Home Depot is now selling power tools that require activation at checkout for them to work

[DeScruff]

4 hours ago, Moonzy said:

so, how hard can it be to bypass it with a soldering iron?

 

power tools cant be too complicated right?

Depends. I wouldn't put it past companies to design a system where the best way to bypass a lockout system is to mess with the most hazardous part of the machine, that you really shouldn't be messing with unless you know what you are doing.
Like lets say this was directly attached to a lithium battery... or inside the PSU of the device, wouldn't be surprised to read a story about someone burning their house down attempting to install a bypass.
- Then queue all the comment section "ThE gUy oBvIoUslY sToLe iT!", "ThIs iS pErFeCtLy FiNe".

[WereCat]

Now let's scalp power tools due to a micro-chip shortage

[ouroesa]

5 hours ago, HarryNyquist said:

Notice they don't say the brand(s) that agreed to do this.

 

That's very important.

Read the quote in the article.

[Vanderburg]

I'm cool with this.

[Blademaster91]

So what happens if the tool gets dropped or the chip randomly dies? The store can say you stole it, or you'll have to buy another tool.

Also what cost does it add to the tool? The manufacturer sure isn't going to add it for free. Adding more complexity just seems like a bad idea.

[vetali]

I am all for it, I work with all Milwaukee brushless stuff and haven't had any issues with the tools dying because of chip failure. Only had a trigger fail on an impact that was covered under warranty. I am tired of going through FB marketplace looking for tools and it being filled with obviously stolen brand new power tools. Plus who knows, maybe it inadvertently will help with the catalytic converter theft problem too.

[RGProductions]

8 hours ago, Moonzy said:

so, how hard can it be to bypass it with a soldering iron?

 

power tools cant be too complicated right?

most of mine are literally just a switch connecting a battery to a motor. Some of the cool ones have some circuitry to communicate with the battery though

[Zodiark1593]

6 hours ago, RejZoR said:

ALL li-ion powered devices have some sort of circuitry inside because it's needed for voltage control and charging. Either in battery pack or the device itself. Or both.

Additionally, the speed controller for DC Brushless Motors aren’t exactly simple on-off switches either. A fair bit of circuitry goes into those. 

[Vanderburg]

For people confused, it's probably pretty trivial to have a one-time activation that doesn't rely on a persistent forever "I'm good, you're allowed to use me" device. It's mostly just an added cost of implementing the system, but it's not that difficult.

[Arika]

how does the activation work? what if the cashier forgets to activate it, is there something on the box that has the identifier of the product inside to deactivate, and is this also recorded on the receipt?

 

let's say a clever person goes and buys a power tool, gets it activated, then that night they go and steal the same product from the same store. Go back in the next day with the stolen product and their receipt for the purchased one and say that the activation didn't work how do they prove the the receipt was for a different one?

[dizmo]

I don't see a massive problem in this. It won't stop all thieves, as sure, the ones that are in large rings will probably find a way around it, but it's definitely going to help deter some smaller level ones, as well as those buying from them.

 

8 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

I wonder how long a potentially sensitive chip will last in a 3/4 impact..

They already have chips in some of the largest brands on the market. Don't think that's an issue at all.

8 hours ago, Fasauceome said:

Foot in the door for tools as a subscription, requiring authentication over and over for a fee.

 

Easily hackable, widely available technology that a theft ring will be trying their hardest to circumvent. And will most likely succeed.

 

Added cost due to additional electronics.

 

Awesome. Just awesome.

Eh, maybe, but depending on price that might not even be that bad. Especially if it covers wear and tear. A feature like this would also be a superb addition to HomeDepot (and any other company's) rental department. It won't add that much cost, as BT chips aren't that expensive.

8 hours ago, Moonzy said:

so, how hard can it be to bypass it with a soldering iron?

 

power tools cant be too complicated right?

Not sure how far thieves are going to go, opening things up and resoldering them is probably a bit much and they'd rather go for quicker flips.

8 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I’m genuinely curious how things like this happen. Because anyone with more than 4 brain cells knows this won’t do anything and just adds extra cost and complexity for no reason. Is it a liability thing? Like a higher up said we need to do something so they just do this to satisfy that or what?

It helps stop basic thieves. Not sure why you think it won't work?

It could also be a liability thing, much like having a car alarm lowers car insurance premiums.

7 hours ago, LauriHimself said:

true, but vibration can cause solder to break, and dust is never a good thing in electronics. can't count how many car keys and phones my dusty job cost me, despite paying attention not to get them too dusty while still needing them at a worksite

There's already tons of electronics in drills. Hasn't been a problem yet. Many also already have BT incorporated. Car keys and phones aren't built to the same standard, so I'm not sure why you'd really use that as a comparison.

6 hours ago, HarryNyquist said:

Notice they don't say the brand(s) that agreed to do this.

 

That's very important.

Unless all brands agreed to it, it's a strategic move not to tell thieves which brands contain it and which don't.

5 hours ago, scottyseng said:

I'm curious if items ordered online will have to be activated. As someone in a construction family, I'll be keeping an eye on this. 

Probably, but that can be done at the time of shipment. Tools that aren't sold at HomeDepot wouldn't be affected, so they'd likely have a way to activate them prior to shipment. Pretty simple.

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

So what happens if the tool gets dropped or the chip randomly dies? The store can say you stole it, or you'll have to buy another tool.

Also what cost does it add to the tool? The manufacturer sure isn't going to add it for free. Adding more complexity just seems like a bad idea.

Very unlikely to happen, and you'd still have a receipt. No receipt? Wouldn't be able to warranty the tool anyway.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

33 minutes ago, Arika S said:

let's say a clever person goes and buys a power tool, gets it activated, then that night they go and steal the same product from the same store. Go back in the next day with the stolen product and their receipt for the purchased one and say that the activation didn't work how do they prove the the receipt was for a different one?

That's a really elaborate scenario... If anything... it would limit losses to one unit I suppose. Forgot to activate once, they might overlook it. Twice? Now something is up. I don't really get why people are trying to poke holes into this. It's just like bike locks, it's not going to prevent theft 100%. But it will make Home Depot's stock more "theft resistant" as it'll harder to steal than their competitors. Like locking up your bike, it's not to make your bike unstealable, but less enticing to steal compared to the bike next to it. 

[FrodoX570]

Buys screwdriver, yeah you need to also purchase a SIM card with 10 bucks credit, credit is deducted based on how many times you turn the screwdriver.

 

 

 

[NumLock21]

Will these stupid chips be like those gift cards, where you've paid and activate at the counter by the cashier, but when you get home your gift card (tool) still doesn't work, saying it's not activated.

 

[atxcyclist]

I'll just stick with the cheap ones I've bought at Harbor Freight, they work for decades with no activation necessary.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Very unlikely to happen, and you'd still have a receipt. No receipt? Wouldn't be able to warranty the tool anyway.

So you'd still have to drive back to the store, or send it back for a refund if the activation doesn't work while purchasing the tool, and this could lead to tools as a service. You could get a drill and battery cheap, which i'm sure people would buy because power tool batteries are more expensive than the tool, but miss a month on the subscription and the tool gets deactivated unless you go back to the store to have it activated again.

[dizmo]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

So you'd still have to drive back to the store, or send it back for a refund if the activation doesn't work while purchasing the tool, and this could lead to tools as a service. You could get a drill and battery cheap, which i'm sure people would buy because power tool batteries are more expensive than the tool, but miss a month on the subscription and the tool gets bricked.

As you would with any tool that you drop and break. Not sure where you're trying to go with that.

There's tons of chips in drills. It's not like having ONE more chip is going to suddenly drastically increase the failure rate.

[FrodoX570]

20 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

So you'd still have to drive back to the store, or send it back for a refund if the activation doesn't work while purchasing the tool, and this could lead to tools as a service. You could get a drill and battery cheap, which i'm sure people would buy because power tool batteries are more expensive than the tool, but miss a month on the subscription and the tool gets deactivated unless you go back to the store to have it activated again.

Easier to just blow a hole in the wall with a stick of dynamite, back to the old ways.

[SeriousDad69]

Just let security guards beat shoplifters' asses lmao

[Kisai]

12 hours ago, Furiku said:

 

 

My thoughts

 

I actually support this idea completely as long as the activation is permanent, which it seems to be as it's one-time thing done at checkout with bluetooth.. 
But as techie I also understand:  Countdown to this being hacked in 3... 2... 

In worst case it's simply a matter of using  a Bluetooth sniffer, buying one power tool and recording deactivation and pray they implemented it poorly. 

 

 

I don't see this working well. People already know you can defeat those anti-theft boxes with a high power magnet, they know you can take those clothing-pin+dyepack locks with a fork, and this will just be one of those things where people who steal the tools will steal the deactivation equipment one time and the entire thing will be pointless after that.

 

It has to be smarter than that. Like actually registering the owner's name and purchase date (warranty start, purchase location) into the SOC in the tool. 

 

There are things out there that already behave this way, and the unfortunate problem is that it quickly goes from "security" to "privacy" and "broken by design". At least with the gift cards, you can always go back to the store you purchased it from and show your receipt and have them try and activate it again. Imagine buying a tool at the store, having someone behind you shoplift the same tool, and then you go outside swap the boxes and you go back in and say it doesn't work, and they activate the second one.

 

This is literately something people do when they break something soon after they bought it, they buy a second one and then return the first one, and the customer service people don't even check the contents of the box.

 

It also has complications for item returns, since people (especially at costco and walmart) will return things after they are done with them, and the stores have no-questions-asked type of return policies. If it's been activated, they can't put it back on the shelf, so now the item goes into the trash compactor, and the store takes a loss, same as if it had been stolen anyway.

 

I think maybe the idea isn't bad, but there has to be something beyond an activation key being the reason for the bluetooth chips, like battery life monitoring, and "find my powertool" features.

[wanderingfool2]

  There are 2 major issues I have with this.  It adds to another point of single point of failure, and the second being that it adds costs to the consumer.

 

11 hours ago, SlidewaysZ said:

I am not usually for adding electronics to things that don't need it. However this isn't something that is going to be controlled by some micro transactions that they will just disable when your monthly subscription runs out. This is a one time activation that's no different than security tags on clothes or activating a gift card. Theft is on the rise accross the country especially in major cities so this is very much needed.

I am all for this idea, as along as there isn't additional cost to manufacture or SPOF.  The thing about clothing stores or gift cards, is you have very minimal cost (clothing security tags get recycled onto other clothing, and gift cards are super cheap).  The biggest thing is it needs to be a permanent activation (and not have any chance of being a cause of failure of a tool).

 

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

Eh, maybe, but depending on price that might not even be that bad. Especially if it covers wear and tear. A feature like this would also be a superb addition to HomeDepot (and any other company's) rental department. It won't add that much cost, as BT chips aren't that expensive.

BT chips may not be expensive, but it is all about the inevitable creep of proprietary "technology" getting put into things that don't need it (so it can be charged at a higher premium).  Also, I am against having things that will clearly add another SPOF to the mix.

[MageTank]

I really like this idea a lot. Several years ago, back when I worked a Lowes, we had a ton of power tool theft because they were easy for crackheads to run in, grab, and resell for a quick buck as anyone would buy a brand new angle grinder for $40, especially a quality brand. Even if people figure out a way to disable this anti-theft measure, you'd likely have to open up the packaging to do so, and people are less likely to buy unsealed products from crackheads. If they do, the value drops dramatically and that may disincentivize the thief if they are making less for their risky endeavors.

 

Can't speak for other places, but for our Lowes in particular, we'd let people steal tools until it hit a certain dollar amount to be considered felony theft, then loss prevention would get involved with police and they'd go away for a long, long time. Not exactly the ideal circumstance to handle this for a store, and I can guarantee you nobody wants a felony on their record. If this preventative measure is harmless to the legitimate paying end-user, I am all for it.

 

6 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

  There are 2 major issues I have with this.  It adds to another point of single point of failure, and the second being that it adds costs to the consumer.

 

I am all for this idea, as along as there isn't additional cost to manufacture or SPOF.  The thing about clothing stores or gift cards, is you have very minimal cost (clothing security tags get recycled onto other clothing, and gift cards are super cheap).  The biggest thing is it needs to be a permanent activation (and not have any chance of being a cause of failure of a tool).

 

BT chips may not be expensive, but it is all about the inevitable creep of proprietary "technology" getting put into things that don't need it (so it can be charged at a higher premium).  Also, I am against having things that will clearly add another SPOF to the mix.

More likely than not, the tool manufacturers will offer rebates to the retailers for the stock they are currently carrying and offer them the new line of tools at the original price without marking them up. Remember, shrink from theft often gets written off as a loss and claimed as insurance. The insurance companies don't want to fit the bill for it, and the manufacturers don't want their products flooding the used market undercutting the sale of new product (especially in retailers that use a consignment business model at some of the higher end tool stores).

 

I remember Troy Bilt releasing new tractors and letting us mark last years model down several hundred dollars just to get them to sell out and make space for the new product. The price of the new tractors? The same price as last years model before they marked them down, except with new features.

 

Even if tool manufacturers do charge more for the tools, I'd have to imagine retailers would eat that difference in cost to avoid having to prosecute for theft, especially if they are like my local Lowes and wait for it to become a felony offense as that could be a lot of loss in product before it becomes feasible and at that point, you would have saved more time and money simply taking the small loss in margin. Either way, I am all for this theft prevention idea if it doesn't disable the product remotely on legitimate users after they lawfully pay, or require some kind of re-activation over a network at periodic times. That would be silly.

[Heliian]

Milwaukee already has BT built into some of their products so it wouldn't add too much cost.  Might actually help lower prices if it deters theft.

 

Most higher end tools are serialized anyways, registering and tracking them wouldn't be difficult. 

 

In my professional opinion, people won't stop buying Milwaukee until they lower their quality.  They're just too good and for the average consumer they won't even notice.

 

 

[ravenshrike]

23 hours ago, scottyseng said:

I'm curious if items ordered online will have to be activated. As someone in a construction family, I'll be keeping an eye on this. 

My bet is a special model for HD

[AnonymousGuy]

Jesus Christ on a cracker...just put the damn tools behind the customer service desk if your HD is in a hood location that has a ton of theft.  The same shit we see with TVs and medicines and shit where you have to take a card to the counter and they give you the product.

 

This is a classic example of overthinking the problem.