Elon Musk tells Tesla workers to return to the office full time or resign

[ma3str0]

 

Quote

Elon Musk has told Tesla employees to come back into their respective offices at least 40 hours a week or leave the company.

In two emails obtained by Electrek, Musk said that people must show up for at least 40 hours per week in a main Tesla office. “If you don’t show up, we will assume you have resigned,” he said in one of the emails.

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/01/elon-musk-reportedly-tells-tesla-workers-to-be-in-office-full-time-or-resign.html

[MageTank]

5 minutes ago, ma3str0 said:

 

 

 

 

Sources

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/01/elon-musk-reportedly-tells-tesla-workers-to-be-in-office-full-time-or-resign.html

So what is the tech news part of this? Is it because Tesla, a tech company, is asking employees to do this? Or is the subject about the practice of working from home vs in an office? I am confused here.

[ma3str0]

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

So what is the tech news part of this? Is it because Tesla, a tech company, is asking employees to do this? Or is the subject about the practice of working from home vs in an office? I am confused here.

Tesla asking employees. sorry I wasn't clear I'm new to the forms my fault 

[Middcore]

5 minutes ago, ma3str0 said:

Tesla asking employees. sorry I wasn't clear I'm new to the forms my fault 

 

So this would not be tech news if it was, say, J. P. Morgan Chase? 

 

Anything a "tech company" does is by definition "tech news"? 

 

If Tesla changed their provider of janitorial services at their offices, would that be a tech story? 

[Sauron]

17 minutes ago, Middcore said:

If Tesla changed their provider of janitorial services at their offices, would that be a tech story? 

given the current standard for tech news, probably

[Senzelian]

22 minutes ago, Middcore said:

If Tesla changed their provider of janitorial services at their offices, would that be a tech story?

Omg did they? I need to write an article about it!

 

btt:

lol. But it might just be cheaper to get rid of people that work from home. It's obvious that their work performance is a lot lower at home than at the office. Get 50% back to the office and remove the other 50% and you might just end up with the same work force...

 

Edit: I can already see a lot of amployees joining Google or Microsoft after they left Tesla

[MageTank]

21 minutes ago, ma3str0 said:

Tesla asking employees. sorry I wasn't clear I'm new to the forms my fault 

Not trying to backseat mod you, was just genuinely curious if I was missing something from the article, lol. 

 

As for my opinion on the subject, I don't see anything wrong with an employer asking people to return to offices if they believe there is a benefit to do so. Personally, I would be driven insane if I had to work from home. I need routine to function properly. That said, I also hate the insane gas prices and for being an idiot that bought a crew cab truck right before all of this started, lol. Though, hard to work for an electric car company like Tesla and complain about gas prices. Elon might smack you with a pool noodle over that.

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to Off Topic

 

Reasons:

1. This is about HR/policy, not tech.
2. Not following the required format for Tech News subforum. Missing preface and personal input.
3. High possibility to derail into Musk-hate and/or politics.

[Derangel]

The way the emails are worded is incredibly shitty and arrogant (as expected), however I don't really see anything wrong with requiring workers to be in office. If Tesla is seeing reduced productivity with most of their office staff working from home, then it makes sense to have people work in the office. One thing I do find interesting/troubling (but, also, unsurprising) about the emails is the mention of a minimum of 40 hours and saying that it's less than they expect of faculty workers. This seems to mean that both office and factory workers are being required to work more than 40 hours a week. I hope they're all being adequately compensated for all the mandatory overtime being put in, and if they are not I hope they all sue Tesla.

 

On another note: The tone of the emails certainly say a whole hell of a lot about how Musk feels about his employees and likely how he treats them. I have to wonder what moral is like at Tesla and how that plays into the QA issues related to the vehicles. I've seen a lot worse from companies regarding employee treatment, but it really doesn't feel like something that's going to increase employee engagement or make them happy to come into work.

[ma3str0]

54 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

-> Moved to Off Topic

 

Reasons:

1. This is about HR/policy, not tech.
2. Not following the required format for Tech News subforum. Missing preface and personal input.
3. High possibility to derail into Musk-hate and/or politics.

Thanks posted into wrong place I realized it was in the wrong place also why can't the poster delete posts 

[LogicalDrm]

9 minutes ago, ma3str0 said:

why can't the poster delete posts 

To prevent trolling, harassment and other such stuff that if hard to track if content is removed without moderators seeing it. It also is very rare overall when people have good reasons and/or intentions to remove their own posts.

[Neroon]

Sounds harsh, but it does make me wonder what went on beforehand. Are people just refusing to come back in?

 

I'm not lover of Musk, but in the end if you choose to work for Tesla, and they want you to be on location, you have to be on location, unless your contract or a deal made afterwards, specifically says you can work elsewhere.

[wseaton]

For once I agree with Elon on something. He was blunt. That is all. Lots of CEOs are saying the same thing. Recruiters are calling me complaining half of the applicants to jobs *demand* work from home, and employers are increasingly not giving in. 

 

Guys, I've built and supported remote access since the late 90s and I've had this debate to death for years. Here's the brutal truth on the matter. If you can work from home, you can work from India a lot cheaper. Im already seeing the shift starting. Whatever skill you have via a VPN session is replaceable. Period. By being remote 100% you just make it easier to get a termination notice via email easier.

 

"I am just as efficient working from home". Heard it millions of times. That's what you say. How about the guy signing your check?  This 1998 all over again when web developers went to interviews wearing flip flops. 2 years later they were waiting tables. 

[Neroon]

2 hours ago, wseaton said:

For once I agree with Elon on something. He was blunt. That is all. Lots of CEOs are saying the same thing. Recruiters are calling me complaining half of the applicants to jobs *demand* work from home, and employers are increasingly not giving in. 

 

Guys, I've built and supported remote access since the late 90s and I've had this debate to death for years. Here's the brutal truth on the matter. If you can work from home, you can work from India a lot cheaper. Im already seeing the shift starting. Whatever skill you have via a VPN session is replaceable. Period. By being remote 100% you just make it easier to get a termination notice via email easier.

 

"I am just as efficient working from home". Heard it millions of times. That's what you say. How about the guy signing your check?  This 1998 all over again when web developers went to interviews wearing flip flops. 2 years later they were waiting tables. 

In all fairness though, this is about working at least 40 hours per week at a Tesla location.

I get the argument of hiring people from India, but aside from various possible issues with that, it seems Musk really does not want them to work from home at all, whereas a lot of people I know want to work like half the time from home, but apparently Musk isn't allowing that either (unless they work 80 hours a week I guess)

I'm guessing plenty of his workers either already worked partially from home, or would agree to doing like 50/50.

[Arika]

ok....so? this affects literally no one but the people that work there.

 

This isn't like Amazon's Cry Kiosks

 

but also:

Spoiler

"ThEy'Re A pRiVaTe CoMpAnY, tHeY cAn Do WhAt ThEy LiKe"

or whatever

[Monkey Dust]

7 hours ago, wseaton said:

For once I agree with Elon on something. He was blunt. That is all. Lots of CEOs are saying the same thing. Recruiters are calling me complaining half of the applicants to jobs *demand* work from home, and employers are increasingly not giving in. 

 

Guys, I've built and supported remote access since the late 90s and I've had this debate to death for years. Here's the brutal truth on the matter. If you can work from home, you can work from India a lot cheaper. Im already seeing the shift starting. Whatever skill you have via a VPN session is replaceable. Period. By being remote 100% you just make it easier to get a termination notice via email easier.

 

"I am just as efficient working from home". Heard it millions of times. That's what you say. How about the guy signing your check?  This 1998 all over again when web developers went to interviews wearing flip flops. 2 years later they were waiting tables. 

With a tight labour market, employers often don't have an option. And from the employer's perspective, a shift to hybrid working, or fully remote for many roles, allows them to reduce office space, which in most places is really expensive. Reducing other office overheads, such and energy use and cleaning, too. It allows them to recruit from a larger geographic area, only expect the employee to come in once a week, a much longer commute becomes acceptable. And for start-ups, you can avoid renting an office at all, only renting space on an ad-hoc basis for in person meetings.

 

Outsourcing to India has been possible for years. A lot of work has been offshored, and then re-shored. It's not as cheap as it once was, you lose a lot of control and oversight, and If things go wrong your options for putting it right are limited. If you want it to work well, you need to open your own office there. If it was that straight forward, it would have happened already.

 

And what’s wrong with the guy 'signing your check' working remotely? Payroll is a finance function, they work really well remotely. There are a lot of 'old school' bosses who believe that unseen employees are doing nothing and seen ones are doing something productive. At the very least, they are seriously underestimating how much time people can waste in the office. Remember the pre-internet, Pre-memes-being-called-memes, meme of 'Meetings, the practical alternative to work!'?

 

There are benefits to being in the office, but you don't need to be in 5 days a week to get them. Spending 1 or 2, possibly more, hours (of entirely unproductive time) a day commuting entirely for the sake of presenteeism is plain stupid. It causes a huge amount of pollution, as well as traffic congestion. The congestion making other sectors of the economy which rely on the road network less productive.

[Mark Kaine]

15 hours ago, MageTank said:

As for my opinion on the subject, I don't see anything wrong with an employer asking people to return to offices

its more how its worded like it was written by a small child than the actual subject... like "hey i don't care about u but if u don't want to work in office I'll just assume u resigned... " 

 

Like what? im sure there are better ways to formulate and handle that,  he sounds really pissed lol.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rauten]

9 hours ago, wseaton said:

Guys, I've built and supported remote access since the late 90s and I've had this debate to death for years. Here's the brutal truth on the matter. If you can work from home, you can work from India a lot cheaper.

As member of a company that has hired quite a bunch of Indian remote support - HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

HA!!

 

You sometimes get lucky and get a couple people that do a decent job, but most of the time their performance is... lackluster, to say the least. And in fact, some of the IT areas that hired in India have started to also increase their members in our own country because of all the issues they're having with their Indian colleagues.

 

 

Long story short, you get what you pay for. And if you pay peanuts, you hire monkeys.

 

Note: I am not saying Indians are in general bad workers, or anything along those lines. But you can't expect people to be paid wages that in many 1st world countries would be considered "below poverty line" and expect them to perform well. Odds are they don't give two shits about the job because why should they when they're being paid literal scraps.

 

15 hours ago, MageTank said:

As for my opinion on the subject, I don't see anything wrong with an employer asking people to return to offices if they believe there is a benefit to do so.

The thing is that many companies are demanding that everyone return, regardless of whether their job requires/improves by being on site or not.

99% of my job is through a web browser, Teams, Outlook and a handful of remotely controlled VMs. What the hell do I, or the company, gain by me being on site?!

 

15 hours ago, MageTank said:

Personally, I would be driven insane if I had to work from home. I need routine to function properly. 

I am the opposite. I hate being at the office. I would love 100% WFH, as that would also enable me to basically live wherever I damn well please, without being tied to a specific location because of my job.

Plus, I'm an introvert and somewhat antisocial, so... yeah. Gimme.

[Sauron]

11 hours ago, Neroon said:

Sounds harsh, but it does make me wonder what went on beforehand. Are people just refusing to come back in?

What went on beforehand is Musk's long history of anti-worker sentiment and actions.

11 hours ago, wseaton said:

For once I agree with Elon on something. He was blunt. That is all. Lots of CEOs are saying the same thing.

CEOs can say it as much as they want but the facts disagree. Allowing people to work from home is not only good for their well being but also for the company's bottom line.

11 hours ago, wseaton said:

Guys, I've built and supported remote access since the late 90s and I've had this debate to death for years. Here's the brutal truth on the matter. If you can work from home, you can work from India a lot cheaper. Im already seeing the shift starting. Whatever skill you have via a VPN session is replaceable. Period. By being remote 100% you just make it easier to get a termination notice via email easier.

Even if that were the case why should Musk care? Workers are overwhelmingly in favor of being allowed to work remotely, even if not all of them do it. What you describe is simply not happening - remote work has increased massively in the last couple of years for obvious reasons and yet there has been no huge migration of these jobs to countries with cheaper labor; what could be done there is typically already done there, be it remote work or not. You're also not accounting for the availability of infrastructure necessary for remote work.

16 hours ago, MageTank said:

Though, hard to work for an electric car company like Tesla and complain about gas prices.

It's not like gas prices aren't affecting overall energy prices, and it's not like Tesla makes affordable cars. Maybe Musk can complain about his employees not driving a Tesla when he starts paying them better.

[MageTank]

4 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

its more how its worded like it was written by a small child than the actual subject... like "hey i don't care about u but if u don't want to work in office I'll just assume u resigned... " 

 

Like what? im sure there are better ways to formulate and handle that,  he sounds really pissed lol.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not picking up on the same vibes, especially the "I don't care about you" part. From what I gathered by his words, he seems to be under the impression that people are underperforming when working from phone, as evidenced by the "phoning it in" part of his email. Whether he has any real metrics to prove this or not is uncertain, but at the end of the day, it's his decision to decide the culture of his company. The real question is whether this comes back to bite him, lol.

 

4 hours ago, Rauten said:

The thing is that many companies are demanding that everyone return, regardless of whether their job requires/improves by being on site or not.

99% of my job is through a web browser, Teams, Outlook and a handful of remotely controlled VMs. What the hell do I, or the company, gain by me being on site?!

I still don't see a problem with this. Unless WFH was promised at the original time of your employment, you are not owed WFH simply because a company adapted during a pandemic. If they want you back, and you were under the impression that you were required to be in the office when you signed on, then it's pretty cut & dry. Now you can certainly make a case to your management team that you are more productive from home and morale is improved when working from home, but you'll likely need to prove that in some manner. Unfortunately the bitter truth is that we don't get to decide these things, that's up to leadership. As I stated above, it can certainly come back to bite them, but only time can tell.

 

4 hours ago, Rauten said:

I am the opposite. I hate being at the office. I would love 100% WFH, as that would also enable me to basically live wherever I damn well please, without being tied to a specific location because of my job.

Plus, I'm an introvert and somewhat antisocial, so... yeah. Gimme.

I don't doubt there are benefits to WFH and I can understand the appeal, despite my personal aversion to it. I also notice many companies advertising WFH as a benefit, so clearly people are wanting to do so. Luckily my job is very hands on so I can't work from home, lol. During the pandemic, my team was one of the only few to remain in office so I wasn't complaining.

 

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

It's not like gas prices aren't affecting overall energy prices, and it's not like Tesla makes affordable cars. Maybe Musk can complain about his employees not driving a Tesla when he starts paying them better.

I didn't expect this joke to be taken literally. I was pointing out the humor in a Tesla employee complaining to Musk about gas prices, only for him to rage and hit someone with a pool noodle. I don't know, I found it funny, lol.

[Neroon]

14 hours ago, Rauten said:

The thing is that many companies are demanding that everyone return, regardless of whether their job requires/improves by being on site or not.

99% of my job is through a web browser, Teams, Outlook and a handful of remotely controlled VMs. What the hell do I, or the company, gain by me being on site?!

I don't disagree that it can be highly beneficial, but I also know people who do way less work, or get out of touch, maybe even have mental health issues due to not being around people.

 

Interacting with others is extremely important for a lot of peoples mental health.

Again, not speaking in absolutes, but imo the majority of people are better off working at least partially at their job instead of home.

[Rauten]

8 hours ago, Neroon said:

<snip>

Well, yes, there are people that prefer to work at the office, or some kind of mixed system.

But the thing is, the companies are forcing everyone to work 100% at the office, regardless of whether it truly affects performance or not (and it may even improve performance for some people!).

 

I'm not saying everyone should instantly switch to 100% WFH or anything like that, and obviously there are many jobs that just cannot be done remotely at all, but for those of us who do jobs that can be done remotely, having some options would be nice.

Specially for those of us who already had to do some form of remote work through the initial panic months of the pandemic and have already proven that they perform very well at home!

[Heliian]

The real reason was that he wants to cut 10% of the workforce.  He was hoping people would just quit instead of having to properly lay off the staff. 

 

Next up, another pump and dump so he can continue the shell game. 

[Neroon]

4 hours ago, Rauten said:

Well, yes, there are people that prefer to work at the office, or some kind of mixed system.

But the thing is, the companies are forcing everyone to work 100% at the office, regardless of whether it truly affects performance or not (and it may even improve performance for some people!).

 

I'm not saying everyone should instantly switch to 100% WFH or anything like that, and obviously there are many jobs that just cannot be done remotely at all, but for those of us who do jobs that can be done remotely, having some options would be nice.

Specially for those of us who already had to do some form of remote work through the initial panic months of the pandemic and have already proven that they perform very well at home!

I think you are missing the part that they aren't forced to work there, they can just take a different job.

 

Employees don't get to tell the company how they will work. You can ask for it, and either accept or leave.

 

Like I said, I'm fine with people working (partially) from home, but I'm not the CEO of Tesla, Musk is, so he gets to decide.

[steelo]

Okay...so as far as I'm aware, Elon isn't holding a gun to his employees heads forcing them to work there. It always astounds me how people complain about the (legal) rules employers set and seem determined to stir up outrage. All of this wasted energy could be used in finding an employer they REALLY want to be involved with.