RTG already received first Zen 2 Sample! (Rumour)

[Nicnac]

 

Someone on HardOCP posted this:

Quote

The RTG has just received its first Zen 2 sample (to optimize for) and it's really impressive.

8C/16T

4.0 GHz/4.5 GHz

DDR4-3600 CAS 15

Radeon RX Vega 64 LE

__________________________

The good: It's already nibbling at the Core i7-8700K.

The bad: It crashes a lot.

The ugly: It crashes all the time. Some of the tests have to be run multiple times because they crashed before finishing.

 

Sounds pretty interesting and cool but wait. This isn't just anyone, right?

Well according to WCCFTech (yup...) The guy has built some reputation for having inside info which proved to be true on earlier launches.

 

8cores/16threads sounds great and with an increased IPC (~15% are rumoured) it might be head-to-head with intel's flagship. Also, a 4.5GHz clock seems rather high for Ryzen but I would love to see the next gen hit that target. AMD is going to give Intel a hard time in future, at least that's what I would say.

 

Spoiler

I know... Mini-news and a rumour... Pls don't kill me 

 

[GoldenLag]

Unless AMD is making this architecture really wide that is really unimpressive in terms of clockspeed....... Only explanation is that is a early engineering sample without XFR

 

Edit: i know its probably early engeering sample, instability etc, it also leaves a question around what die config is this?

Edited September 30, 2018 by GoldenLag

[Trixanity]

The timing sounds about right but everything else sounds fishy as hell.

[Emberstone]

Due to the constraints of the Infinity Fabric (e.g. latency), even at 8c/16t and 4.5 GHz it probably won't be overtaking the likes of the 8600K/8700K in gaming, but in productivity it'll kick ass. I'm excited to see what becomes of this.

 

That said, if there's a supposed "Ryzen 5 3600" that sells for $189 or similar with 6c/12t and 8600K/8700K clock speeds, that'll be absolutely tasty for new system builders considering Intel's prices for similar speeds and threads.

[dizmo]

Yay. Hopefully with this iteration those wanting to get the most out of their systems don't have to run around looking for memory modules made by specific companies. Until that garbage is done with, I won't even consider AMD.

 

I also hope they use the money they're taking in from CPU sales and improve their GPU offerings. Vega 56 gets crushed by the likes of the 1070, and often at a lower price. 

[Tech Enthusiast]

Uhm, so, i7-8700 like?

I,... expected a lot more tbh. Like, so much more.

 

Isn't Zen 2 build on 7nm?

If AMD plans on releasing the first 7nm chip and only matches a 8700k, that is like,... useless. Unless it is like 200 bucks tops, this is underwhelming.

Expected Zen 2 to easily crush the upcoming 9000 lineup and be a real alternative for those of us that want the "best". With 8700k like specs it will just be another "for the budget people" kinda deal.

 

All this is considering a release in Q2-2019, due to expecting a 9000+ (or 10.000?) lineup from Intel by then.

[GDRRiley]

2 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Uhm, so, i7-8700 like?

I,... expected a lot more tbh. Like, so much more.

 

Isn't Zen 2 build on 7nm?

If AMD plans on releasing the first 7nm chip and only matches a 8700k, that is like,... useless. Unless it is like 200 bucks tops, this is underwhelming.

Expected Zen 2 to easily crush the upcoming 9000 lineup and be a real alternative for those of us that want the "best". With 8700k like specs it will just be another "for the budget people" kinda deal.

We know the new EPYC chips are on 7NM we asume so is ryzen 3000. 

Beating or matching it is good because at the prices AMD charges it will be almost as fast a 500$ chip. 

It isn't likely too, if you want the best you have to pay the intel tax.  

[PlayStation 2]

8 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Uhm, so, i7-8700 like?

I,... expected a lot more tbh. Like, so much more.

 

Isn't Zen 2 build on 7nm?

If AMD plans on releasing the first 7nm chip and only matches a 8700k, that is like,... useless. Unless it is like 200 bucks tops, this is underwhelming.

Expected Zen 2 to easily crush the upcoming 9000 lineup and be a real alternative for those of us that want the "best". With 8700k like specs it will just be another "for the budget people" kinda deal.

 

All this is considering a release in Q2-2019, due to expecting a 9000+ (or 10.000?) lineup from Intel by then.

To be completely fair, the original Ryzen chips in IPC are around Haswell-level, so if Zen 2's hitting Coffee Lake in IPC that quickly (I think that's the implication?), that's not bad at all. It means it has some headroom. That and apparently this is a very early sample, which would explain why it's super unstable.

[sazrocks]

22 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Yay. Hopefully with this iteration those wanting to get the most out of their systems don't have to run around looking for memory modules made by specific companies. Until that garbage is done with, I won't even consider AMD.

 

I also hope they use the money they're taking in from CPU sales and improve their GPU offerings. Vega 56 gets crushed by the likes of the 1070, and often at a lower price. 

I’m a bit confused here... I thought you can get 3000MHz working with pretty much any memory manufacturer (assuming the stick can actually do it of course), especially with ryzen 2? Much above 3200 is pretty useless too (except for very specific tasks)

 

On topic:

8c/16t? I thought we were going to see at least 12c/24t, especially since we’ve been told that AMD’s 7nm is about half the size. Hopefully this is just a cut down model (3600?).

[PlayStation 2]

2 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

I’m a bit confused here... I thought you can get 3000MHz working with pretty much any memory manufacturer (assuming the stick can actually do it of course), especially with ryzen 2? Much above 3200 is pretty useless too (except for very specific tasks)

You usually can, but his implication is that it's much easier to make the most of it on specific modules. That's one thing that genuinely irritates me about Ryzen, the fact that getting the most out of it memory-wise isn't easy, fun nor cheap, especially when Intel CPUs don't seem to care much.

[TetraSky]

Was hoping AMD would increase the core count a little more for Zen 2, like, 12 core 24 threads.
But hey, this is just a rumour and may very well not be true for all we know.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

Unless AMD is making this architecture really wide that is really unimpressive in terms of clockspeed....... Only explanation is that is a early engineering sample without XFR

 

Edit: i know its probably early engeering sample, instability etc, it also leaves a question around what die config is this?

Rumors are saying that zen 2 is just as much a ground-up design as zen was , so the everything is on the table as far as architectural enhancements are concerned . Though i don't think width is the main limiter for x86 architectures at the moment , but that's another issue entirely.

 

It's most likely an early ES , but even knowing that it might have some healthy OC room

[AlTech]

I hope the price of 8 cores comes down and 6 cores becomes standard in Ryzen 3 (obviously with no SMT)

 

44 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I also hope they use the money they're taking in from CPU sales and improve their GPU offerings. Vega 56 gets crushed by the likes of the 1070, and often at a lower price. 

No?

 

Vega 56 usually destroys or matches the 1070. 1070Ti easily beats Vega 56 but that's not the 1070.

[GoldenLag]

22 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Rumors are saying that zen 2 is just as much a ground-up design as zen was , so the everything is on the table as far as architectural enhancements are concerned . Though i don't think width is the main limiter for x86 architectures at the moment , but that's another issue entirely.

 

It's most likely an early ES , but even knowing that it might have some healthy OC room

Zen 2 is a bigger difference than what Zen+ was. It is the first actual iteration of Zen. There is probably quite some improvements, but its far from a ground up design. It still builds very much on Zen

 

45 minutes ago, Tech Enthusiast said:

Uhm, so, i7-8700 like?

I,... expected a lot more tbh. Like, so much more.

 

Isn't Zen 2 build on 7nm?

If AMD plans on releasing the first 7nm chip and only matches a 8700k, that is like,... useless. Unless it is like 200 bucks tops, this is underwhelming.

Expected Zen 2 to easily crush the upcoming 9000 lineup and be a real alternative for those of us that want the "best". With 8700k like specs it will just be another "for the budget people" kinda deal.

 

All this is considering a release in Q2-2019, due to expecting a 9000+ (or 10.000?) lineup from Intel by then.

Well, this is an engineering sample most likely with no XFR. Key word engeneering sample. Though it might not look all that impressive now it is still 3-5 months untill Rome launch and 6 months untill Ryzen 3000. Max XFR potential is probably not avavible on that chip. Im expecting 20% up from 2700x (4,3ghz) and that will be about 5,1ghz. Offcourse plus minus widening of the architecture and IPC.

[RejZoR]

I don't get it why people continue to parrot the same IPC bullshit about Zen being the same as Haswell. Intel hasn't really improved IPC at all for ages, the only real gains they make between generations is from higher clocks, not from IPC itself.

Edited September 30, 2018 by RejZoR
Typos

[GoldenLag]

12 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

I hope the price of 8 cores comes down and 6 cores becomes standard in Ryzen 3 (obviously with no SMT)

AMD needs to up the corecount. Or at least make all chips SMT enabled. AMD doesnt neccesarly have to up the corecount (i hope they honestly do), but they really need to smash intel at every market tier. 

 

7nm is the new hype and they need to make the bloody most of it. My hope is they invade the mobile scene with fully 7nm APUs. 

12 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Vega 56 usually destroys or matches the 1070. 1070Ti easily beats Vega 56 but that's not the 1070.

You also have the "fine wine" argument. Older GPUs from AMD have really aged well. Also freesync is just a killer deal for people on a "budget". Vega 64 + 1440p 144hz freesync for 1600 isnt bad (including monitor, keyboard, headset and mouse(all good quality and mechanical))

Edited September 30, 2018 by GoldenLag

[Dylanc1500]

8 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I don't get it why people continue to parrot the same IPC bullshit about Zen being the same as Haswell. Intel hasn't really improved IPC at all for ages, the only real gains they make between generations is from higher clocks, not from PC itself.

That's because some use the term IPC incorrectly and others don't make IPC comparisons correctly. It is entirely dependent on which instruction you are using as to how many instructions can be completed per clock, and each instruction is going to be different. In some instructions Intel has quite a lead. It just entirely depends on which one you are making a comparison with.

 

AVX is great example of where they tend to be ahead, especially with AVX-512.

[GoldenLag]

5 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I don't get it why people continue to parrot the same IPC bullshit about Zen being the same as Haswell. Intel hasn't really improved IPC at all for ages, the only real gains they make between generations is from higher clocks, not from PC itself.

Well there is certainly some IPC difference between coffeelake and Zen+ (it between 0-5% is it not?) Most people ignore it as clockspeed is a whole lot easier to talk about and does visualize the difference between the CPUs.

 

Though IPC might become a topic again as there were talk of Intel making their 10nm chips wider to increase IPC.

[Crunchy Dragon]

I don't see myself moving away from my 1600 for quite some time, so not too concerned.

 

It'll be interesting to see how the finished product stacks up against Coffee Lake and the upcoming 9th Gen.

[Mihle]

I personally would not be surprised if they for example went that Threadripper 3 and top end Ryzen 3 gen is 7nm but lower end, higher volume Ryzen 3 gen is still 14 nm.

[GoldenLag]

1 minute ago, Mihle said:

I personally would not be surprised if they for example went that Threadripper 3 and top end Ryzen 3 gen is 7nm but lower end, higher volume Ryzen 3 gen is still 14 nm.

Well...... AMD seem to take an Apple approach to older hardware. Just take a look at the 1200 thats still selling and will continue to be on the market in some form as 14nm Epyc parts still needs to be shipped. 

 

Ever noticed the ever lack of 4 core 12nm Ryzen?

[GoldenLag]

17 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

It'll be interesting to see how the finished product stacks up against Coffee Lake and the upcoming 9th Gen.

The epic battle of 14nm+++ coffelakerefresh vs 7nm Zen 2.

 

Who will be the most un-coredinated participant? The clocks tick as we wait for the results to blend into view

[PianoPlayer88Key]

One way I think of IPC: when limited to 1 thread & locked to X frequency, the CPU that finishes task Z faster has higher IPC.  A CPU that has 25% faster clock & scores 25% higher in benchmarks has same IPC.

160 Cinebench 1T @ 4 GHz & 200 Cinebench 1T @ 5 GHz is the SAME IPC.

 

 

Some things I'd like to see for Zen 2 / Ryzen 3000:

• IPC >= 200 CB15 1T @ <= 4 GHz
• Ryzen 7: 16c/32t, CPU
• Ryzen 5: 12c/24t, APU or CPU
• Ryzen 3: 8c/16t, APU
• Athlon: 6c/12t, APU
• Sempron (or whatever): 4c/8t, APU
• Non-discounted online retail launch prices similar to past MicroCenter Black Friday deals on "equivalent" (in the stack) Intel CPUs (R7X=i7K -looking at you, $219 i7-2600K & Ryzen 7 37/800X), Athlon=Pentium, Sempron=Celeron)
• All as overclockable on stock cooler & voltage as Sandy Bridge, Core 2, G3258, Celeron 300A, etc. (in percentage of all-core OC above stock single-core turbo)

 

As for me though, I'm waiting for DDR5 / AM5 / PCIe 5.0 before I upgrade from my desktop's 4790K.  By then, I hope AMD has jumped farther ahead of where Intel is then, than how far Bulldozer / Vishera was behind Sandy Bridge / Haswell / Skylake, and I can have > 1-4 TB RAM on a mainstream board before considering RDIMMs.

(Also I'm waiting for DDR6 or DDR7 before replacing my laptop and its 6700K.)

 

[Mihle]

26 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Well...... AMD seem to take an Apple approach to older hardware. Just take a look at the 1200 thats still selling and will continue to be on the market in some form as 14nm Epyc parts still needs to be shipped. 

 

Ever noticed the ever lack of 4 core 12nm Ryzen?

I think I ment 12nm and not 14. Remember that is after Epyc is on 7nm.

 

Didn't even notice the lack of 4 core 12nm Ryzen, those might be in gen 3?

[Stefan Payne]

18 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

AVX is great example of where they tend to be ahead, especially with AVX-512.

and also the one point where they could waste the most power, if they are not careful.

As you can see on the other side, where the "TDP" is violated because they redefined the quasi industry standard...

10 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I don't see myself moving away from my 1600 for quite some time, so not too concerned.

Yeah, but it should still be a  drop in replacement to your 1600

1 hour ago, Emberstone said:

Due to the constraints of the Infinity Fabric (e.g. latency), even at 8c/16t and 4.5 GHz it probably won't be overtaking the likes of the 8600K/8700K in gaming

I don't see a reason for this to be true as there are still things that AMD can do to reduce latency and optimize the datapath. And Ryzen is a new architecture...

There is a bit potential.

 

And even with the rather high latency to the Memory, they perform pretty well and are clock for clock not that far away.

 

With DDR4-4000 Memory, the Latency is only 56ns with a 2700x

With DDR4-3466 on a 2600 its 61ns

 

Intel with DDR4-3200 is around 50ns, so it is possible if they work on this a bit.

1 hour ago, Emberstone said:

That said, if there's a supposed "Ryzen 5 3600" that sells for $189 or similar with 6c/12t and 8600K/8700K clock speeds, that'll be absolutely tasty for new system builders considering Intel's prices for similar speeds and threads.

We have to wait and see but for that the 7nm process needs to get cheaper...