipment was seized more than a month prior to the CBC report being published. Unless Apple has an iTime Machine, this was not seized in response to the CBC report. Even then, a cooperation can only make a report to the CBP about suspected counterfeit goods, which the CBP will review and proceed to investigate if they feel the report has merit. Apple has no power over the CBP to force them to seize shipments.

[HashBrowns]

21 minutes ago, Spotty said:

FYI, the batteries were seized more than a month before the CBC report was published.

 

Please stop defending Apple dude, seriously  

[Speed Weed]

1 hour ago, Canada EH said:

Apple?

 

True but wrong

 

We all know the government is corrupted.

 

I have had thousands of batteries come through customs in the mail.

Anyone can be corrupted when he/she has too much power. 

[Yoinkerman]

The applesucking in here is hilarious

[Bananasplit_00]

5 hours ago, Spotty said:

So it wasn't that he was importing batteries to be used in Apple devices. It was that he was importing counterfeit batteries that bear trademarked branding.

 

US customs treats counterfeit batteries or other parts and accessories the same as they would treat a counterfeit iPhone or counterfeit Samsung Note 9 from China. They seize it, issue a notice to the recipient and destroy the counterfeit goods. Rosmann should abandon the goods and move on. Not worth fighting US customs on this, and if they are counterfeit items as described in the notice, then he should never have tried importing them in the first place. In future he should stick to generic unbranded replacement parts - not counterfeit replacement parts disguised as being genuine with trademarked branding.

As I understand it from watching his video those were legit batteries taken from in some other way broken devices

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, mate_mate91 said:

You should be ripped off like apple does this! I hope they make even worse products so that anyone who buys their products will need to spend thousands to repair it and when apple refuses to fix it they will need to buy another macbook! That's the only right thing apple does and i agree with it 10000000%! GG apple!

So your solution to solving the issue of companies ripping its customers of is to wish they'd rip them off even more? 

 

What about the Pixel Slate? $600 tablet but comes with a freaking Celeron. 

[GoldenLag]

38 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

As I understand it from watching his video those were legit batteries taken from in some other way broken devices

probably from a somewhat reputable seller.

[D13H4RD]

Just now, GoldenLag said:

probably from a somewhat reputable seller.

It could likely be the same supplier Rossmann has relied on for all this while.