Which is Scarier? Aliens or No Aliens

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 minute ago, mahyar said:

iran

 

You probably have indeed studied quite a bit more about Alexander and company than we do  

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, mahyar said:

first that dark age was only in europe and america second WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE IT 

Does it matter? This entire thread is speculation. You might want to calm down before you pop an artery.

[mahyar]

Just now, Donut417 said:

Does it matter? This entire thread is speculation. You might want to calm down before you pop an artery.

im also saying this brother

[mahyar]

3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

You probably have indeed studied quite a bit more about Alexander and company than we do  

yeah damaged he done here were very severe and ultimately persian took his remains down

[Praesi]

Im sure other Life exists. The Universe is so big, no Human can understand the size of it.

If we assume that the Physik Laws we know are the only real truth, we will never visit them. And they will never visit us.

Unless wormholes become a controlable Truth and even than the chances are pretty much non existing.

[Fatih19]

Aight, just don't be like this. @SpaceGhostC2C

On 10/2/2020 at 2:05 PM, Fatih19 said:

I'm more concerned with people who NEED us to not be alone so badly to avoid having an existential crisis.

[divito]

Aliens or not, the scariest thing to me is the ceasing of my consciousness. Straight panic attack, illogical or not.

[dalekphalm]

On 10/2/2020 at 2:24 AM, SansVarnic said:

NASA has already admitted that UFO's are real soooo....

Yes, but by very definition, UFO stands for unidentified flying object. UFO doesn't mean aliens. It means the observer simply doesn't know what it is.

 

Now, with that in mind - especially regarding the confirmed Navy UFO video footage (both US and other) - I 100% believe that aliens exist in the universe. Even in our galaxy, it's incredibly unlikely that there are no other aliens.

 

I think that a universe with only human life is far scarier than aliens.

[dalekphalm]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:57 PM, Bad5ector said:

Do you really want to get into it?

 

Basically I find it deeply depressing that if we actually get off this rock, and explore and see other planets and try to save the human race. In the end it won't matter. It will all just be over, no matter how smart, rich, famous you are... Trying to keep the species alive simply seems unimportant. The universe doesn't give a fuck about us and will eventually just die itself. To me I find that deeply depressing and try not to think about it and just enjoy what little time I have on this plane of existence knowing that in the grand scheme of things nothing really matters.

 

And let me be clear, I do not suffer from any form of depression (unless you count hating Monday's)... this is just something that will pop into my head some random night before sleep and that's that. You're right, I'll be long dead by then, back to the darkness from which I came so to speak but I still feel some sort of unexplained hopelessness when I really start to think about it. I never said it was rational... but hey, that's life for ya.

Personally I suspect there is some kind of mechanism that will either reset the universe, or spawn new ones. The universe (Big Bang, and all) started - to think it will just end and 

12 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Remember we had 800 years where science was set back, aka the Dark Ages. So..... they could be way ahead of us. 

The "Dark Age set humanity back" argument is highly debated as it is - and even if it did happen (and it was pretty much exclusively a Europe problem - The Middle East was advancing significantly during the same time), saying it was 800 years long is also dubious.

 

At best, one could argue that Europe was technologically slowed down by about 300 years.

 

Hell, the early middle ages were a massive agricultural boom in terms of expansion and innovation.

 

Would we be a space fairing multi-planetary civilization, having already colonized the Moon and maybe Mars, if not for the middle ages? Yes, if you're Stargate SG-1. But in reality? Probably not.

 

Though it's certainly possible. Even small changes in history can have catastrophically different results.

[divito]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Personally I suspect there is some kind of mechanism that will either reset the universe, or spawn new ones. The universe (Big Bang, and all) started - to think it will just end and 

The Last Question by Asimov is such an elegant explanation that I'd love for it to occur. Should we ever become that advanced.

[dalekphalm]

13 minutes ago, divito said:

The Last Question by Asimov is such an elegant explanation that I'd love for it to occur. Should we ever become that advanced.

It's an interesting idea - I never read the short story, but from my understanding, it's also kind of a cheat. Asimov doesn't really explain how AC (the "ultimate" computer) is able to essentially cause a new big bang (unless I missed where this was explained).

[divito]

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

It's an interesting idea - I never read the short story, but from my understanding, it's also kind of a cheat. Asimov doesn't really explain how AC (the "ultimate" computer) is able to essentially cause a new big bang (unless I missed where this was explained).

This is the paraphrased version from Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, but:

Spoiler

"The story begins in the year 2061, when a colossal computer has solved the earth's energy problems by designing a massive solar satellite in space that can beam the sun's energy back to earth. The AC (analog computer) is so large and advanced that its technicians have only the vaguest idea of how it operates. On a $5 bet, two drunken technicians ask the computer whether the sun's eventual death can be avoided or, for that matter, whether the universe must inevitably die. After quietly mulling over this question, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINFUL ANSWER.

Centuries into the future, the AC has solved the problem of hyper-space travel, and humans begin colonizing thousands of star systems. The AC is so large that is occupies several hundred square miles on each planet and so complex that it maintains and services itself. A young family is rocketing through hyperspace, unerringly guided by the AC, in search of a new star system to colonize. When the father casually mentions that the stars must eventually die, the children become hysterical. "Don't let the stars die," plead the children. To calm the children, he asks the AC if entropy can be reversed. "See," reassures the father, reading the AC's response, the AC can solve everything. He comforts them by saying, "It will take care of everything when the time comes, so don't worry." He never tells the children that the AC actually prints out: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Thousands of years into the future, the Galaxy itself has been colonized. The AC has solved the problem of immortality and harnesses the energy of the Galaxy, but must find new galaxies for colonization. The AC is so complex that it is long past the point where anyone understands how it works. It continually redesigns and improves its own circuits. Two members of the Galactic Council, each hundreds of years old, debate the urgent question of finding new galactic energy sources, and wonder if the universe itself is running down. Can entropy be reversed? they ask. The AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Millions of years into the future, humanity has spread across the uncountable galaxies of the universe. The AC has solved the problem of releasing the mind from the body, and human minds are free to explore the vastness of millions of galaxies, with their bodies safely stored on some long forgotten planet. Two minds accidentally meet each other in outer space, and casually wonder where among the uncountable galaxies humans originated. The AC, which is now so large that most of it has to be housed in hyperspace, responds by instantly transporting them to an obscure galaxy. They are disappointed. The galaxy is so ordinary, like millions of other galaxies, and the original star has long since died. The two minds become anxious because billions of stars in the heavens are slowly meeting the same fate. The two minds ask, can the death of the universe itself be avoided? From hyperspace, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Billions of years into the future, humanity consists of a trillion, trillion, trillion immortal bodies each cared for by automatons. Humanity's collective mind, which is free to roam anywhere in the universe at will, eventually fuses into a single mind, which in turn fuses with the AC itself. It no longer makes sense to ask what the AC is made of, or where in hyperspace it really is. "The universe is dying," thinks Man, collectively. One by one, as the stars and galaxies cease to generate energy, temperatures throughout the universe approach absolute zero. Man desperately asks if the cold and darkness slowly engulfing the galaxies mean its eventual death. From hyperspace, the AC answers: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

When Man asks the AC to collect the necessary data, it responds: I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESSORS HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TIMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT.

A timeless interval passes, and the universe has finally reached its ultimate death. From hyperspace, the AC spends an eternity collecting data and contemplating the final question. At last, the AC discovers the solution, even though there is no longer anyone to give the answer. The AC carefully formulates a program, and then begins the process of reversing Chaos. It collects cold, interstellar gas, brings together the dead stars, until a gigantic ball is created.

Then when the labors are done, from hyperspace the AC thunders: LET THERE BE LIGHT!

And then there was light-

And on the seventh day, He rested."

But yes, still kind of a cheat. The actual mechanisms obviously aren't revealed. Suffice to say, if there is such a creation as an AC, I'm sure there is some way to collect the gas, stars and recreate a singularity. One can hope.

[straight_stewie]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:21 AM, UnfinishedBizz said:

There have been discussions in the past on whether or not it's troubling to think that there may be no aliens vs aliens in the universe. Odds are there should be aliens in the universe (Drake Equation) but I think it would be creepy if we really are the only ones out here.

I think that both are scary.

I think that alien contact (with the ability to travel to our planet) right now is extremely scary. I am personally scared of that idea. But more than that, I don't think that overall, we could treat them correctly enough to build a positive relationship.

 

But, it's also scary to think that we might never be advanced enough to handle first contact.

[Bombastinator]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:24 AM, SansVarnic said:

NASA has already admitted that UFO's are real soooo....

Which points to nothing. UFO stands for “Unidentified Flying Object” All that says is “there are limits to our capacity to observe and identify”

[Bombastinator]

I think no aliens is scarier.  It points to biblical accuracy, and the Bible gets kind of dark at the end.

[piratemonkey]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I think no aliens is scarier.  It points to biblical accuracy, and the Bible gets kind of dark at the end.

And weird. Really fucking weird. 

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

And weird. Really fucking weird. 

Yeah.  Hard for it to be anything else though.   I’m remembering that revelations was the related memories of a geriatric Shepard who spoke only Aramaic of a conversation he had as a teen.  Kind of hard to relay complex concepts to a totally uneducated speaker of one of the most vague and limited languages ever used. 

[piratemonkey]

20 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Yeah.  Hard for it to be anything else though.   I’m remembering that revelations was the related memories of a geriatric Shepard who spoke only Aramaic of a conversation he had as a teen.  Kind of hard to relay complex concepts to a totally uneducated speaker of one of the most vague and limited languages ever used. 

I thought revelations was a dream some John had

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

I thought revelations was a dream some John had

Hmm.  
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

says that the writer was named John, and it was done some years after the crusifixion of Jesus. 
 

There appears to be little agreement as to who “John” was according to Wikipedia.  I got my description from a biblical scholar who spoke in a documentary in the 90’s.  It might be one extreme as to possibilities.  He seemed pretty sure, but that may not mean much. 

[Guest]

There are aliens, but statistically they are probably some dumb plant or f**cling bacteria.

[Gix7Fifty]

What scarier is dark energy and it's effect on our expanding universe.

[whm1974]

I think it is very unlikely that Planet Earth is the only place in the Universe where Life arose. And come to think of it, it is also an extremely low possibility that Humans are the only Technological Species around in the entire Cosmos...

 

 

[Ya_Mi]

If those aliens able to do intergalactic space travel and somehow find us, why would they be interested in us?

We human are a horrible being, we kill each other for resources, create differences through religion/caste/etc and kill each other in the name of those things instead of trying to unite together and increase the survival chance of our species or try to become type II or even type III civilization.

If alien able to find us, that means they are way more advance than us. People like stephen hawking with his knowledge in science could be just an average elementary student to them, hell...we could be just ants.

 

I'd prefer we find them first and not the other way around and i am sure there are aliens out there, but we just don't know what kind of being they are and i don't see the reason on why i should feel creepy even if we are alone in the universe. I am more concerned about what happened before the big bang or what caused the big bang because it'll likely answer everything.

[Loote]

I secretly hope aliens come and fix the shit that's going on purely because they're nice.

Neither aliens or no aliens are scary, I believe there is life, some of it much smarter than us, but at the same time I don't think we're going to meet any sort of alien. I'm expecting civilisations that start, prosper, but eventually their planet becomes inhabitable which they can't stop or fix and at some point they die out because of it.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, divito said:

This is the paraphrased version from Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, but:

  Hide contents

"The story begins in the year 2061, when a colossal computer has solved the earth's energy problems by designing a massive solar satellite in space that can beam the sun's energy back to earth. The AC (analog computer) is so large and advanced that its technicians have only the vaguest idea of how it operates. On a $5 bet, two drunken technicians ask the computer whether the sun's eventual death can be avoided or, for that matter, whether the universe must inevitably die. After quietly mulling over this question, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINFUL ANSWER.

Centuries into the future, the AC has solved the problem of hyper-space travel, and humans begin colonizing thousands of star systems. The AC is so large that is occupies several hundred square miles on each planet and so complex that it maintains and services itself. A young family is rocketing through hyperspace, unerringly guided by the AC, in search of a new star system to colonize. When the father casually mentions that the stars must eventually die, the children become hysterical. "Don't let the stars die," plead the children. To calm the children, he asks the AC if entropy can be reversed. "See," reassures the father, reading the AC's response, the AC can solve everything. He comforts them by saying, "It will take care of everything when the time comes, so don't worry." He never tells the children that the AC actually prints out: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Thousands of years into the future, the Galaxy itself has been colonized. The AC has solved the problem of immortality and harnesses the energy of the Galaxy, but must find new galaxies for colonization. The AC is so complex that it is long past the point where anyone understands how it works. It continually redesigns and improves its own circuits. Two members of the Galactic Council, each hundreds of years old, debate the urgent question of finding new galactic energy sources, and wonder if the universe itself is running down. Can entropy be reversed? they ask. The AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Millions of years into the future, humanity has spread across the uncountable galaxies of the universe. The AC has solved the problem of releasing the mind from the body, and human minds are free to explore the vastness of millions of galaxies, with their bodies safely stored on some long forgotten planet. Two minds accidentally meet each other in outer space, and casually wonder where among the uncountable galaxies humans originated. The AC, which is now so large that most of it has to be housed in hyperspace, responds by instantly transporting them to an obscure galaxy. They are disappointed. The galaxy is so ordinary, like millions of other galaxies, and the original star has long since died. The two minds become anxious because billions of stars in the heavens are slowly meeting the same fate. The two minds ask, can the death of the universe itself be avoided? From hyperspace, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

Billions of years into the future, humanity consists of a trillion, trillion, trillion immortal bodies each cared for by automatons. Humanity's collective mind, which is free to roam anywhere in the universe at will, eventually fuses into a single mind, which in turn fuses with the AC itself. It no longer makes sense to ask what the AC is made of, or where in hyperspace it really is. "The universe is dying," thinks Man, collectively. One by one, as the stars and galaxies cease to generate energy, temperatures throughout the universe approach absolute zero. Man desperately asks if the cold and darkness slowly engulfing the galaxies mean its eventual death. From hyperspace, the AC answers: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

When Man asks the AC to collect the necessary data, it responds: I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESSORS HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TIMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT.

A timeless interval passes, and the universe has finally reached its ultimate death. From hyperspace, the AC spends an eternity collecting data and contemplating the final question. At last, the AC discovers the solution, even though there is no longer anyone to give the answer. The AC carefully formulates a program, and then begins the process of reversing Chaos. It collects cold, interstellar gas, brings together the dead stars, until a gigantic ball is created.

Then when the labors are done, from hyperspace the AC thunders: LET THERE BE LIGHT!

And then there was light-

And on the seventh day, He rested."

But yes, still kind of a cheat. The actual mechanisms obviously aren't revealed. Suffice to say, if there is such a creation as an AC, I'm sure there is some way to collect the gas, stars and recreate a singularity. One can hope.

So the basic concept is that the AI "AC" collects all of the cold stellar gas that is the remains of the universe (presumably they'd also collect dead stars, neutron stars, asteroids, dead worlds, etc). This matter is then collected into a single giant ball - a ball presumably so large that it reacts with physics in a manner we're not expecting (far larger than any star - even any black hole could be) - and this somehow kickstarts the big bang.

 

Or AC itself is somehow manipulating the matter with energy of some kind or a machine of some kind.

 

The big question is how is AC powering itself? If the heat death of the universe has happened, that likely means there's not a lot of fuel to be used, as most elements would have been burned up and fused into heavier elements in stars over the eons.