Linus tech tips "pirating" OCCT - answer from the dev [Reddit thread]

[BaidDSB]

[Copied from Reddit, did NOT see a post on here] [https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/srhalz/linus_tech_tips_pirating_occt_answer_from_the_dev/]

Context :

I'm making this a dedicated post since things blew up in the post about the Newegg controversy, following this comment :

https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/srb92k/holy_sht_people/hwrbhts/

TL;DR : Linus tech tips use OCCT in their videos ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJnrMNCahxc&t=270s

) and they didn't pay for a Pro license, which raised controversy in my Discord at that time, and mixed feelings. Aeryn brings that up, and it blew up, with mentions to their "adblock = piracy" stuff among others.

Seems my answer isn't publicly readable in that thread for some reason, and as it's far in the comments section, I thought it was a good idea to put it here. I jnust hope i'm not wrong. Sorry if I am !

My original answer :

OCCT dev here. I read the whole comment thread (wow, that blew up), and felt like I had to give my personal view of this.

Let me draw the whole picture quickly : i'm the sole dev behind the project (and I always have been a solo dev), and it's currently downloaded 20k+ times per day. I made that my main job due to COVID events since early 2021, and currently, i'm not making ends meet with the project, and if things continue that way, i'll have to put OCCT as a side job again, despite its huge success.

OCCT has been around for 18 years now, and has been free for personal use only for like 10+ years, at least. It's not new it's forbidden for professional / commercial use. Don't ask me when exactly, but it's been 10 years+ at least. I think it was since OCCT 2.0.

I'll say how I felt about this, without filtering anything.

First reaction was "OMFG I finally am featured on a popular youtube channel !". I was on JayZ's channel already (he used a very old version), and now on LTT, I was thoroughly REALLY happy.

Then, after a few minutes, it starts to hit you.

Did they contact you ? No. Did they pay for a license ? No. Are they out of bounds ? yeah.

Now, should I care about that ? That's the tough part. They have tremendous power. They make a video saying OCCT sucks ? I'm dead. No matter how 18 years of being "useful" are, i'm as good as dead. They can pronounce a death sentence instantly. GamerNexus, Jayz, and a lot of others can.

I never go the fight route with anyone, but here, even less so, like a David/Goliath stuff.

They also give me visibility, and that's a good thing already

Would I have offered them a free license with an email ? HELL YES. Why wouldn't I ? I mean, it's free ads for OCCT, and it can only benefit us both. So in the end, it was just boiling down to not being "nice".

I let the matter be, as I enjoyed +15% visits for a few days following this, and tried to forget about it.

Then, developing OCCT further, I tried to reach out to youtubers, as they started making content about software. Remember the CTR/Hydra craze a few months ago ? Yeah, around that time. I was introducing my benchmarks, with a new take, and tried to get attention. I emailed the 3 top youtube channels I knew : JayZ, LTT, and GamersNexus. I got a response from GamerNexus, which led to nowhere (I was still very happy about getting answered though, thanks !), and none from the two others.

Don't get me wrong - i'm not a special snowflake. I don't deserve answers. They are so big they can view me as an insect, easily, we just don't compare. But then, you realize the sole one that replied you was the one that wasn't using your work to make some of their content. I don't know if they do use OCCT regularly, I just know they did for sure, but still, it was a bitter taste.

So here I was, having no attention from major youtube channels dedicated to hardware/review, despite them using my work, and seeing them advertise CTR like crazy while the dev of CTR was being rude to his own community.

It all boils down to this : i'm not a marketer. I'm not a youtuber ( my videos are crappy). I'm not an entertainer. i'm a dev. People are so used to have OCCT around that they forget there's someone working behind it. I mean, 85% of my traffic comes from people googling OCCT, so it is a tad known

It's a lingering feeling. I read the twitter stuff about adblocking being piracy. Well, it's even more blatant in my case. I am down 10k€ of personal funds since I switched full time on OCCT since I need more money to support my family (and we aren't living the crazy life, I have 3 kids, my wife's working part time at minimum wage, so well...).

I felt like answering to their adblock is piracy tweet. It's like a big company complaining aboput not making even more money when I can't make ends meet, and it felt... unfair. Especially since they publicly "pirated" OCCT (i'm not sure you can say that since I would have given them a free license on the spot tbh).

I did not, being afraid of the consequences. I'm better off shutting my big mouth, and trying to increase slowly my income to support my family, rather than starting fires here and there, and put my "starting" business at a jeopardy.

Here's the whole picture, the situation. I'm not letting OCCT drop, i've been working on OCCT V11 like crazy (i'm at like 60 hours+ per week on it), hoping it'll be the version that makes me not worry about money anymore, and, that's a dream, being able to afford buying test hardware rather than constantly bug people I find here and there to let me access their computer to debug.

Am I mad ? no. It's just a lingering feeling of unfairness, and while you're experiencing it, you're always wondering if it's justified or not, if you're just being a special snowflake or a princess to whom everything is due. It's a complex feeling.

The times are to entertainers, not engineers, that's a fact

As a closing note, most companies are like that. Some are really nice. I'm not afraid to cite them : Asetek, NZXT, Cooler master, Videocardz,... they're all really, really nice people. They use OCCT, support me, and I even got an AIO for free from Asetek since I made a function they had the idea of (Steady mode) (I was beyond thrilled). But lots of others aren't. I did fight for 3 months with a popular graphic card manufacturer to make them pay for a Pro license when they were using it in their after-sale services (I had proof sent by a user).

It's a pretty common thing out there. So again, this is not isolated behavior, and also, I can understand it's tough to play nice with everyone and not make a mistake. On my end, it's just often... depressing

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

seems odd that he both thanked Linus and never made an attempt to contact though official all this time until now 

 

[TetraSky]

OCCT is a paid software now?? I'll be honest, I have never once visited the main website and just keep using the Portable version(4.5.1) I got from from TechSpot long ago.
With the only mention of money being this prompt when I open the software, nothing about commercial license or what have you. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar situation for LTT.

[Levent]

1 hour ago, TetraSky said:

OCCT is a paid software now?? I'll be honest, I have never once visited the main website and just keep using an old Portable version(4.5.1) I got from from TechSpot long ago.
With the only mention of money being this prompt when I open the software, nothing about commercial license or what have you. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a similar situation for LTT.

Occt doesn't work if AD is enabled on the machine and pro license is not present. Newer versions also have a countdown before starting a test.

I remember using occt 10+ years ago and I still remember having that donation message.

 

 

As far as Linus and LTT goes,I love how the guy who claims adblocking is piracy doesn't pay for the software.

[crazzp]

2 minutes ago, Levent said:

 

Funny how guy who claims adblocking is piracy doesn't pay for the software.

lol are we at this again? For the record Linus didn't claim that he doesn't pirate stuff. He just said that it affects the creator and we need to be aware of the impact. The solution now is just to get Linus' attention so reimbursement or something can be made. I'm guessing most likely Linus wouldn't notice these kinds of minor stuff.

[Chris Pratt]

First, I'll say that I really like and appreciate OCCT and did purchase a license. Good software deserves to be paid for.

 

That said, there's a few things I want to point out. First, the blocking ads is piracy thing has gotten to the point of ridiculousness. Linus was just making a point. Content is not free. It costs YouTube to host and stream the video, let alone the costs of maintaining the platform in general. The creator, too, has time and money invested. If you don't want to pay for YouTube Premium, then you're agreeing to pay with ad views. If you do neither, you pirated the content, simple as that.

 

Now, to your point, Linus was actually not complaining about not receiving revenue from missed ad views. To the contrary, he pointed out that it's a relatively small portion of the revenue for LMG. He just wanted people to be aware what they're doing. He also passed no judgment, and clearly said that he is not above forms of piracy himself. Again, the point was to be aware, not to say it's necessarily wrong or right.

 

Now to your specific complaints. LMG is a large, multi-headed beast, as far as creators go. It is not uncommon for Linus to not be aware of everything that goes on there, and that has honestly already bit them a few times. This seems to have been Linus using OCCT, but he may be totally unaware of the licensing situation or whether or not a license was purchased. Emails often go missed, get sidetracked, etc. and Linus may be and probably is completely unaware you ever contacted them. Not everything gets instantly put on his desk.

 

Does that make the situation right? No. However, there's an implied maliciousness here that I don't think is actually present. Maybe this post will get some traction and help improve that, maybe not. However, one usage of OCCT and one missed email don't amount to massive conspiracy to steal your software or hypocrisy, especially given that Linus never actually said piracy was wrong, despite and wails and gnashing of teeth to the contrary.

[joaopt]

That's called hypocrite. That's what Linus is.

 

 

[aisle9]

Without getting into all the political behind the scenes stuff, I'll just throw this out there since we have the dev in this thread:

 

OCCT is, and has been for a long time, a better stress testing system utility than the legendary AIDA64. If I want to verify that my system works, AIDA64. If I want to crash it for funsies, RealBench. If I want to set it on fire, Prime95. If I want a good, well-rounded test of everything, it's always OCCT. The program doesn't get nearly enough love.

[joaopt]

53 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

seems odd that he both thanked Linus and never made an attempt to contact though official all this time until now 

 

he clearly explains why we didn't call him out. You should read the post on reddit quoted here first before comenting.

[Lightwreather]

29 minutes ago, Levent said:

Occt doesn't work if AD is enabled

Wait, AD? Azure Directory?

If so, then I doubt that would do anything seeing as LTT uses non-activated installs of windwos for test rigs in general.

Not saying it's the case in this instance but in general

[joaopt]

When someone at LTT download it disn't seen the big "Enterprise" tab. By that measure, MSI is a large enterprise, Gigabyte is a large enterprise.

 

Double standards. Stop making excuses. No one at LTT came out of the store with a gpu and didn't realize they had to pay for it.

 

Piracy is piracy on my book, going by Linus own words. Epic that this happened.

[NancyPelosi]

Linus's response to this is predictable. He'll acknowledge the mistake, apologize, buy a license, and say that the team will double check all licenses for on-screen products going forward.

 

This was very obviously an oversight, not malicious.

[SolarNova]

46 minutes ago, NancyPelosi said:

Linus's response to this is predictable. He'll acknowledge the mistake, apologize, buy a license, and say that the team will double check all licenses for on-screen products going forward.

 

This was very obviously an oversight, not malicious.

I'd have to agree this is most likely the case.

 

maybe .. MAYBE ..some of the behind the scenes lads use OCCT of fthe record and MAYBE it was left on the desktop by accident. Which im sure if the case will cause Linus to have more than a few choice words with the crew ..BUT ..regardless of the actual reason behind this incident im sure Linus Media Group can afford a license to clear this up.

[joaopt]

53 minutes ago, NancyPelosi said:

Linus's response to this is predictable. He'll acknowledge the mistake, apologize, buy a license, and say that the team will double check all licenses for on-screen products going forward.

 

This was very obviously an oversight, not malicious.

not licensing windows, forgeting to license software, they are all sleepwalking at LTT using his own words from the last wan show

[LAwLz]

I'm always amazed by how quickly the LTT community is to brigade/argue in bad faith against some things at the drop of a hat, but also how quickly they will justify and/or defend/argue in good faith for any bad action done by Linus/LMG.

 

 

I wish you luck OP.

I think this was an oversight on LMG's part and they thought the software was free. I think Linus and the gang still think they are some small startup that plays fast and loose with the rules and as a result don't really care about doing things like checking the license agreements for things they use. If you somehow manage to reach them they will probably pay you at least once and then pay you again if they want to keep using your product, or switch to something else.

 

Advice to Linus if you see this. When you run a large company like you do, it's a good idea to evaluate the tools you use. If a tool you use as a "purchase" tab on its website, it's usually an indication that you might need to pay to use it in some circumstances. Going to the about page or reading the EULA is probably a good idea.

As it stands right now, the only thing standing between you and being sued, is the kindness of the developer. Piracy is a serious crime.

 

 

2 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

Wait, AD? Azure Directory?

If so, then I doubt that would do anything seeing as LTT uses non-activated installs of windwos for test rigs in general.

Not saying it's the case in this instance but in general

AD = Active Directory

AAD =  Azure AD = Azure Active Directory

 

There is no "Azure Directory". But you're right, I doubt Linus has their testbench AD-joined. I kind of doubt they have their other computers AD joined either, even thought they really should.

 

 

By the way, using Windows the way Linus does is piracy as well.

You are not allowed to use the activation grace period the way Linus does. Microsoft could, if they wanted to, sue Linus for not activating Windows on his test machines.

This is what the Windows 10 license agreement says:

 

Quote

Authorized Software and Activation. You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method. When you connect to the Internet while using the software, the software will automatically contact Microsoft or its affiliate to conduct activation to associate it with a certain device. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. In either case, transmission of certain information will occur, and Internet, telephone and SMS service charges may apply. During activation (or reactivation that may be triggered by changes to your device’s components), the software may determine that the installed instance of the software is counterfeit, improperly licensed or includes unauthorized changes. If activation fails, the software will attempt to repair itself by replacing any tampered Microsoft software with genuine Microsoft software. You may also receive reminders to obtain a proper license for the software. Successful activation does not confirm that the software is genuine or properly licensed. You may not bypass or circumvent activation. To help determine if your software is genuine and whether you are properly licensed, see (aka.ms/genuine). Certain updates, support, and other services might only be offered to users of genuine Microsoft software.

 

The important part was highlighted by me.

Just because it runs doesn't mean you are allowed to run it.

 

So in one video, Linus has actually committed two acts of actual piracy.

[TetraSky]

24 minutes ago, joaopt said:

not licensing windows, forgeting to license software, they are all sleepwalking at LTT using his own words from the last wan show

To be fair for the whole licensing windows thing, they do a new build nearly every day using the same drive with the same windows copy on it to save time.

Changing the hardware deactivate the license. They just can't be arsed going through the process of re-activating it for the n-th time when it literally doesn't affect what they use the new build for (benchmarks) before disassembling it and shelving the parts for the next build.

 

But from what I know from watching their videos, all their machines that they actually use for more than a few hours have proper windows licensed I believe.

[LAwLz]

8 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

To be fair for the whole licensing windows thing, they do a new build nearly every day using the same drive with the same windows copy on it to save time.

Changing the hardware deactivate the license. They just can't be arsed going through the process of re-activating it for the n-th time when it literally doesn't affect what they use the new build for (benchmarks) before disassembling it and shelving the parts for the next build.

 

But from what I know from watching their videos, all their machines that they actually use for more than a few hours have proper windows licensed I believe.

While I understand the thought process, it is still against the terms of service. A company like LMG should take those license agreements seriously, because if Microsoft decides to go after them they will have to pay really hefty fines.

You are not allowed to take illegal shortcuts just because you feel like it makes your life easier.

 

If they want to easily activate Windows then I would suggest getting a KMS host. It would require them to also activate other machines with the KMS since it only works with at least 25 monthly devices, but at the scale LMG is they probably should do that anyway.

 

There is also a Windows 10 Enterprise Evaluation version that is actually meant for testing purposes (the grace period is not a testing period like some people believe). Not sure what Microsoft's license says about using the evaluation version for benchmark though, when the benchmarks are used in for-profit content creation like what Linus does.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise

 

 

Here is a more detailed post talking about Windows 10 licensing that I think anyone using Windows in a corporate environment should read.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/windows-10-free-dominique-côté?articleId=6628642711412973568

[Lightwreather]

Any bets on when this thread might blow up spawning endless discussion and arguments?

No offence OP, It's just the way forums tend to work (at least in my experience)

[joaopt]

30 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

or the whole licensing windows thing, they do a new build nearly every day using the same drive with the same windows copy on it to save time.

Changing the hardware deactivate the license. They just can't be arsed going through the process of re-activating it for the n-th time when it literally doesn't affect what they use the new build for (benchmarks) before disassembling it and shelving the parts for the next build.

 

But from what I know from watching their videos, all their machines that they actually use for more than a few hours have proper windows licensed I believe.

 

if you build a new PC with windows you have to get a license for windows, saying you do it to often is an absurd excuse. Like can DELL do the same? Or if they build to many PC's can they skip connecting the PSU? i mean connecting the PSU every time must be boring

[nick name]

6 minutes ago, joaopt said:

 

if you build a new PC with windows you have to get a license for windows, saying you do it to often is an absurd excuse. Like can DELL do the same? Or if they build to many PC's can they skip connecting the PSU? i mean connecting the PSU every time must be boring

This is a terrible analogy.  LTT isn't selling PCs.  They build and then tear down the majority of their PCs.  And Microsoft is absolutely capable of building DRM into their OS that would prevent any use without licensing if that was their intent.  LTT doesn't crack their OS to make it work -- they simply install it and run it as it was built by Microsoft.  

[Helpful Tech Witch]

40 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

To be fair for the whole licensing windows thing, they do a new build nearly every day using the same drive with the same windows copy on it to save time.

Changing the hardware deactivate the license. They just can't be arsed going through the process of re-activating it for the n-th time when it literally doesn't affect what they use the new build for (benchmarks) before disassembling it and shelving the parts for the next build.

 

But from what I know from watching their videos, all their machines that they actually use for more than a few hours have proper windows licensed I believe.

Yep, Linus did a video on it.

plus they have just piles of keys thay could use, but it a too much of a pain to use them

[manuelito1233]

Hi, can i know why this was only brought to light now? Like the original video was from a year ago or something yea?

[adarw]

13 minutes ago, manuelito1233 said:

Hi, can i know why this was only brought to light now? Like the original video was from a year ago or something yea?

because recently linus was saying 

 

"ad blocking is like prating" 

[manuelito1233]

21 minutes ago, adarw said:

because recently linus was saying 

 

"ad blocking is like prating" 

Didn't he change it to privateering or something? Wasn't it like also "I get the ramifications of pirating, just make sure you do too"? 

[Lurick]

 

1 hour ago, adarw said:

because recently linus was saying 

 

"ad blocking is like prating" 

And he's also explained at great length how that was a poor choice of words but people will get outraged and angry at whatever is in the moment and ignore anything else that corrects a mistake because logic dictates it?  

 

Does LTT need to be on top of their licenses? Hell yes
Did LTT screw up by not buying a license for commercial use? Yes

Is/was LTT acting with malice in this instance? No, and until people can show otherwise or someone at LTT comes out and clearly shows otherwise, don't just hop on the easy bandwagon.

 

I also have no reason to believe the developer reached out to LTT either in any meaningful manner either. I mean this is a person who, at least on reddit, said they gave PC Building Simulator a (permanent?) license to use OCCT in the game with the only payment being a single key of PC Building Simulator.....

 

Again, I will NOT argue they aren't owed at minimum a purchase of the license from LTT but just note I'm not going to throw any of my energy to the developers defense either when they seem to be so quick to "get paid in exposure" in essence. Both parties are idiots for different reasons.

 

4 hours ago, Levent said:

Occt doesn't work if AD is enabled on the machine and pro license is not present. Newer versions also have a countdown before starting a test.

I remember using occt 10+ years ago and I still remember having that donation message.

 

 

As far as Linus and LTT goes,I love how the guy who claims adblocking is piracy doesn't pay for the software.

I chatted with someone about this and they mentioned, which I missed, you can also download this software from third party sites and upon launching it on a non-AD connected machine you are prompted with ZERO license information upon or following the install. Techspot for example lets you download OCCT directly but makes no mention of these licensing terms, if someone downloaded from there they would have never even seen the pro version exists without going to the site directly. Is that an excuse? No but it IS something else to consider. Hell the software itself doesn't even mention there is a paid version or any license terms inside:

 

 

Edit: I see a prompt now for support and terms upon launching a benchmark but it's been mentioned in the original post that this wasn't always a thing so I'm curious what version was used and if I missed that please correct me