Which is Scarier? Aliens or No Aliens

[Praesi]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

This is not true - at least if we are considering generational ships too. 
 

The closest solar system - Alpha Centauri - is around 4.37 light years away. 
 

If we manage to get conventional propulsion systems to approach anywhere near light speed, then reaching other systems in our galactic neighbourhood is simply inevitable.

 

If we can reach significant percentages of c, then we could even reach the closer systems in a single human lifespan. 
 

And honestly in the span of thousands of years, either reaching near c, or discovering science that can allow superluminal travel, is just a matter of time. 

I talked about reaching Alien Life. And that is impossible. Not in a Billion Years we would find anything. The Universe is too big.

[whm1974]

4 hours ago, Praesi said:

I talked about reaching Alien Life. And that is impossible. Not in a Billion Years we would find anything. The Universe is too big.

I don't know about impossible. If We could use Generational and/or Sleeper Spacecraft traveling at a decent degree of Light, using whatever nonconventional propulsion systems. It would be possible to another Star System that has a Earth like Planet capable of supporting Human Life.

[dizmo]

10 hours ago, mahyar said:

first they might be peaceful and second uranium is not a common element in galaxy

Do we try to communicate with ants? No.

Also, who says that their propulsion has to be uranium? It's entirely possible they have elements we don't even know about.

10 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

@dizmo

 

There are certain conditions where life can’t exist. For example “shit out diamonds” would quite literally be impossible. Same as if the temp was say 30K 

Until we've fully explored the galaxy, you can't say it's impossible.

[Praesi]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Until we've fully explored the galaxy, you can't say it's impossible.

 

A Hypothesis i guess?

[dalekphalm]

9 hours ago, Praesi said:

I talked about reaching Alien Life. And that is impossible. Not in a Billion Years we would find anything. The Universe is too big.

Even this statement is at best hypothetical. 
 

You say impossible, but based on what?

 

As we have already established, humans in the next 1000 years will be more than capable of reaching the closer systems to Sol. 
 

Some of those systems could easily contain life. Some may even contain intelligent life. 
 

And galaxy wide, there are almost certainly multiple different species on different planets at various technology levels. 

 

To say impossible simply makes no sense. It’s not realistic when you know how common exoplanets are, and what percentage of them exist within the sweet spot.

[BiG StroOnZ]

I usually/normally try to share this link sparingly throughout the year, but it just so happens that this thread popped up; therefore I feel obliged to share it at the moment.

 

Enjoy:

 

http://frombob.to/you/aconvers.html

 

 / 

 

Note: This is quite long, so easy does it. 

[Praesi]

16 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Even this statement is at best hypothetical. 
 

You say impossible, but based on what?

 

As we have already established, humans in the next 1000 years will be more than capable of reaching the closer systems to Sol. 
 

Some of those systems could easily contain life. Some may even contain intelligent life. 
 

And galaxy wide, there are almost certainly multiple different species on different planets at various technology levels. 

 

To say impossible simply makes no sense. It’s not realistic when you know how common exoplanets are, and what percentage of them exist within the sweet spot.

Billions of Galaxies, with Billions of Systems, with Billions and Billions and Billions of Planets. Spread across the known Universe which is 92.000.000.000 Lightsyears big. Dont fool yourself.

[Bombastinator]

I offer as counterpoint part of a novel by Kurt Vonnegut.  He postulates as example an alien that communicates through farting and tap dancing.  Upon arriving on earth he spots a farmhouse who’s barn is on fire.  In order to help the farmer he bursts into the house frantically farting and tap Dancing whereupon the farmer brains him with a golf club. 

[Praesi]

19 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I offer as counterpoint part of a novel by Kurt Vonnegut.  He postulates as example an alien that communicates through farting and tap dancing.  Upon arriving on earth he spots a farmhouse who’s barn is on fire.  In order to help the farmer he bursts into the house frantically farting and tap Dancing whereupon the farmer brains him with a golf club. 

In this case, i communicate with Aliens every mornig.

[dizmo]

11 hours ago, Praesi said:

I talked about reaching Alien Life. And that is impossible. Not in a Billion Years we would find anything. The Universe is too big.

I don't think you fully grasp how long a billion years is if you're making a statement like that.

4 hours ago, Caroline said:

You really don't want to meet them. I mean the whole 'aliens species' it's a conspiracy theory or whatevs right now, you have the grey ones with large eyes, the lizard kind, some weird humans and the blonde, there's even a book

  Reveal hidden contents

Think about it, she's out of place. what's with that dress? the rest are nude or have a tight suit, why breasts? again, the rest are... things, you never know if they're male, female, both... and the eyes, blue and the rest are usually black or yellowish. idk, just too strange, I'd trust the huge lizard with sharp claws rather than the blonde, maybe he's a chill guy but has a look that's strange to us.

There's a book?! Hahaha yessss.

I mean. That one looks like's got the crazy eyes. I wouldn't go near a chick with crazy eyes.

3 hours ago, Praesi said:

A Hypothesis i guess?

Right, but if that's the case you can't state it as fact.

[Praesi]

Just now, dizmo said:

I don't think you fully grasp how long a billion years is if you're making a statement like that.

I dont think you realise how big the Universe is.

[Lord Vile]

8 hours ago, dizmo said:

Do we try to communicate with ants? No.

Also, who says that their propulsion has to be uranium? It's entirely possible they have elements we don't even know about.

Until we've fully explored the galaxy, you can't say it's impossible.

Based on the laws of thermodynamics there are places in the universe too cold for chemical reactions to take place therefore no life can survive in those places 

[whm1974]

4 hours ago, Praesi said:

I dont think you realise how big the Universe is.

And are We talking about the Universe or our Galaxy alone?  There are a number of Exoplanets within Human reach. Granted better propulsion systems are needed, and at first with probes of some kind. But this can be done.

[dizmo]

10 hours ago, Praesi said:

I dont think you realise how big the Universe is.

I do. You don't have to explore the entire thing to find life. They've found 24 relatively close planets that could support life better than earth does.

7 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Based on the laws of thermodynamics there are places in the universe too cold for chemical reactions to take place therefore no life can survive in those places 

Ok. And your point is..?

34 minutes ago, Caroline said:

There's a book

 

not sure who met all of those aliens and wrote their bio though

Flat Earthers. 100%.

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Ok. And your point is..?

 

18 hours ago, dizmo said:

Until we've fully explored the galaxy, you can't say it's impossible.

Certain points in the universe would not be able to sustain life because chemical reactions do not occur under certain circumstances. You cannot get life where everything expect a small handful of elements are solids. If there's no energy in a system you cannot trigger a reaction, no reaction = no life. Take the surface of Pluto for example, it has an average surface temp of 44 kelvin, how many elements are liquid or gaseous at that temperature? Oxygen? Nope FP of around 55K, Nitrogen? 63K. The only elements that aren't frozen solid are Hydrogen, Helium and Neon. So hydrogen and 2 inert elements in an environment with no energy to trigger reactions. Definitely a great chance of life there. Maybe there's a chance inside somewhere like Pluto in a liquid layer under the surface but that would depend on the composition, pressure and temperature of that layer, but my point was mainly about the temperature of areas making some places inhabitable and now I'm getting side-tracked. 

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I do. You don't have to explore the entire thing to find life. They've found 24 relatively close planets that could support life better than earth does.

I think those exoplanets are merely in their Star's Habitable Zone. You know where water can exist in it's liquid state. Life may or may not have arose there or are microscopic.

[Praesi]

14 hours ago, whm1974 said:

And are We talking about the Universe or our Galaxy alone?  There are a number of Exoplanets within Human reach. Granted better propulsion systems are needed, and at first with probes of some kind. But this can be done.

I meant the Universe. But it doesnt matter. Our Galaxy alone is too big. I know People like the Idea. I do too. But its nothing but wishful thinking.

[dizmo]

5 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Certain points in the universe would not be able to sustain life because chemical reactions do not occur under certain circumstances. You cannot get life where everything expect a small handful of elements are solids. If there's no energy in a system you cannot trigger a reaction, no reaction = no life. Take the surface of Pluto for example, it has an average surface temp of 44 kelvin, how many elements are liquid or gaseous at that temperature? Oxygen? Nope FP of around 55K, Nitrogen? 63K. The only elements that aren't frozen solid are Hydrogen, Helium and Neon. So hydrogen and 2 inert elements in an environment with no energy to trigger reactions. Definitely a great chance of life there. Maybe there's a chance inside somewhere like Pluto in a liquid layer under the surface but that would depend on the composition, pressure and temperature of that layer, but my point was mainly about the temperature of areas making some places inhabitable and now I'm getting side-tracked. 

Ok. You still haven't told me what your point is. That's like going on a long rant saying life can't live in lava. Ok, sure. There's still the rest of the planet.

5 hours ago, whm1974 said:

I think those exoplanets are merely in their Star's Habitable Zone. You know where water can exist in it's liquid state. Life may or may not have arose there or are microscopic.

No, they used more metrics than that. They actually went away from the typical "has to exactly match earth" model, which really keeps planets that could be better than earth out of the picture.

[DildorTheDecent]

Aliens. I don't want to be probed.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

No, they used more metrics than that. They actually went away from the typical "has to exactly match earth" model, which really keeps planets that could be better than earth out of the picture.

Given the existence of Extremephiles  I'm fairly sure that there are many planets where Life exist but Humans will find it hard to live on...

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

Ok. You still haven't told me what your point is. That's like going on a long rant saying life can't live in lava. Ok, sure. There's still the rest of the planet.

But a lot of planets are just frozen wastelands. You need conditions where liquid and gaseous molecules with covalent bands can form and are stable. If the temperature is too high or low on a planet then life cannot exist. If the gravitational field is too low no atmosphere can form so all gaseous components fly into space and no heat can be trapped on the planets surface.

 

I have outlined my point in detail if you cannot see it that's your problem.

[dalekphalm]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:48 AM, Praesi said:

Billions of Galaxies, with Billions of Systems, with Billions and Billions and Billions of Planets. Spread across the known Universe which is 92.000.000.000 Lightsyears big. Dont fool yourself.

What...?

 

Your logic is backwards. 
 

Billions of planets spread out across the galaxy alone. We don’t need to be able to travel 92 billion light years when in our portion of the galaxy there are numerous candidate planets already.

 

The odds that at least one other planet in our galaxy has life is very high. The odds that at least one planet has intelligent life in the galaxy is still somewhat high (timing is more important here since having two intelligent civilizations at the same moment is less high). 
 

However the odds of a planet that can support human life is frankly very high - and odds are at least one exists in relatively close terms. 
 

Dozens or hundreds of light years away - not billions. 
 

Even at hundreds of light years, humanity could likely already build a generational ship that could reach there with current tech. 
 

Give us another 500 years and generational or even long haul non-generational space craft will likely be commonplace. 

On 10/11/2020 at 2:32 AM, Praesi said:

I dont think you realise how big the Universe is.

That argument literally makes no sense. 

19 hours ago, Praesi said:

I meant the Universe. But it doesnt matter. Our Galaxy alone is too big. I know People like the Idea. I do too. But its nothing but wishful thinking.

It’s not wishful thinking because your argument that the galaxy is “too big” doesn’t offer anything valid. 
 

Too big for what? Humanity to explore the entire thing? Maybe. But that’s not required for humanity to reach other planets. 
 

There is no need for us to explore the whole galaxy to start colonizing it (or find intelligent life). 

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

But a lot of planets are just frozen wastelands. You need conditions where liquid and gaseous molecules with covalent bands can form and are stable. If the temperature is too high or low on a planet then life cannot exist. If the gravitational field is too low no atmosphere can form so all gaseous components fly into space and no heat can be trapped on the planets surface.

Yes but not every exoplanet is a frozen wasteland. There are already dozens (if not hundreds) of exoplanets that exist where water would be liquid - thus capable of supporting life. 

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

I have outlined my point in detail if you cannot see it that's your problem.

You haven’t done a good job here. You’re giving excuses but poor ones. 
 

In the next decade or so, we are going to learn a lot more about the specific details of these exoplanets, due to some new satellites going up. 

[Praesi]

5 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

What...?

 

Your logic is backwards. 
 

Billions of planets spread out across the galaxy alone. We don’t need to be able to travel 92 billion light years when in our portion of the galaxy there are numerous candidate planets already.

 

The odds that at least one other planet in our galaxy has life is very high. The odds that at least one planet has intelligent life in the galaxy is still somewhat high (timing is more important here since having two intelligent civilizations at the same moment is less high). 
 

However the odds of a planet that can support human life is frankly very high - and odds are at least one exists in relatively close terms. 
 

Dozens or hundreds of light years away - not billions. 
 

Even at hundreds of light years, humanity could likely already build a generational ship that could reach there with current tech. 
 

Give us another 500 years and generational or even long haul non-generational space craft will likely be commonplace. 

That argument literally makes no sense. 

It’s not wishful thinking because your argument that the galaxy is “too big” doesn’t offer anything valid. 
 

Too big for what? Humanity to explore the entire thing? Maybe. But that’s not required for humanity to reach other planets. 
 

There is no need for us to explore the whole galaxy to start colonizing it (or find intelligent life). 

Yes but not every exoplanet is a frozen wasteland. There are already dozens (if not hundreds) of exoplanets that exist where water would be liquid - thus capable of supporting life. 

You haven’t done a good job here. You’re giving excuses but poor ones. 
 

In the next decade or so, we are going to learn a lot more about the specific details of these exoplanets, due to some new satellites going up. 

You have Dreams. Thats good. Has nothing to do with reality though. 

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, Praesi said:

You have Dreams. Thats good. Has nothing to do with reality though. 

You have yet to establish that. 
 

The science is clear. Planets are ridiculously common in our galaxy. Way more common than most people suspected. 
 

Also, turns out multi-planet systems are also very common. 
 

Also also turns out that a lot of those planets are in the habitable zone. 
 

I reject your reality (since it’s not based on any science) and substitute my own. 
 

Not only will humans easily explore other nearby solar systems within the next 500 years, we will have colonies on other planets eventually too. 
 

And the odds of encountering life on other planets is not insignificant (though that life will likely not include intelligent sentient societies in the short term). 

[Praesi]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I reject your reality (since it’s not based on any science) and substitute my own. 

Thats fine. 

A dozen Planets within 50 Lightyears in a Universe with 200 Billion Galaxies is all but "most likely" to me.

Humans can barely reach Orbit, let alone achieve something like lightspeed and the tech to protect a ship.

Your Reality is nothing but Sience Fiction at this Point.