Five Eyes (Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, US) again call for breaking encryption, says it threatens public safety

[bcredeur97]

We seriously need to stop trading privacy for security. I'm tired of it. 

We can't just all live a life of fear. Isn't that what the bad guys want anyway? They probably are so disgustingly satisfied by our airport security lines.

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

We seriously need to stop trading privacy for security. I'm tired of it. 

We can't just all live a life of fear. Isn't that what the bad guys want anyway? They probably are so disgustingly satisfied by our airport security lines.

Unfortunately, the bad guys are in government and are the ones asking for people to accept the loss of privacy in exchange for 'security' (which isn't true security at all).

[Zodiark1593]

38 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

@Delicieuxz the point is your examples sch as banning all cars to stop drink driving are so far beyond anything anyone's even seriously considered that they don't hold up. In that example banning all cars not only stops drink driving it also stops any driving. The anti-encryption agenda might mean an end to secure communication online if it goes anywhere, but it won;t mean an end to online communication at all.

 

A more realistic example would be drink driving legislation that involves requiring having a chip implanted in you that monitors your blood for alcohol or several types of drugs and disables any car you get into the drivers seat of if it detects them, with all people and vehicles having to be compliant. A lot of people would take askance at having to have such an implant in them, not to mention the possibble ways such a device in a car could be abused to disable a vehicle for nefarious purposes.

It won’t kill encrypted end to end because open source apps already exist, algorithms are known and accessible, and future apps can be freely developed. In the US at least, computer code is also currently protected speech. To ensure sovereign-resistant end to end encryption is killed would mean tight regulations on the development of computer programming, and who can/can’t write code. That ship had set sailed many decades ago. Short of implementing an internet whitelist for all sites, it is practically impossible to police the use of encryption by individuals and bad actors. 

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

*wonders whether he should bother to look up lolicon or not* *does it anyway*

https://definition.org/define/lolicon/

ew.

[Arika]

is anyone really that surprised? they will keep trying forever and ever until they get what they want. at NO point will the 5eyes just give up and go "well damn, looks like we can't do it"

[StDragon]

2 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

We seriously need to stop trading privacy for security. I'm tired of it. 

We can't just all live a life of fear. Isn't that what the bad guys want anyway? They probably are so disgustingly satisfied by our airport security lines.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." --Benjamin Franklin

[RejZoR]

Ah yes, when it's not "muh terrorism" it's "think of the children"...

[MetEishYa]

What these governments don't get is: If a back door is made for the UK, US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand  officials, other countries like South Africa will also want a back door. The back doors will then eventually get into the hands of criminals organizations as corruption is everywhere in South Africa. 

What's worst than no encryption? Compromised encryption were no one knows it has been compromised.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

If a backdoor is baked inside an encrypted system, than you might as well consider it not encrypted. Because it isn't. As soon as the backdoor is discovered, everyone everywhere can bypass said encryption.

Only the extremes make sense as an argument:

• Forbid encryption: Allow everyone to see everything
• Encryption with open source implementation: Allow secure communication between private parties

The problem with a ban on encryption is that it doesn't require huge capitals and facilities like a centrifuge for uranium enrichment. Criminals can simply use custom programs on their phones with a vanilla android and nobody would be able to sniff the communication, which leave only the downsides for the public.

 

[RejZoR]

I'd like to meet and shake the hand of this absolute monumental idiot who proposed this dog shit. The point of encryption is that it's universally considered as unbreakable when properly implemented and thus secure and trusted, be it for your mails, web sites, online shops or filling a form for your tax returns. As soon as you're starting to shove backdoors into it, it's no longer considered secure and thus becomes entirely pointless. Not having a trusted encryption would be devastating for e-commerce.

 

Also, has no one learned anything from the Stasi? Someone posted above their machine to open letters without being visible so they could spy on their people. The letters were the encryption of the "old" days. Today it's crypto cypher. Americans so quickly jump to charge against fascism and for freedom, so where are you all now? Coz this is the exact opposite of freedom and sounds pretty fucking fascist to me. Terrorism and child pornography is just a smoke screen, the most vanilla go to excuse to push garbage like this.

[Doobeedoo]

Ahh of courses, safety btw, we just want to control over everything. It's also like purpose of encryption is there for reasons. But yeah I have nothing to hide, that's it I'm also removing all my door locks. 

[S w a t s o n]

Damn I was really hoping this wasnt all the countries, went to the source and saw it was US DoJ statement and gained a sliver of hope. But then I see the signatories at the bottom. Why does our public safety minister that oversaw the legalization of marijuana want to end encryption??? I thought he wasn't a complete retard but I guess he's too boomer to understand it's physically impossible.

[Bombastinator]

I suspect this one will keep coming up as long as some intelligence officer somewhere says “breaking encryption is a PITA.  It would be a lot easier for me if this wasn’t allowed” another unending fight that only has to be lost once.

 

I expect eventually the concept of licensing for end to end encryption will come up.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Trik'Stari]

I'm going to keep saying this.

 

We should jump onboard with it, and force it through with the stipulation that it applies as much to elected officials as it does to the common citizen.

 

Then sit back and watch the fireworks ensue as 4Chan leaks all of congress' text messages and emails.

 

I'd prefer we not have to go this route, but if these daft bastards aren't going to give up then I say we go full on malicious compliance.

[XenosTech]

14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I'm going to keep saying this.

 

We should jump onboard with it, and force it through with the stipulation that it applies as much to elected officials as it does to the common citizen.

 

Then sit back and watch the fireworks ensue as 4Chan leaks all of congress' text messages and emails.

 

I'd prefer we not have to go this route, but if these daft bastards aren't going to give up then I say we go full on malicious compliance.

I'd rather the common man not be apart of their fodder but sometimes you have to give a man as much rope as he wants and watch him hang himself.

[Master Disaster]

I've said this before but once again...

 

Do these morons not realise their own security services rely on encryption to keep their own secrets, well secret? You put in a backdoor and you invite any other nation with enough motivation to find it and use it against you. The Russians and Chinese want to spy on them more than they want to spy on us.

[Bombastinator]

34 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I've said this before but once again...

 

Do these morons not realise their own security services rely on encryption to keep their own secrets, well secret? You put in a backdoor and you invite any other nation with enough motivation to find it and use it against you. The Russians and Chinese want to spy on them more than they want to spy on us.

My suspicion was it was A single moron who wanted to make his job easier and didn’t think beyond that, so he wrote a memo to people who knew far less about tech than he did.

[paddy-stone]

What I'd like to know, is if and when this actually gets through, and poor old joe bloggs gets all his data stolen, and bank accounts wiped, credit score trashed and has hundreds of thousands of dollars/whatever taken out in his name etc - What are the governments going to do for him? and all the rest of the people similarly affected by the governments legislature?  and this isn't even including his/her public image for want of a better word being trashed too because of his/her activities/beliefs being open to the world to see... maybe he can no longer get a job anywhere, have somewhere to live, and is then forced to live as a homeless person because of this shit.

They can't guarantee that this information that they will then be able to collect about you, won't be stolen/leaked/mislaid and effectively have doxxed everyone.

[jagdtigger]

4 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

What I'd like to know, is if and when this actually gets through, and poor old joe bloggs gets all his data stolen, and bank accounts wiped, credit score trashed and has hundreds of thousands of dollars/whatever taken out in his name etc - What are the governments going to do for him? and all the rest of the people similarly affected by the governments legislature?  and this isn't even including his/her public image for want of a better word being trashed too because of his/her activities/beliefs being open to the world to see... maybe he can no longer get a job anywhere, have somewhere to live, and is then forced to live as a homeless person because of this shit.

They can't guarantee that this information that they will then be able to collect about you, won't be stolen/leaked/mislaid and effectively have doxxed everyone.

This actually could wipe many company too if their VPN gets this crap.......

[Trik'Stari]

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I've said this before but once again...

 

Do these morons not realise their own security services rely on encryption to keep their own secrets, well secret? You put in a backdoor and you invite any other nation with enough motivation to find it and use it against you. The Russians and Chinese want to spy on them more than they want to spy on us.

They already do it despite encryption.

 

That's what bothers me, is that no one is telling them apparently. Or they're just too stupid to understand?

[Maticks]

The second an application has confirmed no encryption and privacy that company might as well file for bankrupcy.

Everyone will dump the platform so fast even if they aren't breaking the law, people just want to feel that they are having a private conversation.

 

Really would be no different than saying every room in every home must have a Gov Microphone in it and all conversations will be sent back to be looked into for security reasons.

 

If the likes of P2P File sharing has tought us anything.. people did computer application P2P File sharing like Napster and Limewire.

The Gov shut down that similar to this break the encryption arguement, so people created a decentralized system called Torrents.

 

They will just do this again.. someone will come up with a way to encrypt data and decentralize it again.

[DashFire61]

I like how this is them blatantly ignoring the fact that with encryption, countries like Iran, Russia China and North Korea are constantly able to break into the USA's largest private companies and caused tens of millions of dollars of damage, as well as things like elements of the F35 being stolen by china and incorporate into their Joint Strike Fighter. The USA opened pandoras box with stuxnet and havent been able to get a handle on it since and now they want to shoot themselves in the foot by making every company and service a mine for foreign actors to gather every us citizens information and exploit it.

[DashFire61]

and lets be honest, most of the time I would rather Iran have my data than the US government

[XenosTech]

4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Or they're just too stupid to understand?

Definitely this, it's  the only w ay  it's  going to make sense  to the likes of  us

[Justaphysicsnerd]

On 10/19/2020 at 1:43 AM, Delicieuxz said:

they also want law enforcement and tech companies to have the ability to crack down on criminal activity online.

What happened to that pandora's box thingy program that snowden had leaked ? Isn't that enough of the US looking into my emails and personal pr0n collection  photo collection which stored on an online storage service