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Five Eyes (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, US) again call for breaking encryption, says it threatens public safety

Delicieuxz
By Delicieuxz
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Five Eyes' and other national governments call for more encryption backdoors - Encryption endangers public safety, claims Five Eyes

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In a recently published statement, members of the intelligence-sharing alliance Five Eyes along with representatives from Japan and India have called on tech companies to create a solution that would allow law enforcement agencies to access end-to-end encrypted communications.

 

The five Eyes alliance, which is made up of the US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, has been trying for years to get tech companies to agree to encryption backdoors and the group made similar calls to tech giants last year and in 2018.

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Signatories of Five Eyes' latest statement argue that end-to-end encryption has a negative impact on public safety as it prevents tech companies from identifying and responding to violations of their terms of service while also preventing law enforcement agencies from access content they need to investigate serious crimes.

 

This allows for encrypted communication platforms to become a save haven for criminal activity that puts the safety of “highly vulnerable members of our societies like sexually exploited children” in danger.

 

Officials from the Five Eyes nations also said they are committed to working with tech companies to create a solution that lets users continue to use encrypted communications, though they also want law enforcement and tech companies to have the ability to crack down on criminal activity online.

 

In addition to encrypted instant messaging applications, the alliance is also calling for encryption backdoors to be made available for “device encryption, custom encrypted applications and encryption across integrated platforms”.

 

Since 2017, the Five Eyes countries have repeatedly called for breaking end-to-end encryption and installing backdoors so that governments of the Five Eyes countries can spy on their citizens. And their calls for breaking encryption have been repeatedly criticized by tech companies and human rights groups.

 

Still, governments have not stopped seeking to have unlimited access to your digital activities and correspondences.

 

There is a line for everything. The fact is that not all crime can be stopped and not all measures should be taken to prevent any particular crime. And the access to stop crime has to be counter-balanced against how much privacy and security people should have. All murder could be stopped if all individuals were rounded-up and locked into isolated prison cells. Drunk-driving could be eradicated if automobiles were abolished. The government interest to abolish encryption is an idea in that same vein. Governments and police forces would like to see people have no privacy and no security, so that they can have unlimited access to everything and do everything they want according to their sole interest with disregard for individuals.

 

Governments are (or are supposed to be) beholden to their people. If the people don't want encryption to be broken, then governments should listen to that and abide by the will of the people. But the Five Eyes seem to not be getting the message. If privacy and security are important to you, it could be a good idea to contact your legislative representative and ask them to focus on protecting encryption, and to support candidates for office which acknowledge the importance of encryption and pledge to support it.

 

 

The Five Eyes' previous call to end encryption was just last year:

 

 

Side note: In 2018, Microsoft made a statement that users should be notified when law enforcement access their data: A call for principle-based international agreements to govern law enforcement access to data

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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5 hours ago, COTG said:

fuck government. 

^^^^^^

 

People who don't care or say "I'm not a criminal so I have nothing to hide" scare me

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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ah this never ending thing. why should anyone listen to you guys. we already know what you do, thanks snowden

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Spoiler

IMG_20200905_133309_661.jpg

 

Spoiler
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For as long as there is society, privacy vs security will exist. Whether or not said "security" in the form of reduced rates of criminal activity is true or not is irrelevant. You have places like the PRC where it is an accepted fact that the government will monitor and know every facet of you life, if only for the promise of security and a better life. You also have societies in more Western countries where companies such as Microsoft and Apple and everyday citizens will fight tooth and nail for privacy and anonymity, even if that does have some inherit risk of such technologies being misused. Personally, I'd prefer more privacy and anonymity, since I believe many of the risks that authoritarian governments point out as risks can be solved through more reasonable (and less controlling) methods. 

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Not having encryption threatens public safety far more.

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We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

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3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Five Eyes' and other national governments call for more encryption backdoors - Encryption endangers public safety, claims Five Eyes

 

Since 2017, the Five Eyes countries have repeatedly called for breaking end-to-end encryption and installing backdoors so that governments of the Five Eyes countries can spy on their citizens. And their calls for breaking encryption have been repeatedly criticized by tech companies and human rights groups.

 

Still, governments have not stopped seeking to have unlimited access to your digital activities and correspondences.

 

There is a line for everything. The fact is that not all crime can be stopped and not all measures should be taken to prevent any particular crime. And the access to stop crime has to be counter-balanced against how much privacy and security people should have. All murder could be stopped if all individuals were rounded-up and locked into isolated prison cells. Drunk-driving could be eradicated if automobiles were abolished. The government interest to abolish encryption is an idea in that same vein. Governments and police forces would like to see people have no privacy and no security, so that they can have unlimited access to everything and do everything they want according to their sole interest with disregard for individuals.

 

Governments are (or are supposed to be) beholden to their people. If the people don't want encryption to be broken, then governments should listen to that and abide by the will of the people. But the Five Eyes seem to not be getting the message. If privacy and security are important to you, it could be a good idea to contact your legislative representative and ask them to focus on protecting encryption, and to support candidates for office which acknowledge the importance of encryption and pledge to support it.

 

 

The Five Eyes' previous call to end encryption was just last year:

 

 

Side note: In 2018, Microsoft made a statement that users should be notified when law enforcement access their data: A call for principle-based international agreements to govern law enforcement access to data

That’s a crap argument based on pseudorandomly chosen extremes.  I’m not fond of the whole back door thing at all but that argument smells terrible.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

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1 hour ago, Tellos said:

Not having encryption also threatens our national defense, enemies WILL find these back doors into systems and they WILL use them to attack national defense.

This argument I like.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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3 hours ago, COTG said:

fuck government. 

History is full of “no government” instances.  It’s called “anarchy”.  It’s generally hideous. Like people in civilized societies can’t really conceptualize hideous.  “No government” is what bought the world taliban rule There was no government.  It was hideous. Taliban said “we’ve got government!”  So Afghanistan had taliban rule.  It was shitty, but it was government, and and it was better than what they had.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

History is full of “no government” instances.  It’s called “anarchy”.  It’s generally hideous. Like people in civilized societies can’t really conceptualize hideous.  “No government” is what bought the world taliban rule There was no government.  It was hideous. Taliban said “we’ve got government!”  So Afghanistan had taliban rule.  It was shitty, but it was government, and and it was better than what they had.

The issue is when those in government willingly ignore the fact they work for the electorate and not the other way around. So, totalitarianism takes root and thus oppression becomes the new normal.

 

Hubris is part of the human condition. It's literally in the DNA.

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20 minutes ago, StDragon said:

The issue is when those in government willingly ignore the fact they work for the electorate and not the other way around. So, totalitarianism takes root and thus oppression becomes the new normal.

 

Hubris is part of the human condition. It's literally in the DNA.

So not fuck government but fix government.  Different thing.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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46 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

That’s a crap argument based on pseudorandomly chosen extremes.  I’m not fond of the whole back door thing at all but that argument smells terrible.

I don't know in what way you think it's a bad argument. Those are all examples of destroying the greater good for the sake of combatting a negative which the greater good enables the possibility of. I think it's a fitting argument.

 

Every greater good will enable many things which can be good and bad. Wanting to prevent some of those things isn't a justified reason to take away the greater good.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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3 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I don't know in what way you think it's a bad argument. Those are all examples of destroying the greater good for the sake of combatting a negative which the greater good enables the possibility of. I think it's a fitting argument.

 

Every greater good will enable many things which can be good and bad. Wanting to prevent some of those things isn't a justified reason to take away the greater good.

Yes they are, but there silly extremist ones generally. It makes your point also sound silly and extremist and I don’t think it is. What would be the minimum solutions rather than the ones that support your point?

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yes they are, but there silly extremist ones generally. It makes your point also sound silly and extremist and I don’t think it is. What would be the minimum solutions rather than the ones that support your point?

I didn't propose an extremist solution, I showed the extremist approach of destroying encryption to prevent it being used for illegal activities. Breaking encryption to enable spying on everybody for the sake of fighting crime (though, it would be exploited for all sorts of things, and people need privacy against the government, too) is an extremist move. Characterizing it as one alongside other hypothetical extremist moves is therefore fitting.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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7 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I didn't propose an extremist solution, I showed the extremist approach of destroying encryption to prevent it being used for illegal activities. Breaking encryption to enable spying on everybody for the sake of fighting crime (though it would be exploited for all sorts of things) is an extremist move. Characterizing it as one alongside other hypothetical extremist moves is therefore fitting.

It doesn’t matter what the solution was.  The argument was already lost.  It states how you feel but makes that feeling look irrational because the choices of solutions to problems was irrational. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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27 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

It doesn’t matter what the solution was.  The argument was already lost.  It states how you feel but makes that feeling look irrational because the choices of solutions to problems was irrational. 

You must have misread my post. I didn't propose a solution - irrational or otherwise. I identified the government desire to create what would be a problem. And, yes, the problem is irrational. So, if it is characterized as irrational, then that's fitting.

 

My proposal is that people their legislative representatives to protect encryption: "If privacy and security are important to you, it could be a good idea to contact your legislative representative and ask them to focus on protecting encryption, and to support candidates for office which acknowledge the importance of encryption and pledge to support it."

 

And I don't think you could be calling that irrational.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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10 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

You must have misread my post. I didn't propose a solution - irrational or otherwise. I identified the government desire to create what would be a problem. And, yes, the problem is irrational. So, if it is characterized as irrational, then that's fitting.

 

My proposal is that people their legislative representatives to protect encryption: "If privacy and security are important to you, it could be a good idea to contact your legislative representative and ask them to focus on protecting encryption, and to support candidates for office which acknowledge the importance of encryption and pledge to support it."

 

And I don't think you could be calling that irrational.

I’m not even talking about the summation.  I’m talking about the comparisons. The comparisons are so bad the summation becomes irrelevant. 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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@Delicieuxz the point is your examples sch as banning all cars to stop drink driving are so far beyond anything anyone's even seriously considered that they don't hold up. In that example banning all cars not only stops drink driving it also stops any driving. The anti-encryption agenda might mean an end to secure communication online if it goes anywhere, but it won;t mean an end to online communication at all.

 

A more realistic example would be drink driving legislation that involves requiring having a chip implanted in you that monitors your blood for alcohol or several types of drugs and disables any car you get into the drivers seat of if it detects them, with all people and vehicles having to be compliant. A lot of people would take askance at having to have such an implant in them, not to mention the possibble ways such a device in a car could be abused to disable a vehicle for nefarious purposes.

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19 hours ago, CarlBar said:

@Delicieuxz the point is your examples sch as banning all cars to stop drink driving are so far beyond anything anyone's even seriously considered that they don't hold up. In that example banning all cars not only stops drink driving it also stops any driving. The anti-encryption agenda might mean an end to secure communication online if it goes anywhere, but it won;t mean an end to online communication at all.

In the statement of banning automobiles, the subject is automobiles. And in the statement of breaking encryption, the subject is encryption, not online communication. I don't know why someone would change the subject of the statement on breaking encryption to online communication itself when that isn't said in what I wrote.

 

An analogy to abolishing automobiles to prevent drunk-driving resulting in the loss of all automobiles (and therefore driving) would actually be the breaking of encryption for the sake of enabling government and LEO spying and investigating for criminal cases resulting in the loss of all true encryption - and therefore the loss of all genuine communications encryption and privacy (not the loss of online communications, itself). And that is the situation. And so, the comparison I made holds-up and is fitting.

 

A claim that breaking encrypted communication would result in the end of all online communication (which asserts that encrypted communications are the only possible method of online communication) would be analogous to a claim that abolishing automobiles would result in the loss of all transportation or movement from one place to another (which asserts that automobiles are the only possible method of transportation and moving). And I didn't make that claim.

 

 

The Five Eyes' statement says:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/international-statement-end-end-encryption-and-public-safety

Quote

We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the UN Human Rights Council[1].  Encryption is an existential anchor of trust in the digital world and we do not support counter-productive and dangerous approaches that would materially weaken or limit security systems. 

 

Particular implementations of encryption technology, however, pose significant challenges to public safety, including to highly vulnerable members of our societies like sexually exploited children. We urge industry to address our serious concerns where encryption is applied in a way that wholly precludes any legal access to content. We call on technology companies to work with governments to take the following steps, focused on reasonable, technically feasible solutions:

  • Embed the safety of the public in system designs, thereby enabling companies to act against illegal content and activity effectively with no reduction to safety, and facilitating the investigation and prosecution of offences and safeguarding the vulnerable;
  • Enable law enforcement access to content in a readable and usable format where an authorisation is lawfully issued, is necessary and proportionate, and is subject to strong safeguards and oversight; and
  • Engage in consultation with governments and other stakeholders to facilitate legal access in a way that is substantive and genuinely influences design decisions.

 

But the reality is that breaking encryption and creating backdoors for government and LEO would mean the end of encryption and the privacy it grants. And so, the greater good is lost for the sake of preventing one of the things the greater good enables - just like abolishing automobiles to combat drunk-driving would.

 

The government request that encryption be broken just enough to allow government and law enforcement access to communications is absurd and irrational, because there is no such thing. To break encryption that much for government and law enforcement means that true encryption itself isn't there, and that the open doors can be used by anyone - not just government and law enforcement. To break encryption for government and law enforcement is to no have encryption or the privacy it grants.

 

Privacy except from government and law enforcement (and hackers and foreign spies and corporations who make the hardware and software) isn't privacy at all.

You own the software that you purchase - Understanding software licenses and EULAs

 

"We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the american public believes is false" - William Casey, CIA Director 1981-1987

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5 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, have you tried not being a criminal?

Nope I don't want to be apart of it

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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