Which is Scarier? Aliens or No Aliens

[kpluck]

16 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

NASA has already admitted that UFO's are real soooo....

UFO ≠ aliens soooo…

 

-kp

[Andreas Lilja]

17 hours ago, UnfinishedBizz said:

Right, but UFOS =/= Aliens. They will admit there are objects that are unidentified they have seen flying through. A UFO can be many things.

I think he's refering to the dubious NYT editorials, namely Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumental.

[piratemonkey]

each possibility is equally terrifying

[Bad5ector]

50 minutes ago, Fatih19 said:

Why? You'll be dead a long long time before that happens.

Do you really want to get into it?

 

Basically I find it deeply depressing that if we actually get off this rock, and explore and see other planets and try to save the human race. In the end it won't matter. It will all just be over, no matter how smart, rich, famous you are... Trying to keep the species alive simply seems unimportant. The universe doesn't give a fuck about us and will eventually just die itself. To me I find that deeply depressing and try not to think about it and just enjoy what little time I have on this plane of existence knowing that in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters.

 

And let me be clear, I do not suffer from any form of depression (unless you count hating Monday's)... this is just something that will pop into my head some random night before sleep and that's that. You're right, I'll be long dead by then, back to the darkness from which I came so to speak but I still feel some sort of unexplained hopelessness when I really start to think about it. I never said it was rational... but hey, that's life for ya.

[piratemonkey]

1 minute ago, Bad5ector said:

Do you really want to get into it?

 

Basically I find it deeply depressing that if we actually get off this rock, and explore and see other planets and try to save the human race. In the end it won't matter. It will all just be over, no matter how smart, rich, famous you are... Trying to keep the species alive simply seems unimportant. The universe doesn't give a fuck about us and will eventually just die itself. To me I find that deeply depressing and try not to think about it and just enjoy what little time I have on this plane of existence knowing that in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters.

 

And let me be clear, I do not suffer from any form of depression (unless you count hating Monday's)... this is just something that will pop into my head some random night before sleep and that's that. You're right, I'll be long dead by then, back to the darkness from which I came so to speak but I still feel some sort of unexplained hopelessness when I really start to think about it. I never said it was rational... but hey, that's life for ya.

It's called existentialism. I think the only way to counteract it is if you're religious and you have whatever afterlife you believe in to look forward to. Besides that, it's a feeling almost everyone will have at one point or another. I know I struggle with it

[kelvinhall05]

I think the most likely answer is the most disappointing: there is life, but it's extremely basic, single-celled organisms at best. Although it would be pretty fucking cool if there were other species as advanced or more advanced than we are (or, I guess, will be), it's unlikely imo.

[Bad5ector]

• @piratemonkey yeah I guess you're right about it being existentialisim. Good times lol. 

[Commodus]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:57 PM, Bad5ector said:

Do you really want to get into it?

 

Basically I find it deeply depressing that if we actually get off this rock, and explore and see other planets and try to save the human race. In the end it won't matter. It will all just be over, no matter how smart, rich, famous you are... Trying to keep the species alive simply seems unimportant. The universe doesn't give a fuck about us and will eventually just die itself. To me I find that deeply depressing and try not to think about it and just enjoy what little time I have on this plane of existence knowing that in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters.

 

And let me be clear, I do not suffer from any form of depression (unless you count hating Monday's)... this is just something that will pop into my head some random night before sleep and that's that. You're right, I'll be long dead by then, back to the darkness from which I came so to speak but I still feel some sort of unexplained hopelessness when I really start to think about it. I never said it was rational... but hey, that's life for ya.

I look at it this way: humanity is a precious opportunity for the universe to study and enjoy itself. Whether we and our descendants are around for a million years or 10 billion, we're privileged observers who should make the most of the time we have.

 

Your thoughts are arguably a key reason why religion exists: we were scared of the lack of prescribed meaning in the universe and decided to create one for ourselves. It's just that science has clarified how we should create that meaning. Instead of trying to pretend we'll last forever, we should recognize just how valuable our time really is.

[Bad5ector]

@Commodus Absolutely!

 

I think the band Nightwish said it best in the song Greatest Show on Earth. We are privileged to even be alive as there are far more that never got the chance to even experience this. (Paraphrasing). Basically our DNA tells us that the number of possible lives that could be is far greater than of those that actually make it to existence. That has really changed my perspective on heat death. I mean... what is the estimated time line until then? 10 to the power of 31 or something? Still though, makes me sad to think that at some point in the universe's history, if life is still around on planets, that that life will look up and just see darkness in their night sky, or just a few stars (whatever is in their solar system) thanks to the rapid expansion of space.

[Commodus]

14 minutes ago, Bad5ector said:

@Commodus Absolutely!

 

I think the band Nightwish said it best in the song Greatest Show on Earth. We are privileged to even be alive as there are far more that never got the chance to even experience this. (Paraphrasing). Basically our DNA tells us that the number of possible lives that could be is far greater than of those that actually make it to existence. That has really changed my perspective on heat death. I mean... what is the estimated time line until then? 10 to the power of 31 or something? Still though, makes me sad to think that at some point in the universe's history, if life is still around on planets, that that life will look up and just see darkness in their night sky, or just a few stars (whatever is in their solar system) thanks to the rapid expansion of space.

Exactly. That you're alive and self-aware on this planet, even in the midst of a pandemic, is an extremely rare opportunity in  in a universe where most planets are probably lifeless and the very prospect of visiting other star systems (let alone all of them) seems remote.

 

And in case you're curious: heat death could be as far back as 10 to the 106th power in years. There's also been speculation that quantum fluctuations and tunnelling could start another universe at an even further point (10 to the 10th to the 10th to the 56th power in years), so if the thought of the universe being reduced to a void is unnerving, just know there's a chance that it'll start all over again. Although that raises questions of whether or not there were universes before ours...

[Bad5ector]

1 minute ago, Commodus said:

here's also been speculation that quantum fluctuations and tunnelling could start another universe at an even further point

 

Funny, before I started looking at it the way I do now, part of me used that as comfort when I had my episodes lol. 

[Donut417]

On 10/2/2020 at 2:28 AM, mahyar said:

or their tech might not be as good as us

Remember we had 800 years where science was set back, aka the Dark Ages. So..... they could be way ahead of us. 

[SolarNova]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:21 AM, UnfinishedBizz said:

There have been discussions in the past on whether or not it's troubling to think that there may be no aliens vs aliens in the universe. Odds are there should be aliens in the universe (Drake Equation) but I think it would be creepy if we really are the only ones out here. I can't be the only one right? It would be really cool to see their technology and how it works.

The existence of Alien life is a mathematical and scientific certainty. We just havnt found it yet.

 

To put it bluntly. Those that cant accept that are either A) Religious, B) incapable of rudimentary understanding of the scale of the Universe.

 

Ofc, both A and B are widespread, and its nothing to be ashamed of tbh. Your welcome to ur Faith and not being able to grasp how massive (an understatement for sure) the universe is isnt uncommon, its mind bending even for the most esteemed scientific minds.

 

but the question isnt 'If' we find Alien Life,, its 'when'.

 

i dont have the problem thinking about the notion of their being no Alien life, i find it incredibly arrogant of any1 who does at least somewhat understand the scale of the universe, to think we are either A) the only intelligent life in the universe, or even B) are on the only stellar object that has life of any form on it.

 

45 minutes ago, Bad5ector said:

that that life will look up and just see darkness in their night sky, or just a few stars

Most people who live in cities already do experience that

[mahyar]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Remember we had 800 years where science was set back, aka the Dark Ages. So..... they could be way ahead of us. 

how do you know they  dont/didnt have a dark age?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

The first thing to notice when discussing alien life is that there is no such thing as alien life, there is just life. The alien /non-alien distinction is arbitrary and completely based on point of view (alien to Earth just means local to somewhere else, the same way life on Earth already is alien life to any other planet).

Then it becomes clear that there is no debate: existence of life is well established - ample proof on Earth. Hence, for no alien (to us) life to exist, it would require not just existence but uniqueness to be proven. And as anyone who has taken some steps into a scientific discipline will know, after establishing existence, the burden of proof is on the uniqueness claim, not the other way around. Hence, there is life in the universe and therefore it could be found in different places and moments of time unless proven otherwise. Someone would need to argue and prove that there's something truly unique about Earth and impossible to reproduce elsewhere in the universe to justify that, despite the abundance of life on Earth, it is impossible for it to take place anywhere else, at any point of the history of the universe. Needless to say, nothing remotely close to such proof has even been provided.

In fact, most/all arguments against life outside Earth tend to rely on a fallacious reversal of the burden of proof, some form or another of "something is unique until proven otherwise, and I've seen no proof", which is not how it works. Ultimately, this kind of framing stems not from reason, but from the atavistic anthropocentric vie (almighty gods care about our lives specifically, they created humans to their image, etc) shifted towards our planet (Earth is the center of the universe and the sun moves around it, this is the only magical place where life would take root, etc). "Earth vs. the rest" is a natural subjective way to frame things (just like "me vs. everyone else", "members of my tribe vs. other tribes", "nationals of my country vs. foreigners -or aliens :P-", "humans vs. every other species"), but has no objective basis.

 

 

On 10/2/2020 at 4:04 AM, UnfinishedBizz said:

 We are moving forward in human history where we are advancing everyday and people are becoming more informed and less afraid of the unknown. 

(...)

Tech, medicine, ideas, values, relationships. It's more than just tech, humanity has advanced considerably.

I don't see any evidence of this (even the concept of "advancing" is problematic in this context). What is your source? For all practical purposes, humans are still born the exact same babies as 10,000 years ago, with the same instincts, (lack of) knowledge and ability to learn. We live longer thanks to scientific advancement, but we still need to spend about the same amount of time to acquire the same amount of skill and wisdom. And what you are discussing here is not technical knowledge but cultural change: there isn't even a consensus on what is "the most advanced" culture, and any evolution-like force driving cultural traits may not necessarily go in the direction you'd want. If you look at least 200 years back, you'll see the same phenomena resurfacing over and over again, politics following sort of pendular movements, bigotry and scapegoating running rampant... Technology expands, but people are the same, they're just more powerful to do the same people-like things than before. So I don't see a compelling reason to expect a change in the way we interact with the unknown as a group.

 

 

On 10/2/2020 at 4:12 AM, Fatih19 said:

Nah, I'm perfectly fine with us being alone in the universe.

We're not, though - we're surrounded by more life than we can manage to study and catalogue in our same planet.

Although I would say that anyone fascinated about the idea of meeting an alien civilization should ponder on how much effort we in general, and they in particular, are doing to establish communication and exchange with gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, etc. Because, whatever we find out there, it will never have as good a chance at being as human and approachable than our primate cousins. We can never expect to have it that easy with species from random places in the universe. Judging by the current state of affairs, I'd say we are a looong way from dreaming of making anything useful of contacting transcendent space amoebas (other than perhaps a new type of meat ). We have a lot of getting-ready to make...

[Shreyas1]

I am more afraid of a potential great filter in our future than a race of aliens that are too far away to even communicate with, much less reach us.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, mahyar said:

how do you know they  dont/didnt have a dark age?

I don’t. But there is a possibility. 800 more years of tech advancement could make them way ahead. 

[spartaman64]

no aliens is scarier because theres something wiping them out. 

[Tan3l6]

I'm more afraid of supervolcanoes and asteroids.

But also aliens might be as random as people - some law-abiding, others do what they please. If they are "more advanced".

[mahyar]

13 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I don’t. But there is a possibility. 800 more years of tech advancement could make them way ahead. 

first that dark age was only in europe and america second WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE IT 

[BetteBalterZen]

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6400614/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9107368/

 

^watch those

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 hours ago, mahyar said:

first that dark age was only in europe

This is true.

2 hours ago, mahyar said:

and america 

this is not, although there could be a remarkable coincidence? But i think that ain't the case, except maybe for the Mayas.

 

 

More generally, there's more to technological progress than the mere passage of time. ~800 years is also the lapse between Alexander the Great and the fall of the Roman Empire. Or between the foundation of Rome and the crucifixion of Jesus. Technology wasn't frozen then, but it wasn't really frozen in Europe either, and as @mahyar pointed out, the middle-age stagnation is only a European phenomenon, not a mankind-wide phenomenon.

Ultimately, if fast technological progress is what you are after, the "dark age" is basically everything except the last 300 years.

[mahyar]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

This is true.

this is not, although there could be a remarkable coincidence? But i think that ain't the case, except maybe for the Mayas.

 

 

More generally, there's more to technological progress than the mere passage of time. ~800 years is also the lapse between Alexander the Great and the fall of the Roman Empire. Or between the foundation of Rome and the crucifixion of Jesus. Technology wasn't frozen then, but it wasn't really frozen in Europe either, and as @mahyar pointed out, the middle-age stagnation is only a European phenomenon, not a mankind-wide phenomenon.

Ultimately, if fast technological progress is what you are after, the "dark age" is basically everything except the last 300 years.

trust me i had to study these at school because here cares a lot about history and tbh we have a rich history

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 minutes ago, mahyar said:

trust me i had to study these at school because here cares a lot about history and tbh we have a rich history

Well, I don't where "here" is but we tend to study American history in the American continent, and as you may expect, given the European middle age ends precisely at the beginning of the American colonization, during the European middle age America and Europe hardly have a reason to be in sync when it comes to technological, economical or political cycles. In fact, both the Aztec and the Quechua empires were growing towards their zenith at those times; it's just the Mayan civilization that might have been declining around the time of the European middle ages, but that's more of a coincidence than a shared phenomenon.

[mahyar]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, I don't where "here"

iran

and thanks for informing me