Dying while owing paypal money is unacceptable

[spartaman64]

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E-payments company Paypal sent a deceased customer an email more or less stating that the cessation of life functions—and thus an inability for the customer in question to clear their remaining account balance—was a violation of site policy.

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37-year-old UK woman Lindsay Durdle died of breast cancer that had spread to her lungs and brain on May 31st, 2018, her husband Howard Durdle says he provided Paypal with documentation including “her death certificate, her will and his ID, as requested.”

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n response, Paypal wrote the Durdle household a letter reading in part:

Dear Mrs. Lindsay Durdle,

This is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Your account has an outstanding balance of £3,240.72.

Provision of Agreement Breached

You are in breach of condition 15-4(c) of your agreement with Paypal Credit as we have received notice that you are deceased. In accordance with condition 15-4(c), we are entitled to close your account, terminate your agreement and demand repayment of the full amount outstanding.

Nature of Breach

This breach is not capable of remedy.

 

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According to the BBC, Paypal staff told Durdle that this was not supposed to happen, that it was either the result of a bug, bad template, or human error, and written off the debt in the meantime. Durdle told the news agency that while he was “in a reasonable place at the moment,” he is a member of Widowed and Young charity and “seen first-hand in there how a letter like this or something like it can completely derail somebody.”

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According to the Next Web, Paypal sent over a statement apologizing for the incident:

We apologise unreservedly to Mr Durdle for the understandable distress this letter has caused. As soon as we became aware of this mistake, we contacted Mr Durdle directly to offer our support, cleared the outstanding debt and closed down his wife’s account as he requested. We are urgently reviewing our internal processes to ensure this does not happen again.

I have no idea how this happened. I understand wanting to collect money that is owed but there no need to be a dick about it. If its an automated message maybe its more understandable but I'm confused since the letter mentions that the person is deceased so its not like its a completely confused bot.

 

https://gizmodo.com/paypal-dying-while-owing-us-money-is-unacceptable-to-u-1827499095

[Kukielka]

What the actual f**k.

[FloRolf]

How tf do you owe PayPal over 3000£?

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, FloRolf said:

How tf do you owe PayPal over 3000£?

paypal has like a credit card system

[RollinLower]

i think this is a combination of human error and an automated message.

some employee entered the details of the account holder into the system, (this is why it states that she is diseased) and the system pooped out this message stating the facts it now knows.

a bad coincidence i would say.

[RollinLower]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

paypal has like a credit card system

still, who goes in over 3K on a credit card?

[Tech_Dreamer]

First time i'm hearing a ghost being haunted by the living

[Andreas Lilja]

"According to the BBC, Paypal staff told Durdle that this was not supposed to happen, that it was either the result of a bug, bad template, or human error"

 

So basically no real story there?

[spartaman64]

7 minutes ago, RollinLower said:

still, who goes in over 3K on a credit card?

i mean my dad goes over 50k near the end of the month but he pays it all off every month (its a business credit card)

[Trixanity]

PayPal are scum.

They sent debt collectors after me because some Chinese dude got access to my account (it was empty as I had used it once at best) and started doing strange currency exchanges. It ended up like negative $10. I asked them to just shut down the account but no can do. Because the balance is negative. Then roll back the transactions as I'm obviously not in China and sudden strange activity should trigger a warning. They didn't wanna do that. At least not without a ton of personal information. I refused to give away information when I wanted the account shut down or pay for false transactions. I had contacted the debt collectors and they didn't know much either. That was like 5 years ago and haven't heard from them since...

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

what's the difference between using a debit card and a credit card when consistent settlement on time is possible? o_o

there are lots of rewards and stuff when using credit cards they help you improve your credit score and in cases of fraud with a debit card you lost your money which can cause you financial problems as you wait for your bank to process your request while with a credit card you didnt lose any money. 

[Stefan Payne]

17 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

"According to the BBC, Paypal staff told Durdle that this was not supposed to happen, that it was either the result of a bug, bad template, or human error"

 

So basically no real story there?

Yes, they told that after they were bashed by the Media, not before.

And THAT is kinda the Problem...

 

Normally many companys accept it if you tell them that the person is dead...

Of course the Problem is that there is a big minus in her account, for whatever reason...

So they were trying to get the money.

 

But then the husband got media attention and they walked back and said the usual bullshit that that shouldn't have happened and that it has to be an error when there isn't necessarily evidence for that. 

 

If it was an error, why did they apologize after the media attention and not before??

[iamdarkyoshi]

Kinda like how some countries have death penalties for suicide I guess

[zoomos]

I'm guessing it was some over stressed worker with a quota to meet.

[Pixel5]

35 minutes ago, RollinLower said:

still, who goes in over 3K on a credit card?

many people do so for various reasons, some because they make bad decisions and some because they need to.

 

I travel much for work and put everything on my credit card so i dont have to pay before i actually get the money back from my company, its not uncommon for me to have a balance of 2000€ on it simply because hotels and rental cars can get expensive very quickly.

[IntMD]

32 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

what's the difference between using a debit card and a credit card when consistent settlement on time is possible? o_o

In the UK at least, you get way more protection if you use a credit card rather than a debit card to make purchases over £100.00 in value. Basically if anything goes tits up (e.g. airline you purchased goes bankrupt etc.), at all and the value of your purchase is between £100 & £30k (if I remember correctly) you get refunded by the CC company no problem, even if you only part paid for it on a credit card, you get refunded the full value. Debit cards, are much more hit and miss, while you will often get refunded, it is not guaranteed nearly as well.

[Christophe Corazza]

A little rude but to be honest it is common for creditors to go after deceased estates to settle debt. Just because you are dead doesn't mean that the other party is not owed money.

 

To be clear: the estate... not the spouse...

[YoloSwag]

It's impossible that this is a bug unless they were using AI to process mails.

 

I can see this however appearing as maybe one reading "deceased" as "diseased" and are requesting a termination of account.

But I am unsure since I can't seem to find what "condition 15-4(c)" actually is.

[mr moose]

As someone who's wife died,  I can assure you it is always difficult with large companies.  All the first contact people in most large companies are glorified phone staff.  I highly doubt this was an automation error and it is likely some new staff member who thought they were allowed to collect in this manner.

 

[asus killer]

Shoudnt the husband have assumed the debt when he sent the wifes documentation about her death? Maybe the problem started there, the debt is his now i'm pretty sure.

[Arika]

3 minutes ago, asus killer said:

Shoudnt the husband have assumed the debt when he sent the wifes documentation about her death? Maybe the problem started there, the debt is his now i'm pretty sure.

It does, but the wording of the letter was horrendous, which was the main reason for the outrage

[Lathlaer]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

It does, but the wording of the letter was horrendous, which was the main reason for the outrage

Yeah, who the hell writes a letter (or email for that matter) to the deceased person as if that person could read it?

 

"Dear Mrs. Lindsay Durdle

(...)

we have received notice that you are deceased".

 

I expect that from Monty Python gag but not from a company IRL.

[asus killer]

15 minutes ago, Lathlaer said:

Yeah, who the hell writes a letter (or email for that matter) to the deceased person as if that person could read it?

 

"Dear Mrs. Lindsay Durdle

(...)

we have received notice that you are deceased".

 

I expect that from Monty Python gag but not from a company IRL.

it should be directed to the heirs. At least in my country that's how it works, i still receive letters like that being my fathers heir. 

The worst part is that they inform the diseased that they intend to inform her executors or representatives in point 4 of the letter. Genious 

[spartaman64]

32 minutes ago, asus killer said:

Shoudnt the husband have assumed the debt when he sent the wifes documentation about her death? Maybe the problem started there, the debt is his now i'm pretty sure.

depends on the state/country and depends on the contract. in most states i dont think he assumes the debt unless he was a cosigner 

[Sauron]

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You are in breach of condition 15-4(c) of your agreement with Paypal Credit as we have received notice that you are deceased. 

Without context this would be the funniest line I've ever read...

 

I can see how this might result from a bad template. Presumably the operator initiated the contract termination procedure, clicked on the wrong termination template (breach of contract as opposed to termination request or something) and wrote "deceased" in the "reason" field.