Why are Mods making this forum Ask Jeeves?

[SansVarnic]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

idk sometimes i post something wanting a discussion and i get told to move it to status update where like at most 2 or so people respond to it

 

It happens from time to time, unfortunately. You do have the right to repeal a moderator's actions as mentioned by @Spotty. Just pm that moderator or report the lock and ask for it to be re-reviewed. I know I have unlocked topics in the past that were conversation evoking or asking for feedback and was mistaken as something else.

Moderators are not perfect and we do sometimes mistaken things. 

 

If we see a topic that was just a thought and no feedback was asked for or the comment was not engaging it is seen as not topic material. But if the OP feels otherwise we can unlock the topic and the OP can make alterations to the topic to evoke the intended conversation. I know I have done this before once or twice before I became a Mod.

[Sauron]

12 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

At this time, we cannot move Status Update material to an OPs profile page and we generally don't want to hide or remove a topic/comment that doesn't need removing and an OP can repost anything marked as Status on their profile page and let us know they did as much and we can then remove the topic.

Perhaps one solution would be moving it to off-topic (if you don't already do that) to keep clutter away from more "important" subforums

[SansVarnic]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Perhaps one solution would be moving it to off-topic (if you don't already do that) to keep clutter away from more "important" subforums

Sometimes we do. Honestly this falls on the individual Mod or how busy we are.

But that is a good point.

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Perhaps one solution would be moving it to off-topic (if you don't already do that) to keep clutter away from more "important" subforums

well i posted them in off topic LUL

[Sauron]

6 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

well i posted them in off topic LUL

but then they're not clutter

[Spotty]

Just now, BlueScope819 said:

To avoid clutter is it possible to allow users to delete posts? For example, I have a post in Test Posts that I don't need any more because I no longer have the part that I'm trying to sell, and it is annoying every time I scroll down and see it.

No, it's not possible for users to delete their own posts.

Quote

Allow members to delete or lock their own posts
If you would like something to be removed, please report it, and it will be removed by a moderator. However, a significant number of the deletion requests that we get are because the topic is solved, which is not a valid reason for deletion - by leaving the topic, it can help other people in the future.

 

[Moonzy]

1 minute ago, BlueScope819 said:

To avoid clutter is it possible to allow users to delete posts? For example, I have a post in Test Posts that I don't need any more because I no longer have the part that I'm trying to sell, and it is annoying every time I scroll down and see it.

i think the procedure on this forum is to request it to be deleted

[Red :)]

3 hours ago, gloop said:

That's what off-topic is for.

 

Ever read the 'Moderators on the Forum' thread? Or the 'Banning Game'? Or the 'Corrupt a Wish'? Those are all thread whose sole purpose are a bit of a laugh.

or the meme thread

[SansVarnic]

1 hour ago, Hakemon said:

Those examples are specific targeted type threads though.  It's repetition and it gets tiring.

Nothing against the people here, the staff, or LMG, I just honestly feel bored with the forum a lot of times because of what's being discussed here.  I understand you have some options here, but they don't "click" so to speak for me as well as others apparently.

Unless there's some changes, I might end up leaving.  Like I said, nothing against anyone, it's just that my personality doesn't fit right with the way things are done here is all.  I have diagnosed ASD, anyone with it will probably understand what I mean.  (We're all different but I'm sure someone might understand what I'm trying to say, hopefully or I really am the odd duck out).

 

Not deleting the account, not like I don't want to try and come back, but as you see in my post history, only 400 things in 2 years.

Nothing wrong with that. I take time off from the forums from time to time, it gets to be too much sometimes or just plain boring. But that happens. Shoot I may have 7500 post count now but that is only half or so of my actual post count since that count does not include Status' or Off topic posts. My post count sky-rocketed after becoming a Mod. I was similar to you somewhat, I posted on the occasion.

 

You don't have to be engaging all the time and I am not making a case for you to stay just giving some comparison to think about. Not all discussion will be of interest. Honestly, I don't take in too much discussion myself hardly anymore. Probably 2500 of my posts have been towards moderation of sorts. I do give help where I can of course and I do engage in a few discussions here and there, more recently I have been attempting to be more engaging as the last 2 years I have been sparse in my attendance due to work.

 

1 hour ago, BlueScope819 said:

To avoid clutter is it possible to allow users to delete posts? For example, I have a post in Test Posts that I don't need any more because I no longer have the part that I'm trying to sell, and it is annoying every time I scroll down and see it.

As @Spotty said and linked, members are not allowed to do this. @colonel_mortis explains it pretty well why this is.

As in other forums we stand out from those in how we handle etiquette, this forum is not for everyone but it is IMO a much better forum layout than others such as reddit, tom's hardware, or AnandTech forum design. Granted they do work for some.

 

If you no longer need the topic, report it and ask for it to be removed, we can do that. You can do this for any comment, post, topic of yours but please bear in mind that we don't delete all topics by request. If a topic has an issue that has been resolved the forum prefers that topic be made available for anyone that may have a similar or same issue.

 

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

i think the procedure on this forum is to request it to be deleted

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Red said:

or the meme thread

Yup

 

[SansVarnic]

10 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

but here's a kicker, my Status updates have also been removed saying its "too divisive" , i have to ask what was the point. 

 

 

Please contact the Mod team directly, via a PM or Submit a Forum Support ticket with the details of which you are asking about and we can get back to you.

This is specific moderation to be discussed with you privately as per the CS. You should have already received some sort of communication if you had items locked, hidden or removed.

Pending on the reasoning this may fall under 'no public discussion of moderation.'

 

 

**Please note that yes, we are discussing Moderation in general in this thread, this is not that same. Discussion about moderation and specific moderative actions taken are separate things.

[LogicalDrm]

As this was sparked by my actions, I think its only fair to hear my reasoning too. While the ruling is not to openly discuss about moderation, here its something that is left open for everyone to see anyway.

 

This is the thread we are talking about:

Its now unlocked and moved to Off Topic. My opinion will stand, and I stand behind it.

 

The reasoning for locking it was two-fold. One, it was dumped in General Discussion when it hardly has tech-relation. The question is not about why motherboards have those ports, or why features are or are not listed in specs. Its about why all stores use same image with typo. Talking about stores and how they conduct their business is not tech related, imo. The second reason is that posting random findings about typos, mistakes, be it in videos or pricing or something else, is not very interesting. Granted, here there was some discussion to be had, and thats only reason why its re-opened now.

 

This discussion is good to be had. Maybe changes are to be made too. Like instead of locking threads, those with constructive discussion could be moved to Off Topic (or other suitable subforums) and those with non-constructive stuff or otherwise pointless would be quarantined to Test Posts. This is my opinion on the matter, not decision made by staff. The problem has other side, you lot. Just go to General Discussion, page or two from first and look at it. How many threads are left there and open? As of writing this, there are 13 moved threads, 3 locked threads and 3 posts with under 5 replies. Of 25 total. If we have to move/lock more than half of the threads posted in GD daily, I think you can understand why trigger for just locking posts is higher.

 

Now about quality of posts. Posting single pics, videos, one-liners, jokes, telling stories of your life trying to get clicks. Thats mainly what we currently lock. So, also in my opinion, stuff that you would post-away to Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, maybe even Reddit and what else is hip with you young people. Stuff trying to get reactions, likes, clicks, comments. I can understand it, somewhat. I've been young 15+ years ago.

 

But I also come from old-school forums. Not place where you would shoot-a-post like that. I have been here from the beginning and then I thought this was that kind of place. With bit more 'laxed rules to keep things in order. Not a place where asking same question everyday would be shot down with aggressive replies. Thats the reason why I have stayed for 7 years. I admit that my tolerance towards lack of research, googling, using search, reading and blatant ignorance towards rules, manners and "professional conduct" has gone down quite a bit. Making me to show my salty sarcasm more than in the past.

 

If the change would be to make this yet another social-media-style platform, I will be leaving. I don't want to be part of that. Not that those couldn't be meaningful, but I already have low tolerance for most of the folks using them. And that style of quickly forgetting crowd is so far from who and what I am.

[dizmo]

Have you gone into the Off Topic section? That sounds a little more like what you're looking for.

If you're just diving into the sub forums at the top, you're right; it's mostly Tech News, and people asking questions. That's also what those sections are for, though.

 

Status updates are there for....Facebook like thoughts. Things that don't really fit into any of the sub forums. The majority of what gets locked doesn't really have much of a point to it. A meme, someone telling you what they had for lunch, or what they dropped onto their keyboard. They can't really keep making new sub forums, as they kind of already have too many. Some things, like just posting a meme, are tricky to regulate. I mean, sure, you could have another sub forum where "anything" goes, but it still has to be moderated (especially since there's a huge number of young users), and that would almost require a couple mods dedicated just to that.

 

The mod team does a pretty good job at moving things that don't belong somewhere quickly, but they're definitely not perfect. Though, as @Spotty pointed out, you can file a report and they'll take another look at it; I've done it only a few times over the years on other peoples posts that I've thought were unjustly closed, and I'd either get a reason (which isn't always set in stone, I've argued it before and they've ended up siding with my view), or it'll be placed somewhere more appropriate or reopened.

 

One thing I've always found odd is how the Off Topic category is handled. You post something in there that might not be entirely tech related, and it can get locked and deleted. Why? Isn't that the entire point of the Off Topic category? For something that's...off topic?

I also hate how you can't unsub from a status update, sometimes the notifications from them are a little insane. But that's an entirely different rant...

 

I get that you're frustrated, but I'd ask you this: What would you change? What are some suggestions you have to improve it?

They're always open to hearing suggestions from the community.

 

5 hours ago, kelvinhall05 said:

It's fine the way it is because if posts didn't get locked for "status update material" I'd see the same bullshit every day. Low effort memes that don't make sense, YouTube videos that aren't funny, etc. Just clogs up the forum and even if it posting "status update material" was allowed in Off Topic, lets be real that wouldn't stay there. Just look at General Discussion, it's basically all moved threads...

 

I think it's fine the way it is.

I mean, to be fair, you already see the same bullshit every day. Builds, and whatever is related to the latest LTT video.

The GD thread is the way it is because it's at the top. You could name it anything, and people would post there because it's first. It's just laziness.

4 hours ago, BlueScope819 said:

See, that's the problem. Instead of moving the threads you get stuff like this. I was enjoying the conversation that my thread sparked about SFF builds, but instead I got this.

 

I think the main problem with your post is that you didn't really ask a question, or say anything that would bring on further discussion. While it had that effect, it could have had a question in it, much like you would in a tech news post. I do find it odd that things like this get locked after people have started replying though.

4 hours ago, Hakemon said:

That's precisely how I went a year not even knowing where they were.  Who in the UI department thought putting it over in the bottom right was a good idea?  It'll be missed far too easily except to those who know it's there already.  I honestly thought last week when I did my first and only status update, I was posting into the wind.

I agree, I think since it's a forum feature, it should be placed right below the new forum posts, above the section with the Discord/Donate links. That could be something @colonel_mortis could look at (I think he deals with that...); while I get they want the video links there to advertise for the business, the forum is kind of a different beast, and you're likely already watching the content, or have no interest in it.

4 hours ago, Loote said:

I saw status updates when first joining the site and thought 'that's a feature I'm never gonna use', reading the op I was under impression that status updates were forbidden and got removed. What's described here might explain why the forum seems stiff to me, but whatever, I'm only here for the news anyway.

Haha, I didn't really use the Status Update feature for my first....5ish years on the forum.

3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

idk sometimes i post something wanting a discussion and i get told to move it to status update where like at most 2 or so people respond to it

Yeah, especially if the status updates are a little busy and your status update gets buried. I, for one, didn't even know until today that there was a way to look at all of the status updates.

3 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

It happens from time to time, unfortunately. You do have the right to repeal a moderator's actions as mentioned by @Spotty. Just pm that moderator or report the lock and ask for it to be re-reviewed. I know I have unlocked topics in the past that were conversation evoking or asking for feedback and was mistaken as something else.

Moderators are not perfect and we do sometimes mistaken things. 

 

If we see a topic that was just a thought and no feedback was asked for or the comment was not engaging it is seen as not topic material. But if the OP feels otherwise we can unlock the topic and the OP can make alterations to the topic to evoke the intended conversation. I know I have done this before once or twice before I became a Mod.

I think one thing that could be improved in regards to that, is the handling of new users. If they get told something is status update material, and their thread gets locked within some of their first few posts, it's a good way to dissuade them from using the forum; especially if they have no idea what a status update is, or how to get to it. Which might be quite common judging the number of people who mentioned it in this thread. I do get that mods are busy dealing with the absolute mess that the GD sub forum is, but maybe taking a minute to look at their post count and point out how to get to status updates might be a bit better.

 

[Beerzerker]

I'll add that one reason I can think of why you can't delete your own posts is that it can wreak havoc on the database if you have alot of that going on - I've seen it happen before TBH.

With traffic volume here it would certainly be a headache if even a small amount of posters by the numbers that pop in on a daily basis did that and would NOT want to be the guy(s) that has to fix all that.

[Tristerin]

7 hours ago, Dravinian said:

This forum isn't so much a community of people who are together to have a laugh, chew the fat, feel like a part of something...but more a place where you can ask and answer questions, and read some tech news.

 

Everything else is apparently a Status Update, which I doubt many people actually read, I am sure I will be contradicted there before the Mods shut this post too, but I haven't read any updates in the months I have been here and I doubt I ever would...why would you read what one person has to say, on a forum that is designed to engage the whole community?  That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

 

Why is this place becoming Stack Overflow rather than a place where people in a community can come together to talk about stuff and have a laugh? - as long as there is some connection to technology, the fundamental base of the community.  If it isn't offensive, if it isn't divisive, then why isn't it allowed as long as it doesn't break the rules?

 

That is the point of a forum, to foster a community.  It isn't meant to be a question and answer place and a news site, there are places for that.

 

If it isn't a community, then I for one, don't really see any point to it.  It seems like a lot of effort spent on not creating something.

A forum can be defined (and is) and I believe this encompasses that definition.  

 

This is also a private forum, owned by a private company - therefore there will be rules, outside of any laws required by individual states.  

 

I find that the community here is easy to follow.  I "Follow" people that I want to engage with daily, or have a wish to see their ideas within the rules of status updates.  

 

A forum isn't to foster a community (foster is defined as well) - at least, this one isn't and I haven't taken it that way.  

 

 

I will say, of the multitude of tech forums Ive belonged to:

 

This one has the largest feeling of a community I have been happy to be apart of.  

 

And that without rules, you get trolls.  Lots and lots of trolls.  Even with the rules I see trolls get banned very often here, and rightly so.

[Beerzerker]

Just now, Tristerin said:

A forum can be defined (and is) and I believe this encompasses that definition.  

 

This is also a private forum, owned by a private company - therefore there will be rules, outside of any laws required by individual states.  

 

I find that the community here is easy to follow.  I "Follow" people that I want to engage with daily, or have a wish to see their ideas within the rules of status updates.  

 

A forum isn't to foster a community (foster is defined as well) - at least, this one isn't and I haven't taken it that way.  

 

 

I will say, of the multitude of tech forums Ive belonged to:

 

This one has the largest feeling of a community I have been happy to be apart of.  

 

And that without rules, you get trolls.  Lots and lots of trolls.  Even with the rules I see trolls get banned very often here, and rightly so.

I've also seen forums described as a "Dictatorship" which in fact is accurate.
Any forum that asks or allows input/suggestions does so because the staff/owners allows it but when you get down to it, what is said in the end goes. What a forum does is not up for a vote unless they want it to be and even then they don't have to act on it that way.

 

I'm glad to see a place like this - Laid back, not too harsh and the staff is easy-going yet at the same time they do what's expected of them. That's how I did when I was a mod, unless it was something that was blatantly out of line I either mentioned it or let it slide but even then it didn't slide but so far - There are limits to everything.

One of my main duties was to the be the Troll Patrol and that never ended well for them along with all the spam getting packed back in the can.

[TetraSky]

2 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

This is the thread we are talking about:

Oh, that's the thread that sparked this whole "discussion" about moderation?

Yeah I remember reporting it for being Status Update material. 

 

Because there was no real discussion to be had and OP was somewhat rude when it was pointed out by another user that they were nitpicking. Saying things like how they should "lighten up" or they are being "a downer about it".

In my opinion, the thread was/is just not a good one for a friendly discourse, when right from the get go, OP got defensive about it and started using words with a negative connotation against others. It's a reactionary thread at best, the kind you'd find on facebook or twitter.

[Tristerin]

2 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

If the change would be to make this yet another social-media-style platform, I will be leaving. I don't want to be part of that. Not that those couldn't be meaningful, but I already have low tolerance for most of the folks using them. And that style of quickly forgetting crowd is so far from who and what I am.

 

[Glenwing]

We started locking things for being "status update material" several years ago. At the time, many people were basically using the public forum sections as their personal Facebook page, with lots of threads where the entire contents of the post was "my new CPU just arrived <picture>" and "I really like how this RAM looks <link>" and "I just ordered this motherboard <link>".

 

The forums are for questions and broader discussions, which are meticulously indexed and saved and discoverable on Google for future people looking for answers or discussions on the same topic. If you just want to make a quick post about something that happened to you, or something you're excited about, and would be cool to share with other people and have a quick discussion and hang out, but you're mainly just interested in some immediate interaction with other people, then yes, status updates or the Discord server is where that goes. And yes, status updates get a much lower volume of views. That was always the case, even when the "status updates in the forums" was still a thing, the only difference is that back then they took up space in the public forums and everyone had to sift through them to find the actual discussions, the ones that people other than the OP can make meaningful contributions to, and now they don't.

[Spotty]

48 minutes ago, dizmo said:

One thing I've always found odd is how the Off Topic category is handled. You post something in there that might not be entirely tech related, and it can get locked and deleted. Why? Isn't that the entire point of the Off Topic category? For something that's...off topic?

The off-topic forum isn't a free-for-all section. The community standards still apply. It's a forum for discussing things that aren't related to technology and that don't fit in to other categories, but we still have the same expectations of posts that would be expected if posted elsewhere.

Please see the Off-Topic Posting Guidelines. Point #2 and #3 particularly applies to this discussion.

Quote

1. First of all, ALL the items of the Community Standards apply to the Off-Topic section.
2. The Off-Topic section is NOT for junk posts, SPAM, trolling and just any old thing.
3. The Off-Topic section IS for productive threads that may not fall into one of the already laid out sections of the forum. At all times though, this is a tech centered and focused forum.

Any posts which are deemed by the mod staff to not meet the rules outlined in the Community Standards or these guidelines might be locked or deleted without warning. If you are found to have violated the core values of the Community Standards via a topic and/or post (attacking another member, vulgar language, racism, etc,) warning points will be assigned.
 

At all time when posting, remember these few key items from the Community Standards :

• "Don't be a dick" - Wil Wheaton.
• "Be excellent to each other" - Bill and Ted.
• Remember your audience; both present and future.
• No excessive/excessively off-topic threads or posts.
• No posting nonsensical messages.
• No "Flooding" the forum with similar meaning messages.
• The posting solely of memes or similar images without contributing to the discussion, memes can be funny and applicable but if it is completely unrelated it is spam.
• Do not create threads for the sole purpose of causing unrest on the forums.
• Do not cause disturbances in forum threads such as picking fights or insulting other members.
• Do not make non-constructive posts for the purpose of causing unrest.  This includes posting LMGTFY links.
• No replying to a thread simply to call the author a troll (regardless of whether the post is actually trolling)

We are working to make this a productive and positive environment for all and the Off-Topic section must maintain these standards.

 

Most of what gets locked/removed in the off-topic section is random meme posts (some that would be better suited to the Linus meme thread, others that are just random garbage), shitposts/trolling, and other similar low quality content.

[Teddy07]

I agree with the mods. They do a good job of keeping the forum clean of pointless crap.

[Glenwing]

1 hour ago, BlueScope819 said:

As you say, everything is indexed and discoverable on Google. I think that means that people won't have to sift though a bunch of junk as long as they use proper search grammar. If the intent is to have everything indexed and searchable, it makes the junk problem nonexistent because no one is even going to be looking at the list of posts sorted by most recent, they will only see what they intend to see, and need. While I do personally think the general discussion section is being overused and people aren't sorting into proper categories, I think that's for the most part limited to new users who just need help, and really, who can blame them. Perhaps it would be a good idea to consider perhaps creating a more lighthearted section, call it what you will, but I agree with @Hakemon on this that we are social creatures and like to socialize, and status updates aren't really a great way to socialize.

Google indexing is only one aspect, there's also the issue of them clogging up the pages as people are just browsing the forums. Keep in mind most of the current policies on the forum (such as the ones in place for the News section, meme/shitposting rules, status update rules) are in response to waves of complaints we had from forum members before the policies were in place. So if there's a rule, it's probably because the forum community itself didn't like how things were before that rule was implemented.

 

I think if people want to just hang out with other tech enthusiasts, the Discord server is a better medium for that than the forums. Forums just aren't really optimal for that, it's like using email for idle back and forth chit chat instead of instant messaging software.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

If clutter is an issue, is it possible to hide these "status update material" threads from public view? Is that something the current forum software supports? Or is it possible to move the post to Test Posts? 

[GDRRiley]

seems like some of you newer users don't really like the forum style and are more after a discord server or social media.

A few of you really like testing the waters on breaking rules.

[Tristerin]

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

seems like some of you newer users don't really like the forum style and are more after a discord server or social media.

A few of you really like testing the waters on breaking rules.

Kind of like how I had to be shown the Community Standards post, which I didn't read when I joined, because I kept violating it at first.  

 

After that, I understood the fence posts, and bounce in between them to stay inline (with once in a while seeing how far I can push that fence post out of bounds lol)

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with @LogicalDrm - this is a forum.  This is not a social media website.  There are ways to interface with people socially built in (use them perhaps?), you just don't seem to like the format (its not social media'esque enough I guess).  I will leave and not look back if that's what this turned too.  And I guess being here as an Ask Jeeves response about 2-50 questions a week to answer people who come here looking for help is what Im here for (I first came here with no knowledge...now I know a couple things), with the side socialization.  Like, my brother from another mother @TofuHaroto, or the ever awesome to read whatever he posts @DildorTheDecent.  I follow people like @Den-Fi because he gives me inside glimpse into high end hardware, beautiful pictures to look at, and all around has a pretty good knowledge of a lot of things.  

 

Find people you like - make your Social Media needs be created yourself, not rely on the forum to do it for you.

 

 

[gloop]

If you look at this screenshot, 15 out of 23 posts to general discussion were moved. The problem isn't mods being overly aggressive, its that people don't give a sh*t and don't read the rules, or just post at the first subforum instead of actually checking for one.