Which is Scarier? Aliens or No Aliens

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, Praesi said:

Thats fine. 

A dozen Planets within 50 Lightyears in a Universe with 200 Billion Galaxies is all but "most likely" to me.

Humans can barely reach Orbit, let alone achieve something like lightspeed and the tech to protect a ship.

Your Reality is nothing but Sience Fiction at this Point.

I think We found more then a mere dozen planets a lot closer then 50 Lightyears. And his Reality sounds like Hard Science Fiction and not soft...

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

What...?

 

Your logic is backwards. 
 

Billions of planets spread out across the galaxy alone. We don’t need to be able to travel 92 billion light years when in our portion of the galaxy there are numerous candidate planets already.

 

The odds that at least one other planet in our galaxy has life is very high. The odds that at least one planet has intelligent life in the galaxy is still somewhat high (timing is more important here since having two intelligent civilizations at the same moment is less high). 
 

However the odds of a planet that can support human life is frankly very high - and odds are at least one exists in relatively close terms. 
 

Dozens or hundreds of light years away - not billions. 
 

Even at hundreds of light years, humanity could likely already build a generational ship that could reach there with current tech. 
 

Give us another 500 years and generational or even long haul non-generational space craft will likely be commonplace. 

That argument literally makes no sense. 

It’s not wishful thinking because your argument that the galaxy is “too big” doesn’t offer anything valid. 
 

Too big for what? Humanity to explore the entire thing? Maybe. But that’s not required for humanity to reach other planets. 
 

There is no need for us to explore the whole galaxy to start colonizing it (or find intelligent life). 

I think you're vastly underestimating the scale of things. We aren't getting close to lightspeed, nowhere near. So the journey of hundreds of lightyears would take centuries. centuries where he ship would have to hold up, a constant food source would be required and the gene pool wouldn't have turned into Alabama after a few generations. 

 

BTW the fastest manmade object ever would be the parker solar probe which with the help of the suns gravity will reach a speed of 0.06% of speed of light. At that speed (which wouldn't be attainable for the journey) the time taken to get to the closest star would be 70 years. You also wouldn't be able to communicate with earth in a timely manner. 

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Yes but not every exoplanet is a frozen wasteland. There are already dozens (if not hundreds) of exoplanets that exist where water would be liquid - thus capable of supporting life. 

You haven’t done a good job here. You’re giving excuses but poor ones. 
 

In the next decade or so, we are going to learn a lot more about the specific details of these exoplanets, due to some new satellites going up. 

My argument was that not everywhere can support life. I think the reason of the only elements that aren't solids would be H, He and Ne is a fairly good one.

[Derkoli]

On 10/6/2020 at 8:25 AM, Ya_Mi said:

If those aliens able to do intergalactic space travel and somehow find us, why would they be interested in us?

We human are a horrible being, we kill each other for resources, create differences through religion/caste/etc and kill each other in the name of those things instead of trying to unite together and increase the survival chance of our species or try to become type II or even type III civilization.

If alien able to find us, that means they are way more advance than us. People like stephen hawking with his knowledge in science could be just an average elementary student to them, hell...we could be just ants.

 

I'd prefer we find them first and not the other way around and i am sure there are aliens out there, but we just don't know what kind of being they are and i don't see the reason on why i should feel creepy even if we are alone in the universe. I am more concerned about what happened before the big bang or what caused the big bang because it'll likely answer everything.

I have a funny feeling that if Aliens were to observe/contact us, they would fuck off back to whatever planet they came from after they saw everything negative our species does.

 

Personally, I think it's a much, much scarier scenario if we were truly alone.

 

However, I believe we are not alone. We've already found planets with a high chance of being habitable. And we haven't searched huge distances in astronomical terms.

[whm1974]

13 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I think you're vastly underestimating the scale of things. We aren't getting close to lightspeed, nowhere near. So the journey of hundreds of lightyears would take centuries. centuries where he ship would have to hold up, a constant food source would be required and the gene pool wouldn't have turned into Alabama after a few generations. 

 

BTW the fastest manmade object ever would be the parker solar probe which with the help of the suns gravity will reach a speed of 0.06% of speed of light. At that speed (which wouldn't be attainable for the journey) the time taken to get to the closest star would be 70 years. You also wouldn't be able to communicate with earth in a timely manner. 

My argument was that not everywhere can support life. I think the reason of the only elements that aren't solids would be H, He and Ne is a fairly good one.

By the time We Humans start sending out Spacecraft with people on them, they will be going faster then .06 of Light. Most likely faster probes will be sent there first. Also information at FTL would be possibly developed first, and far easier and faster to send back to Earth then Large Ships traveling there to other Planets anyway.

[Lord Vile]

57 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

By the time We Humans start sending out Spacecraft with people on them, they will be going faster then .06 of Light. Most likely faster probes will be sent there first. Also information at FTL would be possibly developed first, and far easier and faster to send back to Earth then Large Ships traveling there to other Planets anyway.

Do you not understand physics? It is projected to get 0.06% the SoL USING THE GRAVITY OF THE SUN! How in hell are you expecting us to develop a propulsion technology that gets us anywhere near the amount of energy that provides? We can barely power cities as it is. ITER won't achieve first plasma till 2025 or be fully testing until 2035 and that started in 1988.

 

Also Faster than light isn't a thing, we send communication via radio waves (which are EM waves therefore travel at the speed of light) the only thing that is theoretically faster than light are tachyons which may or may not exists and even if they did you couldn't communicate using them because you'd be sending information back in time and is therefore impossible. (As time essentially ceases to exist at light speed due to relativity)

[whm1974]

29 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Do you not understand physics? It is projected to get 0.06% the SoL USING THE GRAVITY OF THE SUN! How in hell are you expecting us to develop a propulsion technology that gets us anywhere near the amount of energy that provides? We can barely power cities as it is. ITER won't achieve first plasma till 2025 or be fully testing until 2035 and that started in 1988.

 

Also Faster than light isn't a thing, we send communication via radio waves (which are EM waves therefore travel at the speed of light) the only thing that is theoretically faster than light are tachyons which may or may not exists and even if they did you couldn't communicate using them because you'd be sending information back in time and is therefore impossible. (As time essentially ceases to exist at light speed due to relativity)

Dude, it wasn't that long ago in Human History that We couldn't even send rockets up in Space... Give Us another ~100 Years....

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Dude, it wasn't that long ago in Human History that We couldn't even send rockets up in Space... Give Us another ~100 Years....

I would very much like human society to have another hundred years.  I’m not at all sure it will get it but I’d like for it to happen.  

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

I would very much like human society to have another hundred years.  I’m not at all sure it will get it but I’d like for it to happen.  

Why wouldn't Human Societies have another 100 years or even longer?

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Why wouldn't Human Societies have another 100 years or even longer?

Have you looked outside lately?  
 

I remember winters in the Midwest US.  I used to be able to spit and have it crackle when it hit the ground.  When I was a kid once i took out the trash and it was -98°f with windchill.  Right now it’s mid October and I’m lying on my bed bare-ass-nekkid with a fan on.   The is while “series of storms hitting Florida and the US coast” thing? That didn’t used to happen.  One or 2 maybe.  Total.  Not fricken 6.  That’s less than 50 years.  Global warming is moving so fast I can SEE it.  Only just barely.  But I’m just a human. 

[whm1974]

25 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Have you looked outside lately?  
 

I remember winters in the Midwest US.  I used to be able to spit and have it crackle when it hit the ground.  When I was a kid once i took out the trash and it was -98°f with windchill.  Right now it’s mid October and I’m lying on my bed bare-ass-nekkid with a fan on.   The is while “series of storms hitting Florida and the US coast” thing? That didn’t used to happen.  One or 2 maybe.  Total.  Not fricken 6.  That’s less than 50 years.  Global warming is moving so fast I can SEE it.  Only just barely.  But I’m just a human. 

Humanity has already survived Near Extinction Events, and We have far greater numbers and are more widespread then We were way back then.

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Humanity has already survived Near Extinction Events, and We have far greater numbers and are more widespread then We were way back then.

Human society didnt.  Roman Empire proved that one.  Both in its rise and its fall.

[whm1974]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Human society didnt.  Roman Empire proved that one.  Both in its rise and its fall.

I'm speaking of our Species not a particular society. 

[Praesi]

3 hours ago, whm1974 said:

I think We found more then a mere dozen planets a lot closer then 50 Lightyears. And his Reality sounds like Hard Science Fiction and not soft...

 Its a dozen planets that wouldnt burn or freeze you to death within a milli second.

[dizmo]

4 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

But a lot of planets are just frozen wastelands. You need conditions where liquid and gaseous molecules with covalent bands can form and are stable. If the temperature is too high or low on a planet then life cannot exist. If the gravitational field is too low no atmosphere can form so all gaseous components fly into space and no heat can be trapped on the planets surface.

 

I have outlined my point in detail if you cannot see it that's your problem.

Correct.

They've found 24 superhabitable planets out of a pool of 4,500. If you extrapolate that, you'd have roughly 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 superhabitable planets in the universe. Yes, there are way, way more planets that don't fit the criteria, but that doesn't mean there's hardly any habitable planets. Not only that, we know next to nothing about space. We're constantly finding out that what we "know" is wrong, not right, and that there are many more habitable planets, and much greater chance of life than we've previously believed.

[Bombastinator]

46 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

I'm speaking of our Species not a particular society. 

And I was talking about civilization.  Of which there is more or less one at the moment.  Topic of that moment was about scientific advancement.  We’re still finding new Roman era tech stuff.  There was not too long ago a thing about low pressure water pipes working best filled with 1/3rd air we flat out did not know until we started exploring some old Roman stuff.  We were already deep into use it or lose it tech with the apollo program.  There’s stuff they did we can’t build anymore.  You know how TSMC did 7nm?  Intel apparently doesn’t. 

[whm1974]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

And I was talking about civilization.  Of which there is more or less one at the moment.  Topic of that moment was about scientific advancement.  We’re still finding new Roman era tech stuff.  There was not too long ago a thing about low pressure water pipes working best filled with 1/3rd air we flat out did not know until we started exploring some old Roman stuff.  We were already deep into use it or lose it tech with the apollo program.  There’s stuff they did we can’t build anymore.

Stuff like well built Roads? We could but that will be very expensive to do.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, whm1974 said:

Stuff like well built Roads? We could but that will be very expensive to do.

I think with the Apollo program is was something to do with rocket nozzles and steel technology.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

I think with the Apollo program is was something to do with rocket nozzles and steel technology.

We can redevelop the Apollo Program if We wanted to. The US Government totally lacks the Political Will to continue where The Moon Landing was left off at. 

[WereCatf]

I'm not afraid of aliens or lack of aliens. What's a lot, lot more disturbing than either of those options is humans. Fuck, those are some messed up creatures!

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

We can redevelop the Apollo Program if We wanted to. The US Government totally lacks the Political Will to continue where The Moon Landing was left off at. 

No, we can develop tech that performs the same end goal.  That’s not the same thing.  Some of that 60’s Apollo stuff is literally artifact level.  We don’t know why it works.

 

i think I recall an Adam savage video where he goes into only some of the stuff in just the Apollo capsule at the smithsonian that was this way. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Bombastinator

[Bombastinator]

15 minutes ago, WereCatf said:

I'm not afraid of aliens or lack of aliens. What's a lot, lot more disturbing than either of those options is humans. Fuck, those are some messed up creatures!

Humans suck.  The Bible goes on at some length about this. 

[whm1974]

10 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Humans suck.  The Bible goes on at some length about this. 

Modern Humans are a lot more developed both Culturally and Morally then We were from way back then.

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Modern Humans are a lot more developed both Culturally and Morally then We were from way back then.

There are writings from back then.  Who was it who said “we stand upon the shoulders of giants”?  I have yet to see a shred of evidence that humans are smarter now, not more educated, smarter, there’s a difference, than in 4000bc.

[whm1974]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

There are writings from back then.  Who was it who said “we stand upon the shoulders of giants”?  I have yet to see a shred of evidence that humans are smarter now, not more educated, smarter, there’s a difference, than in 4000bc.

That was Newton.  

[Praesi]

34 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Humans suck.  The Bible goes on at some length about this. 

And what has a Book of Fairytales to do with the Topic?