Apple is sticking taxpayers with part of the bill for rollout of tech giant’s digital ID card

[Lightwreather]

Summary

Apple is making U.S. states foot part of the bill and provide customer support for its plan to turn iPhones into digital identification cards, according to confidential documents obtained by CNBC.

 

Quotes

Quote

Apple announced in June that its users could soon store state-issued identification cards in the iPhone’s Wallet app, billing it as a more secure and convenient way for customers to provide credentials in a variety of in-person and remote settings. The feature, when combined with Apple’s biometric security measures like Face ID, could cut down on fraud.

The contracts between Cupertino, California-based Apple and states including Georgia, Arizona, Kentucky and Oklahoma provide a rare glimpse into the dealings of the powerful company. Apple is known for its obsession with secrecy. It typically forces potential partners to sign non-disclosure agreements to prevent its documents from spilling into public view.

The 7-page memorandum of agreement, obtained through public record requests from CNBC and other sources, mostly portrays Apple as having a high degree of control over the government agencies responsible for issuing identification cards.

Georgia and Arizona will be the first states to offer driver licenses on the Wallet app, but have yet to launch their programs. While the contracts obtained were virtually identical across states, CNBC did not review agreements for Connecticut, Iowa, Maryland and Utah, the four other states that have signed up for Apple’s digital ID program.

Apple has “sole discretion” for key aspects of the program, including what types of devices will be compatible with the digital IDs, how states are required to report on the performance of the effort, and when the program is launched, according to the documents. Apple even gets to review and approve the marketing that states are required to do.

 

My thoughts

So, that happened. I'm not a citizen of the US nor have I had much of an interest in how it functions, but something tells me that having a Large company essentially dictate stuff to a state's IT department while not holding any resposibility or what happens is a bit.... idk... wrong? Couldn't the states have negotiated a contract that was a bit more equal, seeinga s they're states and apple needs them for this feature to work? Well, that's all I have for this other than we'll have to see how this plays out. Can't wait to see a lot more cases of cyber hacks, wait, that came out wrong.

 

Sources

CNBC

[SorryBella]

8 minutes ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

Apple is making U.S. states foot part of the bill and provide customer support for its plan to turn iPhones into digital identification cards

How to double down in your security whammy. I genuinely hope we wont see Equifax disaster but with Tim Cook's face.

[Spindel]

Wait what?!

 

Doesn’t USA have a electronical ID system allready?

 

 

[emosun]

22 minutes ago, Spindel said:

Doesn’t USA have a electronical ID system allready?

our infrastructure is made up of 1960's rusting bridges and a patchwork network of isp providers held together with bubblegum and twine . cars dont even have to pass inspections here , so yeah it makes sense nothing here is modern.

[LurkAndLoiter]

1 hour ago, Spindel said:

Wait what?!

 

Doesn’t USA have a electronical ID system allready?

 

 

Nope there have been attempts in Congress to implement one over the last few decades. opposition cries privacy concerns with limited evidence showing any tangible benefit for anyone other than police states. See eff mandatory national IDs and biometric data for more opposition view. Note the privacy advocates and the ACLU stand together on this issue so it is unlikely to ever be approved in the USA.

[LurkAndLoiter]

1 hour ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

The feature, when combined with Apple’s biometric security measures like Face ID, could cut down on fraud.

Does this mean everyone needs to have apple wallet now? If not I don't see how this adds any security you've just stored the data in one more place to be stolen. And you're still accepting other forms of the same Id so I don't get it other than the end user convenience of having everything readily available on your person.

[Spindel]

So some explanation to my previous reaction. 
 

I’m swedish, we have a kind of unique relation to ID that makes the rest of the world scream authoritarian. But to be frank it works for us and is really convinient. 
 

The biggest e-ID is called BankID and is run by a company co-owned by the biggest banks here. I think something like 95% of all phones have it installed. 
 

A system like this being owned by Banks or Apple is a toss up to me. 

[DrMacintosh]

Really a national online ID service should be created that runs on iOS and Android that allows citizens to add their State IDs or DLs to their phone. Until such a service exists, individual states are obviously the only ones with the ability to access ID records and make them available to Apple. 

[Video Beagle]

2 hours ago, LurkAndLoiter said:

so I don't get it other than the end user convenience of having everything readily available on your person.

No. You get it.

This is literally it. People (users) would like the convience of having the license in their phone. One less thing to carry. (note: frequent LTT sponser Ridge Wallet and it's many competitors). If you don't carry cash, a wallet mainly just has cards in it, and if your cards are already on the phone, that leaves your ID...

 

This is not something Apple can offer without states allowing it.  (obviously, you can have a copy of your licesne..but for it to useable in a legal sense, the state has to sanction it).

 

Digging out from the tinted language used, Apple is setting policy on what it can and can not do, and likely so that what works for one state works for any of them. (Because of the nature of the US, each state has it's own kind of license and info. There's now "REAL ID" which is minimum set of standards required by the federal government, but it only goes so far to universalizing the info).

 

The US won't have a national id until the political power of certain groups deminish as they believe..or convinced their donor base to believe, that it's the equivelent of the beast mark from the Bible. So, yeah.

[Video Beagle]

47 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

So Apple wants control over a function that is fulfilled by the government.

2 hours ago, LurkAndLoiter said:

Does this mean everyone needs to have apple wallet now?

 

This isn't Apple taking over something. This is Apple offering something to their customers that they may want to use. If you use Android or your an iPhone user that likes having the plastic ID...it has no effect on you.

[mr moose]

31 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

 

This isn't Apple taking over something. This is Apple offering something to their customers that they may want to use. If you use Android or your an iPhone user that likes having the plastic ID...it has no effect on you.

If apple is offering it then apple can pay for it, why should tax payers cough up for something that only half the population can use?  Hell, it's the chief argument against a public health system, not sure why it would be acceptable for this.

[Video Beagle]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If apple is offering it then apple can pay for it, why should tax payers cough up for something that only half the population can use?  Hell, it's the chief argument against a public health system, not sure why it would be acceptable for this.

Without having done any research into it, and just having the basic understanding of how a lot of this kind of stuff works on the government side, and just bs browsing at 3:30am, I'll bet there are laws that require the spending.

 

EDIT: And with this post, I hit a new Forum level. I'd like to spend my XP on increasing my sarcasm ability please.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

Without having done any research into it, and just having the basic understanding of how a lot of this kind of stuff works on the government side, and just bs browsing at 3:30am, I'll bet there are laws that require the spending.

 

EDIT: And with this post, I hit a new Forum level. I'd like to spend my XP on increasing my sarcasm ability please.

If so then I would expect public money to be spent on a system that can be implemented/fulfilled by either an apple or a google wallet. 

[Paul Thexton]

6 hours ago, emosun said:

our infrastructure is made up of 1960's rusting bridges and a patchwork network of isp providers held together with bubblegum and twine . cars dont even have to pass inspections here , so yeah it makes sense nothing here is modern.

Until you mentioned cars not having to pass inspection I genuinely thought you were describing the U.K.

[TheEggComputer]

7 hours ago, J-from-Nucleon said:

Summary

Apple is making U.S. states foot part of the bill and provide customer support for its plan to turn iPhones into digital identification cards, according to confidential documents obtained by CNBC.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

So, that happened. I'm not a citizen of the US nor have I had much of an interest in how it functions, but something tells me that having a Large company essentially dictate stuff to a state's IT department while not holding any resposibility or what happens is a bit.... idk... wrong? Couldn't the states have negotiated a contract that was a bit more equal, seeinga s they're states and apple needs them for this feature to work? Well, that's all I have for this other than we'll have to see how this plays out. Can't wait to see a lot more cases of cyber hacks, wait, that came out wrong.

 

Sources

CNBC

Apple should totally pay for it not the taxpayer. If they are making it where users can put their license into Apple Wallet when it is purely for convenience for some people, then why should states pay for something that Apple (most likely) already developed internally? I mean people can currently put their license behind their phone case in one of those sticker wallets or behind their case etc. 

[WolframaticAlpha]

18 minutes ago, danthe_only_man said:

Apple should totally pay for it not the taxpayer. If they are making it where users can put their license into Apple Wallet when it is purely for convenience for some people, then why should states pay for something that Apple (most likely) already developed internally? I mean people can currently put their license behind their phone case in one of those sticker wallets or behind their case etc. 

If it is not an open system, then the taxpayer shouldn't pay for it.

[Fasterthannothing]

Yeah that's a no from me! Sure just go ahead and put your personal identification online one more place and see how that goes. Not to mention why are my taxes going to pay for Apple's engineering for something that isn't necessary? 

[Mihle]

7 hours ago, Spindel said:

So some explanation to my previous reaction. 
 

I’m swedish, we have a kind of unique relation to ID that makes the rest of the world scream authoritarian. But to be frank it works for us and is really convinient. 
 

The biggest e-ID is called BankID and is run by a company co-owned by the biggest banks here. I think something like 95% of all phones have it installed. 
 

A system like this being owned by Banks or Apple is a toss up to me. 

We use BankID in Norway too

I think it's great.

I don't use the app, I have the code thing via the SIM card.

 

I would rather it being basically all banks together than just Apple alone, if it was Apple together with a few other bit companies then maybe that would be fine.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, Spindel said:

I’m swedish, we have a kind of unique relation to ID that makes the rest of the world scream authoritarian. But to be frank it works for us and is really convinient. 

I think the system BankID has is great (saying this as a Swedish person) too.

I haven't read this proposal that thoroughly yet but it seems like this is different on some key aspects.

1) BankID is owned and operated by 7 different major banks, rather than a single entity. This makes it far more resilient to corruption (as in, Apple deciding to hijack the system for personal gains).

2) This proposed system from Apple is not cross-platform, while BankID is.

3) BankID was not developed or funded by the government, which it seems like Apple is asking for. 

 

 

In any case, from what I've seen as an ignorant outsider, the US ID system is fucked beyond belief, and even if this proposed system is flawed, I wouldn't be surprised if it's better than what you currently have. Although, I strongly believe that if you are going to make a big change like this then it should be done the right way to begin with.

I really don't like that these kinds of things are apparently being done in private. I strongly believe that anything involving the government should be done in the open, and if some development is being done with tax-payer money then it should also be open sourced. 

[Donut417]

9 hours ago, Spindel said:

Wait what?!

 

Doesn’t USA have a electronical ID system allready?

 

 

Have you seen the age of people in our government? Shit I’m sure half of them still think the Soviet Union exists. Besides that a certain political party is dead set against the whole thing. 

[BuckGup]

One step closer to the metaverse, virtual identification 

[Buck Russell]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

If apple is offering it then apple can pay for it, why should tax payers cough up for something that only half the population can use?  Hell, it's the chief argument against a public health system, not sure why it would be acceptable for this.

that's my issue as well. if it's an apple service, apple should pay for it.

[CarlBar]

4 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

Until you mentioned cars not having to pass inspection I genuinely thought you were describing the U.K.

 

When you read up on the US you'll realise there's a lot of differences. From the outside the US might look dysfunctional at time, but it's this big powerhouse occupying nation state most of the north american continent. In practise it's 52 nations each with the own legal codes that differ form each other in a weird alliance that has a federal government as an extra appendege. In general it's very hard and very rare, (compared to UK/Europe), for national level anything to happen. If some law needs to be introduced to cover somthing not allready covered it''s a local state responsibility. Meaning not all states even have laws covering the same thing, and where they do they vary wildly in what they say, (as a reference comprehensive European seat-belt laws exist in only around half of US states, the others all allow some degree of people being unbelted in the vehicle, and one state still has no laws requiring seat-belts to be worn by anyone at any time).

 

And this is actually exactly why the situation of creating anything in the OP is happening. The US federal government has a snowballs chance in hell of creating somthing like this, the individual states would fight them to hell and back on it But Apple isn't the federal government, if it comes in and tells them what to do under the guise of helping them and making it's own life easier it gets a lot more trust and can thus create a single standard to develop for which makes life easier for it and just happens to help the states in question into the bargain.

[RejZoR]

It's funny everyone presents it as "Apple wants taxpayers money!!!!!!11111". Do people think companies that make physical ID's are charities? They get tax payer money too for design and production of gov issued ID's. But evil Apple, how dare they expect monetary compensation for work! And from your taxes! Outrageous!

[Salv8 (sam)]

14 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

It's funny everyone presents it as "Apple wants taxpayers money!!!!!!11111". Do people think companies that make physical ID's are charities? They get tax payer money too for design and production of gov issued ID's. But evil Apple, how dare they expect monetary compensation for work! And from your taxes! Outrageous!

i agree, but only from people who CAN use the system, people on android and other mobile devices shouldn't.

if you spent all of your life getting away from apple devices and services only to have to pay them via taxes for a service you won't ever use it would probably piss you off.

plus what about android, it's hard enough getting something standardized on it this would just be hell, and if someone decides that they don't want to use google services (such as the /e/ project or whatever it's called cause it went though a name change recently) what happens to them?

 

while people do need to be payed, in this situation, it would of been better if the U.S payed apple themselves instead of dumping it on their taxpayers.