Apple Is Letting Over 150 Countries Censor LGBTQ+ Content In The App Store

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, SorryClaire said:

Not our fault that asexuality and intersex picked up steam.

 

Honestly self hosting open source communication apps should be more and more popular and should be an option. Its basically the same ease of making a discord server and all you need is a hunk of PC that can run it.

Yes but didn't they use to just do LGBT+ to address the other ones? Honestly I think they should just have a term that refers to anything other than straight as that would make things easier and nobody would be excluded because they didn't have a letter in the acronym. 

[StDragon]

3 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

If Apple wants to deal business with these countries and ban LGBTQ+ content, that's their decision. But don't go around and pretend to be a "hip and modern" company "celebrating" pride month by selling rainbow watch bands. If you actually truly supported pride month, you would wise up and leave these countries.

That whole movement (LGBTQ+whatever) specifically is of no concern to me, but for me the real issue is that mega corporations have always been hypocritical. So in that regard, that whole community has my feels; it's sad frankly.

 

As for Tim Cook, you'd think after his own ox being gored he would take this matter personally. Nope. His lips are  for the all mighty 

[Lightwreather]

4 hours ago, StDragon said:

lol, this thread will be locked and banned. It's "political".

Very very likely fir this to happen

[Taf the Ghost]

6 hours ago, comander said:

THIS IS TERRIBLE, THEY SHOULD FIRE THEIR CEO OVER THIS, HE IS CLEARLY HOMOPHOBIC!!!!!!

 

------

On a more serious note, different societies have different cultures. It is not the responsibility of the richest ~5% of Americans to force their ideals on the rest of the world. 

 

I had a very good laugh at this. Thank you.

[poochyena]

6 hours ago, Centurius said:

LGBT is not all-encompassing for the community.

Can you name one app that was banned due to intersex or asexual content? This is clearly about lgbt specifically.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 hours ago, StDragon said:

As for Tim Cook, you'd think after his own ox being gored he would take this matter personally. Nope. His lips are  for the all mighty 

Life is really different when you're "in the Club" and have calls you have to take. It changes the way someone interacts with everything. While Tim has definitely handled it pretty well, it doesn't mean he sees eye to eye with the any other groups in the world, minus the very small niche he's found himself in.

[RedRound2]

Apple is a buisness. They're not international human rights and non-profit organisation, my god. I don't understand why people on this forum seem to be incapable of thinking more critically and rather just write comments behind the safety behind anonymity and privledge

 

They can't just pull out of countries who's policies they don't agree with. And this extends to literally everything else. China is ruled by corrupt communist party. I'm sure most mega corps like Apple don't really like that but they have to suck it and deal with it. I'm sure most companies don't like captial punishments, but what can you as an induvidual or a foreign company do about it.

 

Apple explicitly supports the LGBTQ community. Heck, Tim Cook, the one at the helm is part of the community. They are helpless if countries want to ban stuff.

 

If you start exiting out of countries who's policies you don't agree with, congratulations on being the dumbest CEO with an IQ of 20 who drived a trillion dollar country into the ground.

 

On the other hand, people who are being actively opressed by the ruling party might have some sense of semblence when the company they buy their products internationally fight for their rights - rather than doing the opposite

 

Sometime I feel this forum is only participated by a bunch of 13 years olds

[RejZoR]

That's the unfortunate outcome when you're a for profit company. Even if you have principals, shareholders will demand otherwise and they'll demand profit. It's why Apple accepted Prism, has accepted China's demand for own servers and handing over of decryption keys and Saudi hatred towards LGBT.

[xtroria]

A for-profit company makes a move that maximizes its profit

 

AND THE CROWD GOES WILD

 

enter surprise pikachu face here

[NeuesTestament]

5 hours ago, NotTheFirstDaniel said:

If Apple wants to deal business with these countries and ban LGBTQ+ content, that's their decision. But don't go around and pretend to be a "hip and modern" company "celebrating" pride month by selling rainbow watch bands. If you actually truly supported pride month, you would wise up and leave these countries.

 

And this is for all companies. not just Apple. Every year, more and more companies use pride as a way to ship more product, and then use those proceeds to directly/indirectly harm the LGBT community by funding/promoting organizations that go against the community. It's why I find pride so BS nowadays. It's just a way for companies to make a quick buck while not doing anything meaningful for the people the product is commemorating. And no, 5-10% of proceeds going to "organizations" does nothing.

I actually disagree with that. The "supporting" stuff is just marketing to sell more products. That's what companies do. While you can obvioulsy mock them for it, I don't think it is an unreasonable thing to do for a company.

[Obioban]

Alternate headline: “Apple complied with local laws, as they are required to do in order to operate”

[Fasterthannothing]

13 hours ago, CerealExperimentsLain said:

Back In My Day™ we had an Internet where any nerd could spin up a server on an old PII in their closet and post what ever they wanted on the internet.  You could host your own game servers, host your own IRC servers to chat, host your own webservers for your badly photoshopped Star Trek/X-Men fanfic series. Now we're here in the year 2021 where the internet is increasingly dominated by a small number of mega sized corporations and they control so much that the ultimately control much of the very ecosystems we use and what we can and can't do on a range of devices.  We're at the point that they can nearly erase access to anything should a nation they want to make money off of not like it.  Sure for a minority of hardcore users their are work arounds, but these workarounds are increasingly inaccessible to people on what are ubiquitous every day computing devices.

The internet hasn't changed the people using it have. Back then most people using the internet were technology focused individuals not your every day average Joe who can't remember his email password every week. There are tons of ways to spin up your own anything at your house, social media (mastodon), your own cloud yep, your own website yep, your own media server yep. However completely decoupling yourself from big tech is impossible you need your own DNS, networking back haul lines, switches, servers, routers etc. 

[StDragon]

1 hour ago, Obioban said:

Alternate headline: “Apple complied with local laws, as they are required to do in order to operate”

"IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black (a NY Times best seller) .

 

From from that aspect, IBM did nothing wrong.

 

Don't conflate what is legal as being ethical. Just sayin.

[Commodus]

I don't know what people expect Apple to do... withdraw from 150 countries, tank its business and likely not make a single dent in those nations' anti-LGBTQ policies?

 

Besides, it's not as if Amazon, Google, Microsoft and other companies don't actively tout LGBTQ support.  If critics were  internally consistent, they'd effectively be arguing for the exit of all major tech companies from most countries... which isn't going to happen, and would only hurt the very people it would be meant to protect.

 

Like it or not, the solution is a fundamental cultural shift in these countries, and that could take a very long time.

[Distinctly Average]

13 hours ago, Tech87 said:

This is nothing new.

Specific countries have been censoring specific internet content from their citizens for many years now.

I totally agree. For instance, it is illegal to sell a porn mag to someone under 18 here in the UK, why should online porn be any different? Gone are the days when any teenager could find a copy of razzle in the bushes. So how do governments police their local laws? It is my understanding that the app not listed in the UK contravene local laws, apps targeted at under 18s with specific content, or that have chat available in certain ways. The idea of full freedom of information may sound nice in theory, but do we want suicide websites and apps, pedophile group contact/sharing apps, bomb making instructions etc? No. And because we may bot agree with a law in another country does not mean we should flout it. It has to be up to governments to apply pressure on human rights like these, not tech companies. Instead of having a pop at Apple or whoever, we should all be shouting at our own governments to actually do something about repression in other countries or even our own. 

[Brooksie359]

26 minutes ago, StDragon said:

"IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black (a NY Times best seller) .

 

From from that aspect, IBM did nothing wrong.

 

Don't conflate what is legal as being ethical. Just sayin.

Lol they are selling iphones and simply blocked some apps. Surely we don't have to go around doing holocaust comparisons. They are simply a company selling a product and complying with local laws to block some apps. I mean what is the alternative? They don't sell in that country? Does anyone honestly believe that would make any difference? The only difference it would make is that people would have to settle for Android phones in that country. 

[Centurius]

7 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Lol they are selling iphones and simply blocked some apps. Surely we don't have to go around doing holocaust comparisons. They are simply a company selling a product and complying with local laws to block some apps. I mean what is the alternative? They don't sell in that country? Does anyone honestly believe that would make any difference? The only difference it would make is that people would have to settle for Android phones in that country. 

IBM didn't provide the Zyklon B for the gaschambers either. They simply sold Nazi Germany something as innocent as punch cards. Turned out those punch cards could be used to really accurately keep track of a population. A company's contribution to oppression might seem minimal, but in reality it can be much bigger. People being forced to go Android would objectively make things better as Android at least allows third party app (store) installs.

[Brooksie359]

5 minutes ago, Centurius said:

IBM didn't provide the Zyklon B for the gaschambers either. They simply sold Nazi Germany something as innocent as punch cards. Turned out those punch cards could be used to really accurately keep track of a population. A company's contribution to oppression might seem minimal, but in reality it can be much bigger. People being forced to go Android would objectively make things better as Android at least allows third party app (store) installs.

So you are saying they already have an option that allows them to get those apps through android so Apple shouldn't sell their products in that country? That seems objectively worse for everyone in that country because if you really wanted the apps then go android but if you don't care you can get Apple instead if that is what you like. Granted I have some doubt that there wouldn't be some restrictions on third part app stores in those countries. 

[BuckGup]

7 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I guess those surprised/unhappy with this are just under the delusion that Apple cares for customers over all else.

 

They dont.

 

Money comes first. They will not risk losing sales in conservative countries like China where LGBT movements are actively oppressed.

It's because Apple says they care and do things to "show" they do, so IMO it's lying to customers which I feel isn't in the companies best interest either

[Commodus]

29 minutes ago, Centurius said:

People being forced to go Android would objectively make things better as Android at least allows third party app (store) installs.

Mind you, China also takes advantage of Android to install surveillance apps on the phones of travelers in Xinjiang (it can only manage on-site scans on iPhones), so it's a double-edged sword.

[Mihle]

15 hours ago, Centurius said:

Nothing to do with being politically correct. LGBT is not all-encompassing for the community. In fact it should be larger than LGBTQIA+ but that one at least comes closest to covering most of the community. LGBT is just Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender. Essentially still fully stuck in the two genders narrative. LGBTQIA+ adds queer, intersex and asexual explicitly and provides the + to cover the large variety of other ones such as pansexual, genderfluid, demisexual, agender, etc.

I am not saying I am for or against anything, but can't you just then day LGBT+ and the three other letters just fall under +? (Maybe include Q if you want but more get very long)

[hollyh88]

i mean thats just an unfortunate side effect of wanting to do business in such countries. 

[BigDamn]

This thread is so typical of populist society. People ready to pick up their pitchforks and berate Apple, but what solutions have been proposed? Do you want Apple to defy local law by promoting these apps? Is that not culturally insensitive? Do you want Apple to pack up their bags and leave? If so, why are you not upset with Google, Microsoft, and others for operating in these countries? What exactly do you people want? Apple is intent on maximizing profits to appease their shareholders, and sometimes that includes departing from your companies values. If you see your favorite company updating their Twitter picture with rainbow colors and truly believe they care about your favorite cause, you've been played. They care about profits. Look at Chick-Fil-A, the CEO stands in support for traditional marriage, people backlash, so CFA then donates to pro LGBT causes. Do you think their values really changed? I think not.

[Retro_R]

I'm probably gonna sound like a fanboy, but like its kinda a lose-lose situation for them. I mean in these contries where its basically (or litterly) illegal to be gay/LGBT+ theres not that much to do. Like if they keep it up and refuse to follow the government, the contry will more than likely ban them, leaving Google or other companies to censor it. And if they dont censor it they'll probably just like make their own idk. If they take it down, it'll continue to further the oppresion of LGBT+ peoples in these countries. Both options kinda end up back at square one where the contry is blocking this type of speech.

 

I mean, you can't expect Apple or Microsoft to single handedly end homophobia or racism or whatever. It's up to the people and future generations to 'end' this stuff. That doesn't mean they don't deserve blame for blocking this content, it definately does a ton of harm. But again, its kinda a sticky situation.

 

Also, LGBT+ ppl in these contries also probably have bigger concerns than this. For example, not being killed or being put in jail for being LGBT+.

 

Although that being said, imma say that 99% of these companies with these rainbow twitter pfps and preaching abt 'love is love' or whatever probably dont give a rats ass about us (LGBT+ ppl) and use it as marketing to seem as PC as possible.

 

Just my thoughts, im kinda tryna see both sides just dont cancel me plz. I'm LGBT+ too

[Kisai]

13 hours ago, StDragon said:

That whole movement (LGBTQ+whatever) specifically is of no concern to me, but for me the real issue is that mega corporations have always been hypocritical. So in that regard, that whole community has my feels; it's sad frankly.

 

As for Tim Cook, you'd think after his own ox being gored he would take this matter personally. Nope. His lips are  for the all mighty 

Mega corporations are very good at speaking out of both sides of their mouth. On one side they will put out performative progressive messages, but on the other side, they go "no not really" to anyone who will object to it.

 

See how Disney both panders and cuts things for the Chinese market. They want that money, so every production has easily "cut" parts from it to not offend the Chinese government.

 

Apple is not the only one who does that, and quite frankly, we should see platitudes from corporations for what they are, platitudes. They come out with them, and are saying it to sell more product to you, they aren't an ally. When these companies stop donating to money to lobby groups working against the public good, maybe we can reconsider it. However people, especially on the right-wing side of the political spectrum tend to complain about "my free speech" but are also the first to try and censor anything they don't like. The left-wing side is more honest about wanting to censor offensive content, but can't ever seem to agree on what is offensive and what is expression.

 

Which is why North America, not just the United States, seems to have this weird obsession with censoring positive sexuality, yet isn't willing to censor violence, no matter who the violence is inflicted on.

 

As for asking an American company to take a stand and stand up for American ideals abroad,  well, just look at America's own back yard. They don't even do that here.